The American Idol culture war (Bill O'Reilly wins Idol!)

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IReallyHaveNoIdea		#161	[-]
Posts: 4421 (05/30/09 9:22 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Adam has charmed even Bill O'Reilly, who gave him the "No Spin Zone Good Gay American" stamp of approval: O'Reilly: Now, it's important to remember that most gay Americans and their supporters are not zealots. Here's a good example. [Idolatry clip] Slezak: Did you see the Bill O'Reilly segment about you? Adam: I did. I got a little nervous when it started, I was like "great, that's great." But then the two female correspondents they had on the show were really supportive, so . . . whatever. O'Reilly: "Whatever." Now, Mr. Lambert could have taken a shot at us, but he did not, perhaps because we have been fair about his situation and on the gay marriage issue in general. BOR is just an imbecile, though. His rant about how his First Amendment rights are being violated is just -worthy. Loved Slezak's take: UPDATE: Color me plum surprised! O'Reilly actually praised Adam for his Idolatry comment that TOF's two female contributors gave him props during the telecast in question. But riddle me this: If O'Reilly wants us to believe he truly operates in a "no-spin" zone, how come he neglected to air any of Adam's Idolatry quotes that could've been construed as critical or mocking of the Fox News host? Also, dude needs a serious education about First Amendment.
The Smoking Nun		#162	[-]
Posts: 2870 (05/30/09 9:35 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite
meerkats		#163	[-]
Posts: 1110 (05/30/09 10:22 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	seaguy wrote: Cofirmation of what I've speculated for weeks now. I think Kris is the nicest and most sincere contestant they've ever had on this show. No doubt. I seriously adore his sweetness. I love what he said about Adam so much...I hope he does inspire people.
Blatantly Oblivious		#164	[-]
Posts: 342 (05/30/09 10:59 AM) I don't get most of the jokes Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Both of these boys are quite naturally charming and engaging - honestly - who could not love them.
eraserhead19		#165	[-]
Posts: 546 (05/30/09 11:52 AM) Fantardus Überdramaticus Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Blatantly Oblivious wrote: Both of these boys are quite naturally charming and engaging - honestly - who could not love them. there aren't any people on here who hate Kris. Hating Kris would be like saying you hate puppies, babies and rainbows. Adam on the other hand? he's got some serious haters even though he's as genuinely sweet and nice as Kris.
Drew B		#166	[-]
Posts: 5544 (05/30/09 1:31 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	eraserhead19 wrote: Blatantly Oblivious wrote: Both of these boys are quite naturally charming and engaging - honestly - who could not love them. there aren't any people on here who hate Kris. Hating Kris would be like saying you hate puppies, babies and rainbows. Adam on the other hand? he's got some serious haters even though he's as genuinely sweet and nice as Kris. Do people hate Adam or do they just hate his singing? I mean, I hate vaGina more than just about anybody, but if she had simply never sang, I would be indifferent to her. I only hate her because of the aural atrocities she commits when she sings.
bumlets1		#167	[-]
Posts: 1144 (05/30/09 1:34 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	eraserhead19 wrote: Blatantly Oblivious wrote: Both of these boys are quite naturally charming and engaging - honestly - who could not love them. there aren't any people on here who hate Kris. Hating Kris would be like saying you hate puppies, babies and rainbows. Adam on the other hand? he's got some serious haters even though he's as genuinely sweet and nice as Kris. It's impossible to hate Kris as a person. He's a really sincere and sweet guy. Hating his style of music is entirely possible though.
RobbinAmber		#168	[-]
Posts: 1403 (05/30/09 1:38 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Drew B wrote: Do people hate Adam or do they just hate his singing? They hate him for his singing, true, but they also hate him for being too gay, having bad skin, wearing too much make-up, being arrogant, getting fat, not coming out while on Idol, being coy, his double chins, his nose job, mouthing off at Gene Simmons, and his singing. Don't forget the terrible singing.
Sheri		#169	[-]
Posts: 767 (05/30/09 1:41 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't think people can hate Kris because there is nothing to hate: nice, sweet talented guy who took a lot of crap from the judges with grace. I think some people tend to hate Gokey and Adam because they're polarizing. Many people hate gay men who revel in their pedicures and who gleefully play dress up. Makes them all kinds of uncomfortable. Makes many gay men uncomfortable from what I hear because it paints a picture of gay men they're trying to combat. I can't help but love Adam with all his childlike glee and honesty. And many can't stand those like Gokey who belong to a religious cult and make ignorant comments about godly ways for men to love. But many embrace that viewpoint. There are many Sarvers and Gokeys in the world. But both are polarizing. Kris isn't. Last Edited By: Sheri 05/30/09 2:07 PM. Edited 1 times.
yoshi		#170	[-]
Posts: 2181 (05/30/09 6:30 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Drew B wrote: And he's [Kris] also a damned good singer, which is why he deserved his win. In the way wonderbread is damned good bread. It's good, but you forget it 5 minutes later.
eraserhead19		#171	[-]
Posts: 569 (05/30/09 10:08 PM) Fantardus Überdramaticus Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	RobbinAmber wrote: Drew B wrote: Do people hate Adam or do they just hate his singing? They hate him for his singing, true, but they also hate him for being too gay, having bad skin, wearing too much make-up, being arrogant, getting fat, not coming out while on Idol, being coy, his double chins, his nose job, mouthing off at Gene Simmons, and his singing. Don't forget the terrible singing. wait, Adam had a nose job? when did I miss this? and yes, I agree with Robbin, people HATE adam...one only need look in his hate thread to see that it's about way more than just not liking his style of singing. He's a very polarizing persona.
reggierules		#172	[-]
Posts: 2649 (05/31/09 9:20 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Anyone need me to explain the hate? I have a bit of experience.
bumlets1		#173	[-]
Posts: 1192 (06/02/09 7:56 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	eraserhead19 wrote: RobbinAmber wrote: Drew B wrote: Do people hate Adam or do they just hate his singing? They hate him for his singing, true, but they also hate him for being too gay, having bad skin, wearing too much make-up, being arrogant, getting fat, not coming out while on Idol, being coy, his double chins, his nose job, mouthing off at Gene Simmons, and his singing. Don't forget the terrible singing. wait, Adam had a nose job? when did I miss this? and yes, I agree with Robbin, people HATE adam...one only need look in his hate thread to see that it's about way more than just not liking his style of singing. He's a very polarizing persona. Nose job?
beatles20147		#174	[-]
Posts: 12328 (06/03/09 11:23 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Drew B wrote: The implication of what I quoted from beatles is that votes are only meaningful to the degree that they translate into sales. I don't think that's what it's about. I think what he said is kind of like saying (to borrow your analogy) that the only Patriots fans who count are the ones who buy the Gillette products Brady endorses. There's a lot more reason to support the Patriots other than to sell razors... Like football, for example. IMO, the idol competition is the football and the CD's sold are the razors... I don't see that at all. We both agree that the CD sales and razor shilling are outside of the actual competition (American Idol and the Super Bowl respectively). But the comparison doesn't work; you're comparing an individual (Kris Allen) to an organization (the Patriots) and their two very different goals. The Patriots' franchise isn't entirely based on selling razors. Kris Allen's career is all about selling CDs and concert tickets. If Tom Brady's endorsement doesn't help sell Gillette razors, the Patriots' entire organization won't collapse. If Kris doesn't sell music, he'll be dropped from the label. The title of "American Idol winner" is only relevant within the TV show. It gives their fans something to brag about I guess but all it really guarantees is that the winner's Wikipedia page will call them as such. It doesn't mean anything in the way of actual success in the record industry.
LeeLeeRaRa		#175	[-]
Posts: 2472 (06/03/09 11:39 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I posted this in Adam's love thread, thought it might have some relevance here...great article http://bighollywood.breit...t-gay-enough/#idc-ctools
Drew B		#176	[-]
Posts: 5606 (06/04/09 1:20 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	beatles20147 wrote: Drew B wrote: The implication of what I quoted from beatles is that votes are only meaningful to the degree that they translate into sales. I don't think that's what it's about. I think what he said is kind of like saying (to borrow your analogy) that the only Patriots fans who count are the ones who buy the Gillette products Brady endorses. There's a lot more reason to support the Patriots other than to sell razors... Like football, for example. IMO, the idol competition is the football and the CD's sold are the razors... I don't see that at all. We both agree that the CD sales and razor shilling are outside of the actual competition (American Idol and the Super Bowl respectively). But the comparison doesn't work; you're comparing an individual (Kris Allen) to an organization (the Patriots) and their two very different goals. The Patriots' franchise isn't entirely based on selling razors. Kris Allen's career is all about selling CDs and concert tickets. If Tom Brady's endorsement doesn't help sell Gillette razors, the Patriots' entire organization won't collapse. If Kris doesn't sell music, he'll be dropped from the label. The title of "American Idol winner" is only relevant within the TV show. It gives their fans something to brag about I guess but all it really guarantees is that the winner's Wikipedia page will call them as such. It doesn't mean anything in the way of actual success in the record industry. There is the sticking point. Is the show about the show or is it about actual success in the record industry. I don't know that there is a right answer. To Kris and the other idol (as well as to many of the fan), the goal is actual success in the record industry. Those involved with the show who cash in on future success may care, too. On the other hand, there are tons of people involved with the show (producers, network people, Ryan/Randy/Paula/Kara) who don't see a dime from record sales. To them and to many other fans of the show, the show is an end in and of itself and success in the record industry or lack thereof is not an issue... The Patriots' franchise isn't entirely based on selling razors. Kris Allen's career is all about selling CDs and concert tickets. In this instance, you're comparing the wrong elements in the analogy. The Patriot's franchise is analogous to the AI machine. Kris Allen is analogous to Tom Brady. You are right that Kris Allen's career is all about selling CD's and concert tickets (at least unless the show starts to employ him for tens of millions of dollars per year like the Pats do with Brady). Still, despite Brady's salary, endorsements are HUGELY important to his livelihood. And while I agree that the endorsements are not a huge priority to the Patriots franchise, I feel that music sales are also not a huge priority to most of the idol machine (although I imagine that there are individuals within it who get rich off of idols' success).
eraserhead19		#177	[-]
Posts: 773 (06/04/09 3:25 PM) Fantardus Überdramaticus Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	drew wrote: Is the show about the show or is it about actual success in the record industry. the show is about the show....nothing more. Do they like it when a winner succeeds? of course, it gives them something to brag about next year... however, it's not required every year that the winner be successful as long as every few years they find a break-out success story. It keeps the illusion alive that it's the show that makes these people successful, rather than their own talent and Idol is just the platform in which they launch that talent from. I think Simon in particular likes to think of himself as some musical genius, discovering all these talents and molding them into fabulous careers but let's recall he hated Kelly season 1 and didn't even think she should go through to the top 30. He didn't like Kris, Allison and he even said Adam was too theatrical in SF audition even if he put him through to Hollywood. Simon and the rest of those idiots couldn't find their ass with both hands IMO. They get lucky enough to get some really good talent every year and it just happens to work out for them sometimes.
bumlets1		#178	[-]
Posts: 1204 (06/04/09 4:18 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	eraserhead19 wrote: drew wrote: Is the show about the show or is it about actual success in the record industry. the show is about the show....nothing more. Do they like it when a winner succeeds? of course, it gives them something to brag about next year... however, it's not required every year that the winner be successful as long as every few years they find a break-out success story. It keeps the illusion alive that it's the show that makes these people successful, rather than their own talent and Idol is just the platform in which they launch that talent from. I think Simon in particular likes to think of himself as some musical genius, discovering all these talents and molding them into fabulous careers but let's recall he hated Kelly season 1 and didn't even think she should go through to the top 30. He didn't like Kris, Allison and he even said Adam was too theatrical in SF audition even if he put him through to Hollywood. Simon and the rest of those idiots couldn't find their ass with both hands IMO. They get lucky enough to get some really good talent every year and it just happens to work out for them sometimes. Wow- where did you find a soapbox that tall?
eraserhead19		#179	[-]
Posts: 778 (06/04/09 5:40 PM) Fantardus Überdramaticus Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	bumlets1 wrote: eraserhead19 wrote: drew wrote: Is the show about the show or is it about actual success in the record industry. the show is about the show....nothing more. Do they like it when a winner succeeds? of course, it gives them something to brag about next year... however, it's not required every year that the winner be successful as long as every few years they find a break-out success story. It keeps the illusion alive that it's the show that makes these people successful, rather than their own talent and Idol is just the platform in which they launch that talent from. I think Simon in particular likes to think of himself as some musical genius, discovering all these talents and molding them into fabulous careers but let's recall he hated Kelly season 1 and didn't even think she should go through to the top 30. He didn't like Kris, Allison and he even said Adam was too theatrical in SF audition even if he put him through to Hollywood. Simon and the rest of those idiots couldn't find their ass with both hands IMO. They get lucky enough to get some really good talent every year and it just happens to work out for them sometimes. Wow- where did you find a soapbox that tall? Kris' closet... it's what he stands on when he wants to look tall
Miss Alley Shack		#180	[-]
Posts: 3899 (06/04/09 11:31 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think Simon in particular likes to think of himself as some musical genius, discovering all these talents and molding them into fabulous careers but let's recall he hated Kelly season 1 and didn't even think she should go through to the top 30. He didn't like Kris, Allison and he even said Adam was too theatrical in SF audition even if he put him through to Hollywood. He didn't "hate" Kelly. He actually praised her as likable, talented, et cetera. He just happened to like Christina Christian and Tamyra more. And seriously, Simon was rooting for Adam over Kris. I doubted he had problems with Adam in the finals. Simon is an ass, true, and his most recent biggest musical "success", outside AI and X-Factor, was getting the Teletubbies to hit the #1 spot in the UK a long, long, long time ago. But his musical inclination and judgment on this show tended to be sound, or at least, much more sound than the three Stooges beside him. Not that he is 100% sound. Remember Carmen?

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The American Idol culture war (Bill O'Reilly wins Idol!)

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