4/1/09 Ep11 "Whatever Happened, Happened"

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WiscBadger95		#181	[-]
Posts: 13728 (04/02/09 2:47 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	blazer316 wrote: My point is, what happens if the Losties do NOT jump forward? If Jack was born in 1970, wouldn't there now be TWO "jacks"? Is it really possible for someone to exist in two seperate places at the same time? Is that not some sort of paradox? There ARE two Jacks in 1977. One is a kid growing up in Christian's house somewhere (and getting into fights as I recall). One is a janitor on an island. And if they ever met, there wouldn't be a disappearance or an explosion or anything. They'd just meet. Just like there were two sawyers when Claire was delivering a baby. One was spying on her from behind a bush and the other was off on the beach somewhere. On some of the Lost blogs I read, there's speculation that when young Sayid was killing the chicken in Iraq, it was the same time grown-up Sayid was shooting little Ben on the Island.
WiscBadger95		#182	[-]
Posts: 13729 (04/02/09 2:52 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	phantomkp wrote: bannedchef wrote: Ok, I understand the whole "linear time" concept and that the 1970's Losties are no longer seeing time as linear, but rather in a fragmented fashion (birth->2004-1974-1975-1976-1977). My point is, what happens if the Losties do NOT jump forward? If Jack was born in 1970, wouldn't there now be TWO "jacks"? Is it really possible for someone to exist in two seperate places at the same time? Is that not some sort of paradox? Well, there is no real paradox in "Lost's" version of time travel. Thats what makes it more interesting than most time travel stories! Two people can occupy the same space with different versions of themselves. Remember, we saw Locke flash back 3 months or so, to the time he was kneeling at the hatch window wailing to the island and the flash of light turning on....we saw present Locke realizing his previous self was over there, and choosing not to go there. But the fact is, they were both there, maybe 200 yards from each other at different versions of themself. So these 1977 losties could very well remain on the island for 25 years, getting older, and eventually being on the island when thier younger selves crash on it in 2004. It could happen. But i personally think these guys are gonna jump in time again eventually before that does. The reason i say there is no "real" paradox problems in "Lost", is cause there is a mechanism in place (explained by Miles and Faraday and Eloise) to prevent people from changing things that had happened, or changing things that will happen in the future. Its a self contained system. So there can be no paradox of Locke being 200 yards from himself with two different versions of himself...because fate/destiny will make sure Locke never meets his younger self, cause it never happened in the first place. If Locke had got it into his head to suddenly go talk to his 3 month younger self (which we know never happened cause Locke never met his older self!), fate/destiny would have done something to stop it from happening. Like, taking away Locke's ability to walk. Weve seen the island do it before. Thats not to say a person cant go back in time on Lost and talk to his/her younger self...we just know Locke cant, cause he had no memory of meeting his older self, which means it never happened. Nothing can happen that wasnt supposed to happen...thats the conceit of the shows use of time travel (as well as visions of the future, and what is supposed to happen, ala Desmond) Oh, they may be able to occupy the same time, but but occupying the same space may be a whole different matter (the relevant part is around 1:25 - 1:35) ...
cindidindi76		#183	[-]
Posts: 16657 (04/02/09 2:54 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think present Ben is adrift right now, thats why he seems more scared and unsure (waking up to the guy he just killed, not knowing what hes gonna do) because its at a point where Ben no longer really knows whats gonna happen? I think up till now, Ben has had a pretty good idea how things were supposed to go...with him coming back to the island to be judged by smokey, losing his leadership role to Locke, feeling like he "broke the rules" (whatever that means)...Ben is on an unknown path now. And of course hes gonna be a bit more scared than normal. Somebody mark down this date and time. I actually agree with phantom. Even though young Ben loses his knowledge of these losties at that point, he still very well could have researched the history during his years on the island and eventually found out their importance by the time they crashed on the island in 2004. Well, Ben does end up back in Dharmaville, so if he did forget them, he'd remeet them anyways most likely.
phantomkp		#184	[-]
Posts: 669 (04/02/09 3:06 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	WiscBadger95 wrote: Oh, they may be able to occupy the same time, but but occupying the same space may be a whole different matter (the relevant part is around 1:25 - 1:35) ... Correct. Although, i would argue that Halliwax, at that time he did the film, didnt really understand how timetravel and paradox's work in reality to the show...hes assuming rules about time shifts/travel the same way Hugo was, which we know is wrong. If Farady was doing that presentation, he wouldnt worry about multiple bunnies occupying the same space being a paradox, hed just say if it wasnt supposed to happen like that, it wouldnt have! But some people are theorizing that Charlotte disappeared from Daniel cause she couldnt be on the island at the same time her younger self was there...to prevent them from ever occupying the same space. Which is silly.
GeckoIsGod		#185	[-]
Posts: 669 (04/02/09 3:10 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I know this is going back a bit, but I've been wondering about the Blast Door Map. Considering the amount of knowledge Radzinsky obviously has about Dharma, his map lacked a lot of detail. For instance, why did it read "Alleged Location of #4 The Flame But Unlikely Due to Cerberus Activity?" Radzinsky would certainly know it's exact location as he worked there.
cindidindi76		#186	[-]
Posts: 16664 (04/02/09 3:11 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	You're probably not supposed to remember that much detail about the blast door map.
WiscBadger95		#187	[-]
Posts: 13730 (04/02/09 3:15 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	GeckoIsGod wrote: I know this is going back a bit, but I've been wondering about the Blast Door Map. Considering the amount of knowledge Radzinsky obviously has about Dharma, his map lacked a lot of detail. For instance, why did it read "Alleged Location of #4 The Flame But Unlikely Due to Cerberus Activity?" Radzinsky would certainly know it's exact location as he worked there. Maybe he blew his brains out before he got around to adding the Flame to the map, and that was actually Kelvin's work.
WiscBadger95		#188	[-]
Posts: 13731 (04/02/09 3:16 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	phantomkp wrote: ...hes assuming rules about time shifts/travel the same way Hugo was, which we know is wrong. And just when were we told that, precisely? Last Edited By: WiscBadger95 04/02/09 3:24 PM. Edited 1 times.
GeckoIsGod		#189	[-]
Posts: 670 (04/02/09 3:16 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	cindidindi76 wrote: You're probably not supposed to remember that much detail about the blast door map. You're probably right! I think my problem is that I obsessed over the damn thing so much when it was a part of the show...
phantomkp		#190	[-]
Posts: 673 (04/02/09 3:38 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	WiscBadger95 wrote: phantomkp wrote: ...hes assuming rules about time shifts/travel the same way Hugo was, which we know is wrong. And just when were we told that, precisely? By Miles, specifically in that scene. And by Farady before that. And by Eloise before that. How many knowledgable characters on the show do you need to tell you that time travel on Lost doesnt work the same as time travel on Back to The Future?? :P Last Edited By: phantomkp 04/02/09 3:44 PM. Edited 2 times.
twonyx		#191	[-]
Posts: 84 (04/02/09 3:51 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Manila ESQ wrote: Mega64 wrote: Antithesys wrote: Yeah, Daniel explained it perfectly. Time itself, in general, IS linear and cannot be changed. It only seems non-linear to the characters who traveled into the past. Their personal lifelines are still a one-way line moving forward, but that line happens to be curving back in time so that they experience some of it in the past. If they were to die, it wouldn't affect anything. Their lifeline would come to an end just as all of ours eventually will, except that theirs happens to have curved around so that from an outsider's perspective it ended before it began (or at some point after, but you get the idea). Young Ben cannot die, because we know his lifeline continues for at least thirty more years and that cannot be altered. Seemed pretty simple to me. Glad they explained it in a bit more detail, though. I'm sure my mom will appreciate it. I wish Kate would stop smiling in inappropriate times. Her leaving Aaron was pretty good, but it seems in her serious moments with Cassidy and Claire's mom she was smiling the entire time. I'm still curious where the fuck everybody's gonna go from here. So most of the Lostie crew is in the 70's. Are they just gonna be stuck there until they die, or will they get a chance to go back to the present? How about those new Losties? Will we ever find out what happened to Rose and Bernard? Hahaha, why am I wondering why my questions haven't been answered yet? It's fucking Lost. If I had them answered I'd just end up with more questions. Guess I'll just ride it out like I have been. I think that all the 70s Losties will die in the island (some heroically) because they know that sometime in the future, they will be born again. The last scene could be our cast taking that Oceanic Flight once again. They won't be born again. If they die in the 70's then their life will always end at that point. Sure 2004 they are on the island, but 3 years younger than in 1977, so they will still die 3 year or so after they crash.
phantomkp		#192	[-]
Posts: 674 (04/02/09 3:53 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	GeckoIsGod wrote: I know this is going back a bit, but I've been wondering about the Blast Door Map. Considering the amount of knowledge Radzinsky obviously has about Dharma, his map lacked a lot of detail. For instance, why did it read "Alleged Location of #4 The Flame But Unlikely Due to Cerberus Activity?" Radzinsky would certainly know it's exact location as he worked there. I think we are supposed to know that Radzinsky started the map, and that Kelvin took it over and tried to finish it when Radzinsky died. So, they can simply explain it away that all the "questions" that surely Radzinsky would know the answers to, were composed by Kelvin. You can also make the case that Radzinski could have been in the Swan hatch since maybe 1985 (the incident) or so? (enough time to get it built since the model was built in 1977 and enough time to have a few volunteers manning the computer that we saw explained in the Pearl orientation film?)...and Radzinsky was there when Kelvin arrived in the early 90's (post Gulf War)..so Kelvin could have been there for over a decade before he shot himself...and obviously started the map during his paranoid times (probably post Purge) so hes going on years old memory? I dunno, but cindi is right...you can explain it away in different ways, so you probably arents supposed to think about it that much :P
stacy1201		#193	[-]
Posts: 390 (04/02/09 3:55 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	cindidindi76 wrote: I think it was kind of shitty for Kate to tell Claire's mom that she was alive, when she has no idea if she's alive or dead. Poor Claire's mom. I was thinking that too.
Screerider		#194	[-]
Posts: 24147 (04/02/09 4:25 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	blazer316 wrote: No way Sayid misses an easy kill. Or doesn't make sure. I'm chalking this one up to The Island's healing/immortality power. Ben must have had it bestowed upon him, perhaps when "mom" came to him.
cindidindi76		#195	[-]
Posts: 16673 (04/02/09 4:51 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I dunno, I would think master assassin Sayid would aim for the heart or the head, but wasn't it on the wrong side of the chest for the heart? And it was pretty close range. Sloppy writing, imo.
GeckoIsGod		#196	[-]
Posts: 671 (04/02/09 5:09 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I looked to me like the wound moved from the end of "He's Our You" to this episode. I'm pretty sure the initial wound was dead-center to the heart. ETA - From lostpedia: Bloopers and continuity errors In "He's Our You," Ben's wound was on the left side of his chest, seemingly where his heart would be located. In this episode, however, his wound is on the right side of his chest. Last Edited By: GeckoIsGod 04/02/09 5:12 PM. Edited 1 times.
phantomkp		#197	[-]
Posts: 676 (04/02/09 5:35 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I noticed the same thing...the bloody wound in this last episode was on the other side of the chest where the bullet supposedly went through. Hey, maybe something in the past changed between episodes to cause the difference!! :P
Hostile6		#198	[-]
Posts: 1070 (04/02/09 5:35 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Who says it's a continuity error? I'm thinking it was on purpose for an unknown reason. Trained gunman are taught to aim for the torso, the largest part of the body. Lastly, Sayid was messed up. He clearly was conflicted with what he was going to do. He cried more then Ben did...
cindidindi76		#199	[-]
Posts: 16677 (04/02/09 5:37 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I noticed that too, but thought maybe I was misremembering.
pussycow		#200	[-]
Posts: 4737 (04/02/09 5:38 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hostile6 wrote: Who says it's a continuity error? I'm thinking it was on purpose for an unknown reason. Trained gunman are taught to aim for the torso, the largest part of the body. Lastly, Sayid was messed up. He clearly was conflicted with what he was going to do. He cried more then Ben did... That might explain him missing, but not the wound moving

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4/1/09 Ep11 "Whatever Happened, Happened"

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