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Well then that's Yul's own fault for choosing to align with someone like Candice over someone like Cecilia or Sundra or Flica.

Except his options were limited to begin with thanks to bad luck game factors. Namely:
(1) 4 tribe twist which created more divisions and gave people more jumping options than usual
(2) Having to depend on 1st tribe ally partially bad luck factor Cao Boi


Becky/Yul WERE considering Cecilia and Sundra as shown in Episode 3. Except Cao Boi tried to save his own butt by throwing Becky under the bus to Cecilia/Ozzy. So that creates an awkward dynamic between Cecilia/Ozzy/Sundra/Flicka/Cao Boi and Yul/Becky/Jonathan. In a tribe of 9, which each individual potentially jumping to their original tribe if things don't go perfectly for them, Yul HAD to depend on at least 5 individuals for majority. So a person is bound to align with a couple of bad apples who are sneaky like Candice and able to hide their true alliance motives. It's not the same as the normal 2 tribes that start off with lesser complications. That is 1 of the many reasons why I say Yul had a lot worse luck than many of the winners

What was amazing about his social gameplay was that he managed to make 2 people in the relative minority of the tribe Ozzy and Sundra feel comfortable enough in their game positions where they didn't jump in the mutiny even when Candice and Jonathan did, and Candice had even talked about strategic matters with Sundra ahead of time

For Chris, I don't think that it was much of a mistake in hindsight (also I still don't think Rafe did any thing wrong), but I'd much rather have a 100% chance to go to the finals rather than a 33% chance.

I don't think Chris did too much wrong. Julie and Twila were like Candice. Cunning and good at hiding their motives. If Chris made a mistake in alliance choices and player management it was not keeping someone like John closer, but sometimes, it's better to side with newly swapped over enemies like Julie/Twila like Danni did on Blake (which made Gary loyal to her). It also tends to gives you more moral leverage, which tends to make people feel sorry for you, underestimate you, etc.

Of course looking at his competition, you can switch that around, but I think that he'd beat anyone just for being an underdog (even against Eliza he has the two guys, Scout and Twila).

Eliza might have gotten Sarge's vote. Sarge seems like his vote was largely determined on who broke their word to him and was big on integrity. The reason why Chris got his vote was because Twila had backstabbed Sarge even more, and Chris did very well in his jury management. Eliza would've been a different case. In any case, I don't think Chris made any notable severe blunders that I can think of. Perhaps small ones, but nothing that any of the other winners didn't do. It's impossible to have a completely flawless game. The more flawless it is, the more likely good luck is involved too

By the way, I'd like to bring up a point. When you think about it, Brian, Tom, and to a lesser extent played the emotion card a lot like Amanda did in their FTC performances. I think gender makes a huge difference in terms of what FTC strategy you should take. Whereas guys may benefit from showing a softer side, women likely need to present themselves as stronger, decisive forces. Even Amber was more game-centered in her jury talks while being diplomatic

For Danni, I said that she is the only winner that absolutely had to win immunity at any point during the game (or else they were leaving) that was put in a bad position due to bad luck and not from her own screw ups.

Yup. That's why I ranked her highly

And guys, I apologize for starting this up again by posting that shit in another thread.

There's nothing to apologize for. Debates are fine as long as they don't devolve into personal attacks. Obviously, you saw me deriding Quiddity and the haters in the other thread, but if you look at the posts in this thread, he did start it. Not to say it's so great that I act like a child back at him, but I'm not one to take shit here at Sucks

Sometimes, I read things that are simply not true and force me to comment:


That paragraph simply distorts facts to reinforce Yul's case.

Well since you're clearly not going to be objective about this and already clearly are accusing me of having a "case" then why even fake like you're trying to have a logical debate? It's just more Panurge46 trying to dethrone Yul from #1, because he prefers to see someone like Danni up there

Candice really started denigrating Jonathan only AFTER the mutiny. Lets look at what really happened in Aitu as far as the alliance was concerned:

I love this. Wrong. It makes me laugh when someone makes an utter fool of themselves bashing other people before they get their facts straight and then look doubly stupid. Wrong and unethical--nice combo. Anyways, in the episodes themselves, we know that the girls thought Jonathan was sneaky, and that Yul gave several confessionals where EVERYONE else but him (hmmm, guess that includes Candice) thought he was untrustworthy

Becky also clarified in post-game interviews that part of the reason why they heavily suspected Jon was likely because Candice threw him under the bus so much. Given how she did the same in new Raro, this seems highly likely. Whether she did that as a distancing tactic to hide their alliance and/or because she truly didn't trust him is up to debate

Episode #3: Forming an alliance:
Becky "Would you trust Jonathan, trust him enough to come into an alliance with you?"
Candice "He's a really nice guy, very competitive, very smart and he hasn't done anything shady."

The "Jonathan is sneaky" accusations were made mostly AFTER that episode. Nice try though

Episode #6
On Plan Voodoo:
Yul (in confessional was already plotting against Jonathan) "Cowboy believes that Jonathan has the HII so Plan Voodoo would split our votes between Jonathan and Candice... neither Jon or Candice have the idol, I have it but it's a great plan to break down Jonathan's alliance with members of his original white tribe."

You're such a spin doctor. Yul DIDN'T go with Plan Voodoo. Actions speak louder than words. Yul ran the scenario of turning on Jonathan, he didn't actually go through with it and instead sacrificed Cao Boi to stay true to the Aitutaki alliance. He ran the scenario and the possibility and also he's speaking from Cao Boi's POV not simply an anti-Jonathan POV. Yul was 1 of Jonathan's biggest protectors and allies--probably the biggest

Sundra (also plotting against Jonathan in confessional): "Cowboy has this theory that the white alliance is going to take over the game so we need to get them out. Maybe it's a good idea cause I'm suspicious of Jonathan."

Interesting how you interpret that. "Plotting against Jonathan in confessional". It actually sounds like Sundra is kind of dubious to Cao Boi's racially based theory and giving them the benefit of the doubt--which of course was a mistake . Sundra and everyone on Aitu suspected Jonathan of being crafty but it's a stretch to be painting Sundra as this Jonathan-disposing mastermind pre-mutiny and playing some sort of aggressive role in scapegoating him. Ozzy, Flicka, and Cao Boi were shown doing that more. The edit also mentioned how the "girls" (most likely the Armpit Alliance) distrusted him. Post-game interviews explained that Sundra/Candice were closer than Jonathan/Candice, which indicates that Candice had a definite role in Jonathan's 4th wheel replacement

Becky speaking to Yul: "I don't trust Jonathan; he's crafty. I don't know if you ever see him, he's always trying to catch everybody's eye and make you feel some bond with him. He's always, you know, very like that. So, just keep that in mind"


Then:
Yul (in confessional) "I'm in a tight alliance with Becky, Jonathan, Candice and Sundra although now I'm not sure; the girls were talking like they want to vote off Jonathan. For whatever reason he inspires some level of mistrust among everyone. They think he's playing the game very, very hard and their suspicion of Jonathan is starting to rub off on me a little bit. [If] Everyone holds a universal degree of suspicion about Jonathan and maybe I should too."

I bolded the part you conveniently didn't focus on. Clearly, Yul was the one who was not the instigator in scapegoating Jonathan. Given that Candice had a F2 deal with Jonathan that HE thought was real, and revealed post-game that Sundra was more her ally, it's clear that Candice was very much a participant in that whole deal. You should know this by now as we've talked about this. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just don't know all the facts

Episode #7 : Yul and Becky Ostracizing Jonathan :
Flica had just said she wished to have been clued in on CB's vote in front of the kidnapped Nate.
Yul, Becky and Candice had a pow-wow:
Candice: Flica is going crazy…We need to come up with a story."
Yul: "The thing I don't like is that she did it in front of Nate."
Candice: "We have to know our top three to vote off. I feel more comfortable if we have a third so, within our 5 we don't blow up."
Yul: "I think we should stick with the same plan but in terms of order it would be Ozzy, Flica, followed by, Humm."
Becky, directly at Candice(as if she already knew Yul's answer): "Who would you rather compete in individual immunity, Sundra or Jonathan?"
Yul: "Jonathan before Sundra?"
Candice: Yeah."

I don't see Candice fighting or objecting to this arrangement. And given that we know Candice was closer to Sundra than Jonathan and the "girls" were talking smack about him and influencing Yul's opinion of him, then it's most likely that Yul was trying to appease Candice in this move, since she didn't want shady a F2 partner like Jonathan in the Aitu F4 alliance

By the way, despite your loaded words, "strategically marginalizing" is not the same as "ostracizing". "Ostracizing" is more what Raro did to Jonathan. Jonathan liked Aitu and had issues with Raro and it was the way they managed him socially. Given that Yul was the 1 defending him in confessionals, it's pretty clear that Yul was going along with what he felt was what his F3 alliance wanted versus strongarming Candice's strategic options by replacing Jonathan with Sundra. If that was his intentions, he wouldn't have let go of Cao Boi BEFORE Flicka or Candice/Jonathan, because that gave original Raro more numbers over just Becky and himself in their tribe. Yul's strategy was to make concessions and give people rational strategic reasons to stick with their alliance for ALL their sakes up to a certain point. If was more team and game-theory-centered than how most Survivors play

- Ozzy, Flica and Candice also had a pow-wow before the IC:
Ozzy: "Lets say we did have to go to TC and we did have to vote someone out…"
Candice: "I don't know, what do you guys think?"
Flica: "Well, the number 1 issue is that none of us trust Jonathan. He's just like the gears are always turning with him and it kinda makes us uneasy."
Ozzy: "I think that we could honestly make the strongest alliance because you two are the strongest girls."
Candice: "Three doesn't make anything."
Flica: "I think we can work it."
Ozzy: "If there's two other people, like Yul and Becky there also or if it was us and Sundra. I want you to know that you can trust me. If I do end up leaving… then what are you guys going to eat."

If, as you claim, Candice wanted to throw Jonathan under the bus, she had the perfect opportunity. In fact she could have been in Parvati's Micronesia situation, Yul and Becky on one side, Ozzy and Flica on the other with her in the middle. What did she do?

How is this a perfect opportunity? She said it herself, 3 doesn't make anything. And she already had an alliance, and 1 that had protected her the round RIGHT before this episode I might add. Cao Boi was gunning after her AND Jonathan, and who protected her? Yul/Becky/Sundra, who could've easily just booted her off with Cao Boi/Flicka/Ozzy in their pocket

I didn't mean that Candice wanted to completely get Jonathan kicked out of the game. She just wanted him marginalized or put herself over him on the totem pole. Which is what she accomplished both on 2nd Aitutaki and on mutiny Raro

First, she had a confessional: "There's been a debate between Jessica, Jonathan and Ozzy, who we should send home first. Ozzy does bring home a lot of food… Jessica drives people crazy just with the constant paranoïa and Jonathan, I think is on the cusp in our alliance because, from the very beginning, people have said they don't trust him, there not sure blah, blah, blah (Note: she doesn't say "I don't trust him". Note also that, in the very beginning, Candice vouched for Jonathan's character.)

I didn't see her vouching for his character in the talks with Ozzy/Flicka or trying to keep him as the alliance's 4th in her talk with Becky/Yul. I heard that the "girls" didn't trust Jonathan, as Becky reported to Yul (the only way this doesn't include Candice is if she's lying or if she's talking strictly about Flicka/Sundra). And she was stringing Jonathan along as a fake F2 ally, while wanting to go back to Parvati/Adam with SUNDRA. Her words post-game--not mine

Becky also had a confessional: "Ozzy, he's awesome in challenges and today was a very important indicator the fact that Jonathan sat out. Obviously, we lost but, at the same time in the big picture, we didn't really need him… If none of us trust him, why is he still here?"

Then, instead of going behind his back, Candice warned Jonathan after his fishing expedition: "I don't know if you're feeling the funky vibe in camp."
Jonathan reasoned: "It's the decision. Do we think it's gonna go one or two more challenges before the merge? In which case it might make sense to keep Ozzy around… So, maybe the choice is Flica."

That is some major twisting. You're really off on that one. Candice was referring to Flicka being an annoying scrambler, not people trying to scapegoat Jonathan with Candice coming to his rescue

Then, it was Ozzy that had the final dig at Jonathan with Yul:
Yul: "Do you see him like a potential competitor after the merge? Is that why you want to get rid of him?"
Ozzy: "It's not so much as a competitor but as somebody who's always plotting and scheming."
Yul: "You don't trust him."
Ozzy: "I just don't trust him because he doesn't give any information. He's always the one to ask."

Yul (in confessional): "Jonathan seems to inspire some level of mistrust among pretty much everybody. If you talk to anybody, they feel he is a gamer."/

Did Yul go with that? Nope. He didn't even fake agree with Ozzy and go like, "Yeah. He is"

I've also read most of the interviews, seen all the Insider clips and your stance that it was Candice who baited Yul and Becky to ostracize Jonathan doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Maybe you can post them here. I haven't looked at them for awhile so perhaps you're right. However, given the knowledge that Candice was more true to Sundra over Jonathan, it doesn't make sense for Candice to feel more threatened by Sundra replacing Jonathan as their 4th. It sounds completely accomodating

Quite the opposite, the edit made it evident that all of Aitu turned on Candice's ally.

Except Jonathan WASN'T Candice's ally even according to her. Or he was 1 of her many allies, but not a priority one. She said in post-game interviews that she was shocked he mutinied with her and expected Sundra to be the one to jump. She'd had talks with her and Nate when he was kidnapped of joining with them later. She said she turned around during the mutiny and faced Sundra indicating, "Come on! Jump!". And Sundra didn't. If you watch that episode, this is verified

(Yul even talked of breaking up the possibility of a Caucasian alliance. That couldn't have been part of Candice's plan).

Except obviously that wasn't his intention, since he went after Cao Boi that same round, and I'm pretty sure he was speaking from the POV of Cao Boi's plan--Not trying to destroy his own F5 alliance plan

All this open scheming gave her reason to doubt her own alliance, making the mutiny a viable option.

Open scheming WITH your allies is normal and it's bad NOT to do that. If people aren't scheming WITH you, then the natural assumption is that they're doing it AGAINST you. Additionally, she had no issues scheming with Raro, so this just demonstrates your biases once again