4/8/09 Ep12 "Dead is Dead"

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Fusili Jerri		#141	[-]
Posts: 328 (04/09/09 6:14 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Charming Nemesis wrote: I've long suspected that bounty hunter chick works for Widmore. Good point about Locke possibly being smokey, or an extension of it. I also felt that the bounty hunteress was Widmore's the moment she said that she was taking him to Guam. One thing is really noticed this episode was how CLEAN John was while everyone else was dirty and banged up - his shirt was ironed, he had no cuts or dirt on his face and no stubble. Pretty obvious that he is part of a manifestation of ol'Smokey?
BJ		#142	[-]
Posts: 6188 (04/09/09 6:55 AM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Antithesys wrote: Obviously those 316'ers work for Widmore. Shit. I'm surprised everyone here came to that conclusion. It never crossed my mind; I had assumed they went wonky like Cindy and the French. I suppose Widmore makes more sense since we think you have to be thrown in the Temple to go wonky. But how did Widmore get three (was it three?) people on the plane with less than a day's warning? I originally thought they were sick too, but the crate of guns makes Widmore more likely imo.
BJ		#143	[-]
Posts: 6189 (04/09/09 6:59 AM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I wonder if Locke will give Christian his shoes. If they are both smokey, maybe it won't be possible for them to be together.
WallJ		#144	[-]
Posts: 574 (04/09/09 7:18 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If the 316ers were working for Widmore, wouldn't they have immediately recognized Ben and Locke (and Sun, too, for that matter)? That is what is throwing me off. Perhaps Cesar (who has been the primary voice of the 316ers) was not part of Ilana's crew? Also, when Ben stole Alex, are we to assume that was pre-purge? If so, how did Ben then acclimate himself back into Dharma before initiating the purge?
BJ		#145	[-]
Posts: 6190 (04/09/09 7:32 AM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	WallJ wrote: If the 316ers were working for Widmore, wouldn't they have immediately recognized Ben and Locke (and Sun, too, for that matter)? That is what is throwing me off. Perhaps Cesar (who has been the primary voice of the 316ers) was not part of Ilana's crew? Also, when Ben stole Alex, are we to assume that was pre-purge? If so, how did Ben then acclimate himself back into Dharma before initiating the purge? I think Ben & Ethan must have been double agents for some years, working with both Dharma and the Hostiles.
aslanscubs		#146	[-]
Posts: 2132 (04/09/09 7:42 AM) MWV Champ and I get pecan pie! Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Wow, what an episode! I think this episode gave us a whole lot of answers or at least more clues to a good many things. So, Danielle DID see Ben before and knew who he was when she shot him with the arrow! I knew it. I, too, thought Locke could be a manifestation of Smokey because he knew so much and disappeared when Smokey showed up but I don't know. He acts too much like Locke for that to be true, IMO. Michael Emerson is an amazing actor!! We have consistently gone from hating Ben to feeling sorry for him. I actually felt sorry for him again when he was seeing those images of his life and he seemed genuinely remorseful. I imagine we'll see him being evil again pretty soon though. Awesome.
Jedijake		#147	[-]
Posts: 5597 (04/09/09 9:31 AM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	John wasn't on the plane's manifest the first time and obviously isn't on it this time. How did he get to the island the first time? Is Locke like Alper?
WiscBadger95		#148	[-]
Posts: 13799 (04/09/09 9:34 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Jedijake wrote: John wasn't on the plane's manifest the first time and obviously isn't on it this time. How did he get to the island the first time? Is Locke like Alper? Locke was on the plane the first time as a passenger. They boarded him early because he was in a wheelchair. In fact, they had to carry him onto the plane because they couldn't find the special wheelchair they use to take passengers on the plane. The walkabout tour company that turned him away even paid for his ticket.
alexineruby		#149	[-]
Posts: 3712 (04/09/09 10:10 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I have to agree with PoChop on the Egyptian writings on the walls. The one of Anubis offerring something to the smoke monster screamed out to me. That was no snake. That was Smokey and it means it's been around for a long, long time.
aunttallulah		#150	[-]
Posts: 22 (04/09/09 10:10 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ben is totally awesome. It is hard to figure out if he is good or evil. Michael Emerson is fantastic. It is impossible to quite figure him out. Brilliant!
aslanscubs		#151	[-]
Posts: 2137 (04/09/09 10:16 AM) MWV Champ and I get pecan pie! Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I meant to ask if anyone saw the eye in the carvings on the wall (I'll try to post a screencap). Definitely related to all of the eye shots on this show methinks.
cindidindi76		#152	[-]
Posts: 16863 (04/09/09 10:35 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	phantomkp wrote: Better yet, why didnt Widmore get on the back of the plane himself? Because Widmore thinks he can't go back. If/when he gets comfirmation that Ben did, I'm sure he'll get his ass there ASAP. So, being the leader of the others turns you into an asshole. Does this mean in another 15ish years Locke will be a heartless bastard too? Who could be in the body bag next week? A. Plotpoint. He's a great guy. I'm def. looking forward to Miles and Hurley sharing some dead people secrets next week. And they better give Emerson the freaking Emmy this year, damn it!
BloedroodRoze		#153	[-]
Posts: 205 (04/09/09 10:37 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I also think Locke is now just a manifestation of the Smoke Monster. Ben's "Dead is dead" line (also the episode title), Locke appearing when Ben says it's something he can't control as in referring to Smokey (I think it was intended to seem like a fake-out, but actually isn't), and as someone mentioned earlier, he was CLEAN the whole time, while everyone else looked ragged. Smokey appearing after Locke disappeared, and Lock appearing after Smokey disappeared, etc. All signs seem to point to it. I have a question: does Smokey actually refer to the dead when making decisions to kill or let someone live? E.g. Was the decision not to kill Ben Smokey's or does Smokey have the power to talk to the dead, so it asked whether Alex forgave Ben or not (and she did, if so)? I don't know how it applies to Eko, as I don't remember the episode that well. Hm... And wtf with Illiana. Didn't see that one coming. The possibility of her working for Widmore didn't even occur to me until I read this board. P.S. Yay for Penny living <3
tigeranne		#154	[-]
Posts: 6449 (04/09/09 10:38 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I still think Ben is evil. He just has a soft spot for babies. While Cesar was telling Ben that he "had his back", I was telling my family, "Ben will kill him before the season ends." I was totally freaked out when it happened 10 minutes later. * I think Ben will try to let John be the leader.... but Ben's true nature will cause him to attempt to usurp him at some point. * how will Ben rejoin Dharma? Easily. He will come walking back into camp. He's a kid. No one will suspect him of complicity. Lockeisthekey is my name at the Fuselage... and I have always thought it to be apt for the show. I think John (I hate to say it) is as dead as Christian. They both have that same Zenlike quality now that they didn't have in life. I loved seeing Alex, even though it was really Smoky. That is still the most horrifying moment in the series, imo--watching her killed. WHERE is Daniel? I miss him. I thought the 316ers were just freaking out because Ben shot Cesar and then he and John rowed away. I think that could make anyone a bit paranoid. Ana Lucia, anyone? She wasn't working for W-i-d-m-o-r-e. Just paranoid. *couldn't help but see the spoilerish posts relating to (I assume) the previews. sounds intriguing. can't wait for next Wednesday!
cindidindi76		#155	[-]
Posts: 16867 (04/09/09 10:47 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I have a question: does Smokey actually refer to the dead when making decisions to kill or let someone live? E.g. Was the decision not to kill Ben Smokey's or does Smokey have the power to talk to the dead, so it asked whether Alex forgave Ben or not (and she did, if so)? I don't know how it applies to Eko, as I don't remember the episode that well. Hm... IIRC, Eko's brother told him he needed to ask for forgiveness, and when Eko said no, he got tossed around like a rag doll. * I thought the 316ers were just freaking out because Ben shot Cesar and then he and John rowed away. I think that could make anyone a bit paranoid. Ana Lucia, anyone? She wasn't working for W-i-d-m-o-r-e. Just paranoid. But that doesn't explain the "answer this or you aren't with us" random question that regular people would not be able to answer.
FeliciaM7		#156	[-]
Posts: 7306 (04/09/09 11:08 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	IIRC, Eko's brother told him he needed to ask for forgiveness, and when Eko said no, he got tossed around like a rag doll. That made me laugh.
gcodori		#157	[-]
Posts: 138 (04/09/09 11:15 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	How could you guys NOT know the huntress was working for Widmore? She said (flat out) to Sayid that she was going to make him pay for what he did (killing the Widmore goons). I'm surprised the writers made her tell her intentions so soon in the show. I know the badge and handcuffs means she also works for the feds, law enforcement, etc, but she still has ties to Widmore. My wife (not an avid Lost watcher) caught on to this - she even thought the huntress was the spy that Sayid shot last season. It's rare that this show transmits it's intentions so clearly after years of vague characters and questions...
pussycow		#158	[-]
Posts: 4829 (04/09/09 11:20 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	gcodori wrote: How could you guys NOT know the huntress was working for Widmore? She said (flat out) to Sayid that she was going to make him pay for what he did (killing the Widmore goons). I'm surprised the writers made her tell her intentions so soon in the show. I know the badge and handcuffs means she also works for the feds, law enforcement, etc, but she still has ties to Widmore. My wife (not an avid Lost watcher) caught on to this - she even thought the huntress was the spy that Sayid shot last season. It's rare that this show transmits it's intentions so clearly after years of vague characters and questions... Well, she did say she was working for the family of the guy she shot IIRC. So, I just thought of something. Ben's bullet did hit Desmond, right? In the right shoulder. And obviously Desmond would be mad as hell at Ben for trying to kill him and Penny. But when they all met up with Eloise, Desmond was there along with Ben (wasn't he) and he didn't show any sign of being shot or having had an encounter with Ben.
cindidindi76		#159	[-]
Posts: 16876 (04/09/09 11:41 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Didn't Ben go after Penny after that? Like probably the same day the flight to Guam took off? I know the badge and handcuffs means she also works for the feds, law enforcement, etc, but she still has ties to Whidmore. Not necessarily. I'm sure a man of Widmoore's excessive wealth could easily buy a badge and some cuffs for his accomplice/employee.
pussycow		#160	[-]
Posts: 4830 (04/09/09 11:43 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	cindidindi76 wrote: Didn't Ben go after Penny after that? Like probably the same day the flight to Guam took off? Ah shit you are right.

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4/8/09 Ep12 "Dead is Dead"

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