DelosWorld wrote:
The bomb could be in the Temple complex and relatively safe from moisture, although not from Old Smoky. Hallowed be the Bomb!
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WiscBadger95 |
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DelosWorld wrote:
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Merrilin |
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When people like Faraday jump in and out of time in different eras, what happens to the people who interact with them and then that person is just gone?
Doesn't anyone in normal time ever follow up?
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chidelta |
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So apparently the only thing that Daniel did to fulfill his duty to the island was to plant the idea of time travel into the mind of the good Doctor Chang by showing him the equations in his notebook. Yet Dr. Chang still needs to be convinced of time travel, doesn't he? Was he joking about the time travel or does he already believe that it's possible?I don't know if I'm the only one, but I've been extremely disappointed with the writers' treatment of Dr. Chang. He went from a mysterious, all-knowing presence in the orientation videos, a guy who seemed to be deep in the inner Dharma circle, to a somewhat bumbling, skeptical, grumpy scientist who likes country music and takes orders from the likes of dimwit Horace. You would think that if Daniel was smart enough to work his way off the island and hang out with the Ann Arbor types, and then returned with a group of important Dharma delegates, then Chang would at least give him the time of day and listen to his pitch, however crazy it sounded. Maybe his tie is too tight. |
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chidelta |
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:googles Felicia's ass: Is that what kids are calling it these days? |
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WiscBadger95 |
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FeliciaM7 wrote:Watchoo talkin' bout? You ain't got nuttin' to be ashamed of when it comes to boobage! And I do like me a fine ass, too. |
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Rodo |
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pleasepassthepork wrote:Maybe it was selected by his parents to hide his true identity? He lived with his mother, and neither she nor Charles changed their last names. |
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Cassidy666 |
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Watching this episode, I am overcome with a sense of fatalism. Even nihilism. Whatever happens happens is such a fatalistic concept. I'm hoping that Daniel
isn't dead yet but for the sake of argument, let's say his purpose was to go back to the island and get shot by his mother and die. Something happens
in the next four hours, which we will find out int he following two episodes, whether or not they really detonate the bomb or not, and it convinces Eloise that
the only right thing is for Daniel to fulfiul his purpose. She has with him his journal, with everything that he has written down in it. All his equations and
concepts of time travel, as well as all the details of his life that he jotted down, including Theresa dying, all about Desmond and the button and his part in
things. She pushes him to become a physicist, gives him the journal to start writing when he graduates, talks to Desmond so that he goes to the island to
fulfil his purpose of causing the plane to crash, and finally pushes her son to go to the island, because what happens after she shoots him is far more
important. There is such sadness in her eyes when she tells him to go and she is an incredibly hard woman because of all that she knows. And once Desmond
leaves, she no longer can tell what's going to happen because that's where Daniel (and his journal) leaves her and now her future is uncertain.
After a whole season where the fatalism of fate has been hammered into our heads, Daniel suddenly pops up to say that it might not be true, and promptly proves his own point false by running headfirst into his fate by going guns blazing into the hostile camp. Aside from the stupidity of that action which I can only blame the writers for, the one thing that still gives us hope that things could still be changed are two things. One is Desmond. The other is what exactly Daniel said to young Charlotte. He said that he had avoided telling her until now but was going to try it anyway. I suspect they cut away from it because Daniel tried to tell her something different. Not "don't go back to the island or you will die" but something else that might change things for the better. Desmond has already been brought up as an outside factor to fate. He's already saved Charlie's life several times, which led to Charlie drowning and started Desmond to finally get contact with Penny to save the O6. His future is completely unwritten. Daniel told him to go to his mother but Daniel had no idea what would happen if he did. It ended up causing Desmond to be shot by Ben... which could lead to Desmond doing something else which is still unknown. Desmond is still a complete variable in the equation, both from the outside perspective and from his own perspective. As for the theme of fatalism, it is basically a reflection of the much larger philosophical question of predetermination and free will. If everything is already predetermined, can we be said to have free will? Free will implies choice and when your choices will inevitably lead to the predetermined fate, does that mean you don't have free will? Looking at the timeline from the outside, it might seem so. What happens happens. It's fatalisitic. But the hope is that something can be changed. Like what Daniel is trying to do. We've already seen Jack refuse to help Ben because he knows what Ben becomes and inadvertantly causes Ben to become what he is. Is that what's going to happen with the bomb? Daniel's plan to dissipate the energy might accidentally cause the accident to happen. It's incredibly fatalistic to think about. And I hope that whatever Daniel told young Charlotte, it was different and it actually does affect things as well as what Desmond does after being shot. Hope and free will on one side vs. pretermination and fate on the other. Which shall overcome the other? |
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QualityBobby |
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chidelta wrote: Yep, that's what I'm calling it! And agreeance 100% with Wisc! |
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FeliciaM7 |
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QualityBobby wrote:That tickled... |
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blazer316 |
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5. sawyer knows full well there's a peace treaty, but allows jack/kate/dan to take guns. if they hadn't taken the guns, they wouldn't have
completely blown their cover and sawyer/juliet wouldn't have been caught
Wasn't the decision to get guns after they left the house? I could be wrong about that though. |
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pussycow |
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Yes, it was Kate "I fuck everything up for everybody" Austen's idea
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ghostbusted |
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With respect to Cassidy666's post, isn't there a tense difference here? I thought the quote was "what happened, happened". This is a quite
different meaning from "what happens, happens" with respect to its implications for the issue of free will vs. predetermination. I am not even sure
that the show is really addressing this.
Let's consider a view with two concurrent timelines. One is the individual's timeline and the other is the World's timeline. In the individual's timeline he is free to loop around going back and forward in time with reference to the World. He can use free will do do whatever he wants in his line since from his frame of reference he is still moving from his past to his future even if it ends up moving from the World's future to its past. From the World's reference frame, it just moves from the past to the future without any loops or discontinuities. This is where the "whatever happened, happened" comes in. If one of the Losties does something in 1977 to affect the future, from the World's reference it happened in 1977 and it doesn't matter whether it was done by the Lostie as he originally lived in 1977 or by the same Lostie who returned to 1977 from the future. The World just responds to an event that happened in 1977. From the individual within his timeline, he may puzzle as he lives his life why something happened because he would not know that his future self was around doing something. At each point in his timeline he can choose to act because he probably does not know how his actions affect the World's future but in the World timeline the actions take place and the results are fixed. I hope this makes some kind of sense. |
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Fluffynurse |
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Nice post Cassidy. Especially the part about young Charlotte & Daniel.
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FeliciaM7 |
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We've already seen Jack refuse to help Ben because he knows what Ben becomes and inadvertantly causes Ben to become what he is. Is that what's going to happen with the bomb? Daniel's plan to dissipate the energy might accidentally cause the accident to happen.Oh that'll be Jack's fault, too... not Daniel's. IT'S ALL JACK FAULT! Jack didn't cause Ben to become an asshole. He just helped out a little bit. I agree, Cassidy - great post. :) |
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phantomkp |
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chidelta wrote: |
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Rodo |
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Well put, ghostbusted. That is exactly what I think is going on, too.
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twonyx |
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Does anyone have a photo of the hatch door that says quarantine? I want to use it for my avatar this week because I have been ordered into quarantine for
the next 7 days. I tested positive for the flu and I live in Houston. So, because of the Swine Flu I am under doctor ordered quarantine. |
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tigeranne |
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scepticA wrote: yep, that's exactly what I said. I pretty much always assume Ben is lying. W-i-d-m-o-r-e too--at least when he's talking to anyone other than one of his own. Thus, I still am not sure that W-i-d-m-o-r-e faked the 815 crash. |
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pussycow |
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twonyx wrote:oh bummer twonyx! Hope you get better fast! How's this?
Here is the big image if you want to do it up differently: http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x01/1/science-faith-cap136.jpg |
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Cheyenie |
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eta: I guess Pussycow beat me to it. Oh well. |
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