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 Monkey Worshipah |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 4038 (06/17/05 6:28 PM) Registered User |
I completely DISAGREE with you Circuit. While Season 7 was one of the weaker seasons, the only person who didn't want to be there was SMG. She is the reason the show ended, everyone else looked happy to be there day in and day out.
The one thing I do agree with you on is Kennedy. She sucked terrible balls. But that was a damn good way to end the series. |
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Yeaster |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 7679 (06/17/05 6:32 PM) Registered User |
Kennedy was another one I hated...but not as much as Riley.
And you all are saying how much Willow/Tara were forced together...Willow/Kennedy was much worse. |
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Cory the Spoiler Slayer |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 1351 (06/17/05 7:22 PM) Registered user |
Cordy's character came full circle in Season Five of Angel ("You're Welcome") but with her exit in Season Four, it just seemed that Joss had clearly not discovered a way to cross Cordy into W&H, and he wanted to focus on Illyria (we all realize that the Illyria storyline began as a six-part episode that would have occured for midseason, but the WB was against the character, right?). Cordy's exit was brilliantly done, and her death seemed justified. Angel's quick moving on... not so much. You could tell that "You're Welcome" was written out of sequence and the Lindsey scene was added later (with Angel sleeping with Nina in "Power Play" and all).
As far the final season of Buffy goes, I still love "Conversations with Dead People" and "Selfless" and I've grown to appreciate "Storyteller," but it was probably the weakest of the six twenty-two episode seasons. I thought it's conclusions sucked, and some of the deaths were out in left field. Anya's death had no reaction from anybody but Xander... and it just showed that he had nobody else in his life. That was the closure to a character we had for seven years. He gets to mourn the girl he loved. Sad. grim. pizzathetic. For Willow, the writing team made a terrible mistake. Joss could have easily asked Amber to come back for an episode, and we could have seen Willow use her new magic to enter the afterlife with Tara, where at least they could have been together happily. YAY!!!!11oneone!!11 Faith's exit was well done and simple, and I was cool with the fucking annoying recurring seventh season characters all dying (I like to imagine that they all died, despite their lives being spared for idiotic reasoning). Dawn's character was shifted to the side after the sixth season ANYWAY, so her exit came with her finally realizing she wasn't standing in Buffy's shadow all along, and she loved her sister (Buffy promising Dawn she'd make it out alive). I always thought the series would end with Buffy cornered by a bunch of big baddies as she's finally ganged-up on, Giles throws her his sword and while she's able to save herself, he dies in the process. I would have loved our first sacrificial death in the entire series. I guess Buffy just lacked that (and I'm not counting Buffy for Dawn, because Buffy came back!), which completely sucks. I just needed one of the core characters to die, I guess. Anya dying seemed like a major farce, but Caulfield wanted out, so I guess she fucked over the writers in the end. I think that the Angel ending was much better than the Buffy ending. Buffy's neverending battle ended. Angel's neverending battle didn't, which was a gazillion times better. Cory out. :) |
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alexineruby |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 3798 (06/17/05 7:36 PM) Registered user |
The major flaw was Dawn was "the key." She was never really anyone's sister and older than time. What does she end up being? A valley girl? what a rather mundane final outcome for an entity that was larger than life. It was STUPID and totally unbelievable. I kept expecting an episode that would have Dawn exiting to her heretofore more glorious existance. What on earth happened? She became and ORDINARY girl?????? Ridiculous!
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gaelgirl |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 126 (06/17/05 7:42 PM) Registered user |
Count me in as one of the people who thought the Tara/Willow relationship came out of nowhere and invalidated the character a lot in my eyes. I hated Tara at first, but I actually liked the character before they killed her off.
However, Willow had that huge thing about having a crush on Xander for years and years, then the whole Oz relationship. Suddenly she's gay? I think most people are fairly aware by the time they are having sex whether or not they are gay or not. It just seemed to be out of nowhere for me. Anya should have been gay -- that would have been hilarious (although I guess it could be construed as a cliche). Dawn. Giles. Xander could have worked (covered his gayness by pretending to be interested in all these women, but still it would have been just as nonsensical as Willow). Faith! Plus, if Willow weren't gay, Kennedy never would have the opportunity to ruin every scene she was in. Conversations with Dead People was an awesome episode, one of my favorites. The Graduation year season was probably my favorite. I loved Spike and his character progression (especially with the flashbacks and stuff). I thought Dawn was annoying and could have really been a good character, but they didn't go that route. I loved Anya, she was probably my favorite character on the show. I, too, was pissed she and Xander didn't get married. Anyway... |
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restrictedShadow |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 14941 (06/17/05 10:52 PM) Registered User |
Quote: Yep, I completely agree. Dawn should have been done with once Glory was killed off and Buffy sacrificed herself. In the later seasons, the scooby gang got to be too big. The early seasons with just the core of Willow, Buffy, Giles, and Xander were always the best ones. |
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knagaroo(d) |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 112 (06/17/05 11:20 PM) |
Quote: Joss did ask Amber to come back for season 7. She refused because she was "very protective of Tara" and "didnt like the idea of Tara being the first evil" |
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froggymeru |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 9040 (06/17/05 11:39 PM) Registered user |
I completely agree on Anya's death. When I watched the season finale, I was sorta like "wtf?" and had to watch that scene again it happened so fast. And we didn't even see a reaction from anyone else. The one thing that SMG has complained about in every interview that I completely agree with is that the finale should have been 2 hours. Its just necessary for a show with as much backstory as Buffy. Everything felt so rushed.
I actually liked Tara, I just totally couldn't stand Kennedy. The whole potential Slayer thing was cool for a while, but there was just way too much focus. They should have just brought Andrew on as a main character instead of having him and ten of those sluts always floating about for a few minutes each per episode. It took so much time away from the core characters which was really depressing. My problem with Season Six was that Giles left. I like the season, I just missed Giles. And yes, what the hell happened to Giles' gf? Olivia I think. Anyone know the story on why she would randomly pop up and disappear. Oh, and R.I.P. Jenny Calendar. Those episodes were so sad. But when she randomly turned into an Olympic sprinter and dashed around the high school, I definitely laughed. |
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restrictedShadow |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 14941 (06/18/05 12:06 AM) Registered User |
Quote: Yep. Passion is one of my favorite episodes and proved that anyone could die on this show at any time. I remember Joss wanted to to put the character of Jesse in the opening credits of the very first episode to make people think he was a regular on the show only to have him killed off in that episode. |
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CircuitJunkie |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 57 (06/18/05 12:49 AM) |
Oooooo.. how about some Buffy trivia. ;)
Anybody remember the two episodes where the opening credits were modified for that episode alone? Hm.. I think there were only two, maybe theres more. |
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All Kiwi Boy |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 263 (06/18/05 2:33 AM) Registered user |
Once More With Feeling was one of those, I think. The episode that Tara died... Amber Benson was was added to the credits. I think. Maybe. I dunno. It's been a while since I've seen the episodes. ;)
I remember thinking the Kennedy/Willow relationship was a tad pathetic, but for some reason I didn't mind Tara/Willow. I think Amber Bensons eyes made everything about their relation A.O.K to me. |
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CircuitJunkie |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 57 (06/18/05 5:14 AM) |
Yeah, theres more than two. lol. I forgot about "Once More, With Feeling"
Sweet = Cool antagonist |
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CoconutPhone |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 17749 (06/18/05 6:16 AM) Registered user |
"Superstar" also had different opening credits.
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 pjadedd |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 10556 (06/18/05 7:09 AM) Registered User |
Death is interesting on Buffy because after you die, you're practically forgotten (at least after the season is over). Xander and Jesse were best friends and he was never mentioned, Giles never referenced Jenny, etc. I think season 7 could've been used a lot for recollection, references, etc. We could've seen Xander talking to Anya about Jesse, Willow explaining to Kennedy how she loved Oz and then Tara (maybe shedding some more light on her progression to realizing she's gay). Then, Buffy and Giles could talk to the Potentials about love (Jenny and Angel) and loss (Kendra, Jenny, etc). With the season 7 titles, I think "Storyteller" could've been used for that (maybe they all could've been discussed on Andrew's movie). I just think it would've been some nice closure.
If everyone could've come back for season 7, Conversations with Dead People, in my opinion, could've been a great 2-hour event. You had Buffy/Parker, Willow/Tara (I'm saying this as if Amber would've shown up), and Dawn/Joyce. You could've also had Xander/Jesse (which I read they had considered), Anya/Hallie, Andrew/Jonathan (screw Warren, I liked Jonathan more), Spike/Dru (which was done later) and Giles/Jenny (everyone knew he was returning even though this episode was before he came back). |
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angela8675 |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 865 (06/18/05 11:43 PM) Registered User |
Quote: Superstar and OMWF, definitely, but does The Body count? There weren't any opening credits in that ep (not the normal "theme song/cast name and pics" thing, anyway.) |
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Cory the Spoiler Slayer |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 1351 (06/19/05 8:17 AM) Registered user |
Quote: I know, but I meant as the real Tara... not Tara as the first. I still love Amber, but I can't help but be resentful that it seemed weak to me that the First would have the sympathy to not put Tara out to see Willow. I would have rather them done an in-depth episode where we learn the other restrictions to who the First can copy. Maybe those who are "trapped" between the afterlife or something, I dunno. I just think that we could have had a Tara/Willow reunion (not with Tara as the First) that would have set a better ending for the series. |
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Cory the Spoiler Slayer |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 1351 (06/19/05 8:19 AM) Registered user |
Quote: Olivia was only in 'The Freshman' and another episode in Season Four, before her dream sequence in 'Restless.' After that, we never heard about her again. |
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pjadedd |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 10556 (06/19/05 8:33 AM) Registered User |
Olivia was in "Hush." My guess is that she lived in England and was maybe just visiting Giles. After he left, maybe they spent time together.
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restrictedShadow |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 14941 (06/25/05 7:19 PM) Registered User |
Ok, so I just finished the seventh season today. I watched seasons 1-7 in a little over a month.
In the end, one of my favorite shows ever. Sad that I missed it during its initial run, but I'll be picking up all sevens seasons to own sometime shortly. My general comments on the entire series are pretty much in line with most peoples. The high school years were definitely the best with the core group of Willow/Xander/Giles being in the spotlight. The later seasons had brilliant episodes, but it seemed like they tried to introduce too many new characters only to have them end up being wasted (i.e. Riley). Joss has stated that the central theme of Buffy is that "high school is hell" and growing up is harder than battling demons. I think this theme was somewhat lost during the later seasons in which the show become much more about just battling demons. So, for today, my ranking of the seven seasons stands as thus: 1. Season 2 - this is when Buffy hit its stride. The Angle/Buffy relationship was front and center and Angel turning bad was a brilliant plot twist. Angelus/Spike/Dru made for the best big bad of them all and even the non-story arc related episodes from this season were great (Halloween being one of my favorites). 2. Season 3 - Very close to being my favorite, and maybe after rewatching the series again, it will be. The Mayor was deliciously evil, Faith was a great foil to Buffy, and the writing and acting was as strong as ever. 3. Season 5 - The best season of the later years. It was a nice twist having Buffy battle a god instead of a demon and it took balls for Joss to kill her off at the end, even if she was ressurected in season 6. My main problem with this season was Dawn. Never liked Trachtenberg, and all she proved to be was a whiny attention whore. I think a much more interesting twist would have been to make Xander the key. This way they wouldn't have introduced an entirely new unlikable character and it could have played into Xander's whole fear of being the useless one of the group. 4. Season 1 - a short and fun season. Looking back, this season had a much more upbeat and fun tone to it than the later seasons. A lot of people complain that season 1 was filled with too many "monster of the week" episodes, but I think it works. It did a good job of setting up the scooby gang dynamic and introduces us to great characters. 5. Season 6 - very dark and depressing season. A lot of people didn't like all the drama and the fact that there was no big bad demon this season. I liked the gang having to deal with real life problems though, and thought it made for a very realistic season. Plus, the trio served as both great comic relief (in a season that desperately needed some) and as a good reminder that power corrupts. 6. Season 7 - Not as bad as some people claim. Maybe its because I had my expectations somewhat lowered. I didn't particularly like the potentials as it introduced too many new characters for a show in its last season. I also didn't like the fact that the series ended with Buffy basically returning to normal girl life. The First was a decent big bad, though, and I like how it brought the entire series full circle. 7. Season 4 - With the move to college, the series lost some of the charm it had with the high school setting. That, and too many new, uninteresting new characters were introduced. I liked Anya and thought she filled the void left by Cordelia nicely, but I never liked Riley. Adam was too boring of a big bad, though, and the show seemed to shift from fantasy to sci-fi with the introduction of the initiative. |
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Cory the Spoiler Slayer |
Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer | ||
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Posts: 1351 (06/25/05 7:39 PM) Registered user |
I don't think that Buffy's later seasons stopped the signal (Firefly reference) at all. I think the sixth season had too much of the metaphor that growing-up is harder than the demon fighting. I think that when that swallowed the show whole (season six) the show took a turn for the worst, and when Joss completely ditched it (season seven) it hit rock bottom.
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