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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
How I learned to stop worrying and love Survivor Thailand | ||
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Posts: 9784 (07/31/07 6:45 PM) Registered user |
Beatles, ive been lurking here for years and ive always liked your posts. Im not trying to argue for the sake of arguing. By shallow, I meant that its pretty obvious that Kathy has real problems with rocking the boat. she didnt allie with the General,nor did she vote off Amber when she should have. Yet shes viewed as a strategical genius. other favorites like Robc,jon,cirie andboston rob made similar yet smaller mistakes. I strongly dislike underdog edits because their not fun and exploitative. Kathy had some sense,but so did Ryan Aiken, heh. kathy was also arrogant, but not in that charming way like Brian,who can back it up. shes as arrogant as John,but shes the hero because shes a woman and in the minority alliance. Thats not shallow?
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terrysux1234 |
race/alliance | ||
Quote: One protested a bit too much. Sean was always eager to play the race card and Vee used him in this way. They had an alliance from the get go. The early conversation with her on the beach while the others were in the water? While he may deny it, they had a lot in common due to their common race. |
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Jeff P3 |
Re: race/alliance | ||
Quote: Unless you are joking, you really are embarassing yourself. I would fully respond, but Beatles's response basically summed it all up. Thanks Beatles. Quote: Practice what you preach. |
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raidersfantom |
Re: race/alliance | ||
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Two people yelling at each other at a TC doesn't make it explosive, it makes it embarassing, a la Anthony-Rocky.
What are you copy writers for CBS Promotions? Explosive is Ted telling Clay he said racist comments. Explosive is Rupert threatening Fairplay. Your over exaggeration is incredible Quote: Please note how the parts that are emboldened are absolutely contradictory. |
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beatles20147 |
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love Survivor Thailan | ||
Quote: Just because Neleh and Vee didn't play a huge role doesn't mean they weren't involved in the shouting match. I'll concede that Kathy didn't really shout over anyone (she got shouted over a lot though) but I think you oughta rewatch it if you think it's even on the same level as the Rocky/Anthony thing. Quote: No problem, I'm not either, I just enjoy a good debate. I think you have a fair point about Kathy not wanting to rock the boat, and I can't really defend her on the Amber thing, but I think the brilliance of Kathy's strategy was that she attempted to make power plays without shaking things up too much and leaving people out in the cold. You have to admit, after she recovered from a terrible start, she had a fantastic social game. Quote: I don't know, Jon and Boston Rob played so maliciously that I have a hard time calling their mistakes small. Quote: I'm guessing you're referring to Heidik here, but I've gotta be honest, great player for sure but he's one of the least charming guys ever on the show. I didn't really see her being arrogant in Marquesas, but like pretty much everyone else, she did seem to buy into her own hype in ASS. Quote: As arrogant as John? Really? John and Rich are in a playing field all by themselves as far as arrogance goes (on the show at least). There's always going to be double standards with male and female contestants--it's even more evident with TAR fans. But man or woman, I think someone like Kathy would've been a fan favorite and considered one of the best players ever no matter what. |
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RSTClerk |
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I have to agree -
Just spent the week watching Africa, Marquesas, Thailand and Amazon in order.... Thailand was UNBEARABLE to sit through. After the merge I found myself fast forwarding through certain things (something I've never done for any episode of Survivor). It seemed that everyone that made for good TV got booted early. Plus, the second half of the season was just torture to watch. The Pagonging just didn't seem to end. In fact, I think there's still members of Sook Jai being voted out till this day. At least if there's conflict it keeps things interesting, but there was none. Besides Ted, Brian, Clay, and Robb, I can't remember a single thing anyone of the other players said and I finished it 5 hours ago. ....and WHY THE HELL IS SHII-ANH SO POPULAR!?!?!? When watching All-Stars, I assumed she cannibalized everyone in her season since she was the only Thailand rep, but after watching, she had to be one of the dumbest players ever!. Is it because she's Asian and stood out amongst a predominantly white cast? |
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Kirblar |
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She was snarky, one of the only lively people in the season and got ass-fucked by the producers. Jumping to CG at the merge wasn't suicidal, it was her
only option for moving forward in the game.
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AllMenArePeninsulas |
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Thailand definitely had the bad fortune of being stuck in btwn 4 of the best seasons this still aint bad as Figi or Pulau. |
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WylDawg |
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Ahh, the monthly "Thailand wasn't that bad" thread....
For those who hate mactors, theres quite a few older people who were memorable,like Clay,Helen,Jan,Big Ted and Jake.The irony of this board. People bitch against mactors, but also bitch against old farts. Go figure. I think Thailand had one of the most genuine non-mactorish cast of people, which could sadly explain why it sucked so bad. If people are too real, they make for bad TV. Anyways, I too think it was the worst pre-ASS season, but more recent seasons like Palau and Cook Islands have made Thailand look like a frickin' masterpiece editing-wise. The major problem with Thailand is that people didn't seem to wanna play the game. Too many "I don't wanna lie" types, which is why it was such a cakewalk for Brian because he was the only one who had no problem with that. And likely enough, those holier-than-thou people almost deprived him of the win. If Brian was sitting next to anyone else than Clay, people would've just ripped him to shreads with their morality speeches and hand the money over to his final 2 contender. The weaker people on SookJai formed their little club and pretty much thought to themselves "Let's see how far that takes us" We never saw the least bit of strategy coming from that tribe. And the ShiiAnn/Penny rivalry was so out of nowhere. how come they never showed us what happened between those two up until the last 5 minutes before ShiiAnn got booted? Seems to me like it would've been good TV. And then you had Helen and jan turning against eachother at the very end for no apparent reason. The stupidity between those two was painful to watch. |
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growsonwalls |
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Thailand's one of those seasons that's fun to watch in retrospect because it was one of the few times that the best strategist of the game won.
Brian's mind control over Jan and Helen was fun as hell to watch, in retrospect. But while watching it, I kept thinking, god, are these people finally
gonna wise up? And no, they never did. Made the season extremely predictable. Brian's sociopathic personality had its amusing moments (him patting himself
on the back, him sticking up his middle finger, his farewell confessional to Helen ("Cause and effect: you caused this effect") but overall he
didn't have the evil wit of a Dr. Will or even Rich.
Anyway since Thailand, the best strategist of the game has never won. Except for maybe Yul (but don't get me started on Cook Islands). Amazon: RobC PI: Fairplay ASS: Boston Rob Vanuatu: Twila Palau: Ian Guatemala: Rafe EI: Cirie CI: Yul (but as I said, I hate this season with a passion) Fiji: Yau-Man |
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panurge46 |
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Hi GoW:
If only I could agree, it would make Thailand a little more bearable but I don't see it exactly like you: - In Vanuatu, Chris was the best strategist. He needed help but it was the alliances he set up very early with Sarge, Twila and Julie and the paranoia he stirred in the women that got him to the end. Twila was parroting moves from Scout but those moves were very detrimental to Twila. It's easy to make moves that will make everyone hate you. I don't consider those moves as strategic as they forget to look at the big picture, the end goal: The jury votes. - In Palau, Tom and Ian shared the same plan: Going to the F3 together and the challenge winner was to take Kathie to the end. Tom knew he had a mental edge over Ian as early as episode #3 when he convinced the hesitant kid to go shark hunting. I'd say that would make Tom the best strategist of Palau even if it wasn't strategy that was the key factor to his win. - In Guatemala, Rafe had a very original strategy of getting rid of every goat that was allied to Steph until she became the goat herself. Everyone considered Rafe as Steph's lap dog except Danni who saw what he was doing. She also saw the flaw in that plan and she reversed the trap, turning Rafe's strategy to her advantage. I'd say that makes her an equally good strategist. - I'm happily surprised that you recognize Cirie's strategy! Aras recognizing Cirie's usefulness very early on and changing the boot order was very smart. A strategist can use the plans of others. It doesn't make him the best plan maker but it does make him the most opportunistic strategist. That also is important. - Yul was a strategist even if the twists made it so that he didn't need to use much of it. Lets leave it at that. - Earl was a great strategist in Fiji. He used the shelter building to recognize who had leadership tendencies (Sylvia, Alex, Mookie and Rocky mainly) and who followed directions (Boo, Yau and Cassandra). He used his island explorations to see who would follow him (Dreamz, Erica, Michelle, Stacy and Anthony) After only three days, he knew who he could trust and who he had to keep an eye on. Isn't that the most important factor in Survivor? His plan never wavered even if he lost many followers along the way. I agree Yau wasn't bad but his strategy revolved too much around the HII. Earl had plans with and without the idol, making him better. In fact, I consider Earl as one of the best strategist ever. So, you see, I'd say that since Thailand, the best strategist won 6 times. (even if I'm stretching it in the case of Aras) Not bad. |
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RSTClerk |
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"He used the shelter building to recognize who had leadership tendencies (Sylvia, Alex, Mookie and Rocky mainly) and who followed directions (Boo, Yau and
Cassandra). He used his island explorations to see who would follow him (Dreamz, Erica, Michelle, Stacy and Anthony) After only three days, he knew who he
could trust and who he had to keep an eye on. Isn't that the most important factor in Survivor? "
Did he ever confirm this or are you just assuming? |
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Pulau Tiga |
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panurge46 wrote:His alliance with Sarge was a factor of idiotic play from the younger men and irrational behavior from Travis. Chris was Sarge's back-up when the younger guys refused to start playing the game too hard. And Chris didn't do anything to pull in Rory or Travis. They pulled themselves in because of their own fears. Chris was thrown into a great position early on because of the players around him. His alliance with Julie and Twila was what landed him in a 6-4 minority post-merge situation. I'll give him credit for maintaing a bond with Julie, but he was the idiot that went and played that bond unecessarily later in the game. He didn't cause paranoia within the women. Twila was paranoid the whole damn game, and Leann's stupid decision to cut Scout out was what caused the game-changing shift in power. Twila never trusted her alliances and she was close with Scout, so when Scout got the shaft, Twila followed her. And Scout took that chance to better her game position. Chris was just a pawn in that. I do agree that Twila is an overrated player, but I also think Ami, Julie, and Scout were just as capable strategists as Chris was (and perhaps better overall players). She also saw the flaw in that plan and she reversed the trap, turning Rafe's strategy to her advantage. I'd say that makes her an equally good strategist.She saw the kind of plays she needed to make to go deeper into the game, but she put all of her faith in the final IC and I do believe her decision to cut Rafe was a last-minute choice, not one she had been planning to do the whole time. Rafe was running the show the whole time, and while he ultimately made a mistake in planning the Final 3 challenge situation, his social and strategic domination more than makes up for that against someone like Danni, who was a decent player who did what she needed to in order to win but failed to really capitalize on her position quite as well as she could have. Aras recognizing Cirie's usefulness very early on and changing the boot order was very smart.Not so sure about that. Aras planned to go up against Cirie and lose to her. That's not good play. I don't see why he would want someone with a superior social and strategic game going deep into the season. He respected Cirie and chose to lose to her, he wasn't using her strategy against her. Cirie was a far better player than he was. He used the shelter building to recognize who had leadership tendencies (Sylvia, Alex, Mookie and Rocky mainly) and who followed directions (Boo, Yau and Cassandra). He used his island explorations to see who would follow him (Dreamz, Erica, Michelle, Stacy and Anthony)Where in the world did you hear that? If that's actually the case, I'm more than willing to give him credit for it, but it sounds like something that you're just speculating about. Earl found out about early game dynamics through Dreamz, who was already turning on people on Day 1. His plan never wavered even if he lost many followers along the way.Earl knew what he was doing. His plan, however, was simply destined to fail. He was setting up the game in a way that guaranteed Yau Man the win. Yau outplayed him at every turn. While Earl was organizing things on Ravu, Yau was positioning himself to have incredible options as the game progressed. While Earl was establishing alliance dynamics, Yau was using those dynamics to his advantage to position himself better than Earl. Losing Michelle hurt Yau's game, not Earl's, because it forced a F4 where Earl could turn on him and Yau could be at risk. So Yau went and countered that by making his car deal with Dreamz. And it absolutely would have worked if things (including the F3 twist) hadn't come together exactly as they did. Yau wasn't bad but his strategy revolved too much around the HII. Earl had plans with and without the idol, making him better.Thanks to some snooping from Alex/Mookie, Yau had to work around the HII, whereas Earl was free to have the benefit of the HII without the risk. Not that it was a problem for Yau - he kept people at bay and correctly determined the point when fear of the HII would make him a target. Earl had no idea how to play that, and Yau did. But even when you take away that front of the game and simply concentrate on how things were planned out, Yau has the advantage. Because Earl's plans, while decent, almost guaranteed Yau would win. And Yau knew that. And that's why Yau was the better player. Not only did he understand the HII better than Earl, his plans were far better and he countered every attempt Earl made to help his own position. The best player has won this game 5 times: Borneo, Australia, Thailand, Palau, and Cook Islands. |
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WylDawg |
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A LTS thread that slipped from the original topic and has now turned into a general discussion about random tidbits from any random season????
Well I never! |
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panurge46 |
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PT: There's just a few points I want to address:
Chris was Sarge's back-up when the younger guys refused to start playing the game too hard.If you go on Survivor and one of your teammates goes by the name of Sarge, you should realize he'll want to lead. Chris was smart to use the Army Man to his advantage from the start.
You have to be kidding, right? Rory was dead without Chris. Travis knew who was the mastermind because it was to Chris that he whispered: "Think of the merge". He didn't cause paranoia within the women.Watch again. After merge, Chris and Chad started by targeting Eliza then used Eliza as bait, telling Ami and Leann that Scout and Twila wanted to vote out Eliza. That stirred the paranoia just enough to get an opening. In my opinion, Chris played the same deceitful game as Brian did. He had as many secret F2 alliances as Brian had but Chris had to pull it off without the numbers advantage. Aras...wasn't using her strategy against herI never said he was. Cirie was like the offensive line who made all the blocks and Aras was left to carry the ball in the opening, all the way to the end zone. He still was the one, along with Danielle, who saw how useful Cirie was and kept her on the team. He feared he would lose to Cirie against the jury but those fears were unwarranted. Aras would've won anyway. Earl talked about the shelter building alliance and Dreamz confirmed the early 5 person alliance, I'm not speculating. Earl was very observant. I disagree that he set up Yau to win. The way Earl set up the game, Yau needed to win the supposed F3 immunity or else Dreamz and Earl were the F2. Yau's car deal was smart but still wanting to boot Dreamz after finding out about the F3 twist was incredibly dumb. I'm sorry Wyldawg. I thought pointing out that Thailand wasn't to be credited as being one of the few seasons that saw a strategist win was still on topic. |
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grendl2000 |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: I agree with this. But I do think there is a difference between the first time you watch a season and the repeats. The first time through, I liked Africa better than Thailand, because it was the first season to have a real twist, and the Survivor experience, as a viewer, was still pretty new. Watching the shows in reruns, though, when you know how things are going to turn out, Thailand was much more interesting. |
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growsonwalls |
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Oh god. We're ranking the winners again. Time for me to exit stage right.
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panurge46 |
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Well, you were ranking losers!!
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RavuRules |
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There is definitely something to be said about the long-term viewability of a season. My opinions constantly fluctuate upon watching and re-watching each season. I think Guatemala is the season that my opinion has changed the most on. PI just gets better and better each time I watch it |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 1266 (10/01/07 7:23 AM) Registered user |
Question. I've heard around here that the "all time worst episode" os survivor was ep 8 of survivor 5. I was just watching it last night, and I thought it was great. The piss cave was hilarious, and I thought Helen talking about recipes day and night was hilarious. we saw them interacting with eachother, and saw much of the tribes personality quirks. What the hell made it so bad? |
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