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ErgotOgre |
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Thanks, Hostile; I completely missed the airline symbol on the cloak (which was probably a blanket then, not really a cloak.) Every time I think the writers
are trying to pull one over on us, it turns out that they've covered it. (Which is why I've almost convinced myself that Kate must have left Aaron with
Claire's mother; that would explain why her character was brought back into the story the week before.)
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alexineruby |
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Is Claire officially dead or is that still up in the air? I can't remember exactly what happened to her.
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Screerider |
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phantomkp wrote:It was the 815's campsite, with 316 outriggers from the small Island. Lapidus/Sun/Sayid and Locke/Ben would know where to land their respective outriggers on the big Island. How come they didn't explain why Locke was in a black neighborhood's funeral home? How come Locke was going to off himself before meeting Eloise, as Jacob instructed?
Last Edited By: Screerider
02/26/09 12:00 PM.
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chidelta |
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Anyone else wonder where Locke got his Eloise-like black cloak? I know the answer to that. He found it in the "Religious Garb" section of the wardrobe room. |
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pleasepassthepork |
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alexineruby wrote: Not officially, but I don't think her hanging out in the cabin with Christian and the goofy way she was acting and that she "appeared" to Kate are good signs for her being alive. |
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BJ |
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The very first episode of Lost that I watched was Claire's back story where she went to see the psychic. It may be because that was my first episode, but I
still feel it is important that he insisted she had to raise the baby. I wonder whether it will come into play again. It bothers me that Claire has just
vanished and Aaron's location is now unknown. Was he really important or did they give up on that storyline?
I hope when this is all done there aren't a bunch of details like that left hanging. |
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chidelta |
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All the discussion here about whether Ben or Widmore are good guys or bad guys, as though it has to be one or the other, cracks me up. They are both evil,
power-hungry pricks. It's always been clear to me that Ben is a huge ball of self-interest with the quickest synapses in the universe, and I've been
saying for a few years now that he is obviously a seriously bad dude. I suppose the fact that people still try to find ways to put him on the "good"
side of the equation is a testament to Emerson's mad skills as an actor.
My thought is that Ben didn't really know that Locke would be resurrected on the island, but he's sharp enough to say that he did when Locke later confronts him. On the other hand, nine-lives Locke may not really care one way or the other. If he can rise from the dead, on top of curing every paralysis or gun shot wound that ails him, then Ben is no longer a threat to him. Immortals with four toes have no fear of crazy mofos like Ben Linus. |
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FeliciaM7 |
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I don't think Claire is dead.
I suppose the fact that people still try to find ways to put him on the "good" side of the equation is a testament to Emerson's mad skills as an actor.Oh he's definitely a great actor. I still wanna bust Ben's ass right about now though. That was some brutal shit he did to Locke. |
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BJ |
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If this story is going to have a happy ending, maybe Ben and Widmore will duke it out and both will perish, leaving Locke the true master of the island.
Where Richard fits in all this I still don't know. |
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Pencake |
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IMO Claire's return will probably be saved for a great WTF moment. Her story leaves a lot to work with for a standalone episode right after her reveal too.
As for last night... I loved it! So much fun! (Yes, I still need to watch the previous epi again, just because it'll be a hoot) |
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Hostile6 |
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chidelta wrote:If you watch the episodes in reverse order, as intended, Ben kills John, and then explains to Jack, the story of doubting Thomas. The story which concludes with resurrection. Why would Ben be power hungry? Why would he want power over the Others, when he knows he was dethroned by Locke, per JACOB. In Ben' only genuine moment, he tells John to lead his people and do a better job then he did. Then, by himself, no one left to manipulate, he turns the donkey wheel, t.ears in his eyes (knowing he's losing everything he's ever known), asks Jacob if he's happy? Ben sacrificed himself for the island. Not because he wanted to, but because it needed to be done. That's the difference between Ben and Widmore. Remember his words to Locke, "Destiny is a fickle bitch." Ben knows what he can't change the future. Whatever happens will find a way to happen. He's never going to lead the others. And he can't manipulate Jacob. Jacob, who had forsaken Ben (Tumor on his spine) will not tolerate Ben if he stands in the islands way. If he kills Jacob's chosen one, returns to the island, he is fucked. Ben did what he had to do, what no one else could do. You may think I'm niave for believing Ben is ultimetly serving the greater good, but until it's proven otherwise, I'll continue to believe it. Besides, if I'm wrong, it's another great twist in my eyes. Just reading Vozzek69's "things I noticed", he brings up a great point. Ben's mission now is all about Widmore and stopping him at all costs. Makes sense, IRRC the producers said in a podcast that Ben's role in the show will shift to protecing the island from Widmore.
Last Edited By: Hostile6
02/26/09 1:51 PM.
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chidelta |
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Where Richard fits in all this I still don't know. Yeah, that's one of the big questions I'm interested in learning more about. It seems possible that when he told Locke he had to die, Richard was in on the whole "let's mindfuck John Locke into helping bring Ben back to island" master scheme, but in other moments he truly seems to support Locke as the island's current chosen one (or maybe he just does as Jacob tells him and has loyalty to either). IMHO Richard is the one who is morally gray. Ben on the other hand, is just morally bankrupt. I still wanna bust Ben's ass right about now though. That was some brutal shit he did to Locke.Get in line, Felicia. Ben is like one of those punching bag clowns that gets the crap beat out of him every other episode and still bounces back for more. Okay, I've got a question for you screen cappers out there. In the scene on the beach, when they were showing Locke from behind with the monk's blanket over his head, did anyone else see a Charlie look-alike on the beach wearing the same hoodie he always wore in Season One? I backed up the tivo twice and swear it looked exactly like him. My guess is they were trying to create some parallels with the night beach scenes after the 815 crash, but it was definitely creepy. Either I'm seeing things, or the producers were throwing a little bone to the internet fans who insist that Charlie is not really dead. |
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pussycow |
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Posts: 4401 (02/26/09 2:28 PM) |
BJ wrote: Hopefully they will have the Star Trek fight music |
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WiscBadger95 |
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lynys wrote:Well, when Jack found the coffin, the Shepard to the Christians was not in it. |
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chidelta |
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Hostile, you make some good points, and I don't think you are naive for thinking Ben is serving the greater good, I just see it differently.
If you watch the episodes in reverse order, as intended, Ben kills John, and then explains to Jack, the story of doubting Thomas. The story which concludes with resurrection.Yeah, I haven't watched them in that order. The writers clearly included that story intentionally, but like a lot of things on this show, left it open for interpretation whether Ben actually knew that Locke would pull a Lazarus on the island. Your version makes sense, and I think I even recall Jack saying at one point: "He is dead, isn't he", to which Ben was silent. But another interpretation is that Ben was relaying the story to Jack because he saw the painting and wanted to convince Jack that he needed to stop being a doubting Thomas and believe that Locke was right to rely on faith all along. (Or maybe I'm just coming up with a twisted interpretation to fit my argument. Been known to happen). Why would Ben be power hungry? Why would he want power over the Others, when he knows he was dethroned by Locke, per JACOB. In Ben' only genuine moment, he tells John to lead his people and do a better job then he did. Then, by himself, no one left to manipulate, he turns the donkey wheel, t.ears in his eyes (knowing he's losing everything he's ever known), asks Jacob if he's happy? Ben sacrificed himself for the island. Not because he wanted to, but because it needed to be done. That's the difference between Ben and Widmore. Remember his words to Locke, "Destiny is a fickle bitch." Ben knows what he can't change the future. Whatever happens will find a way to happen. He's never going to lead the others. And he can't manipulate Jacob. Jacob, who had forsaken Ben (Tumor on his spine) will not tolerate Ben if he stands in the islands way. If he kills Jacob's chosen one, returns to the island, he is fucked. Ben did what he had to do, what no one else could do. You may think I'm niave for believing Ben is ultimetly serving the greater good, but until it's proven otherwise, I'll continue to believe it. Besides, if I'm wrong, it's another great twist in my eyes.Again, good points, and a valid interpretation. I just don't see Ben as giving up that easily to the island's choice of a new leader, and I didn't think he looked particularly sad when he offed Locke. Seemingly genuine moments or not, I'm with Eloise Hawking that most everything he does or says is a lie or deception. Just after he talked Locke off the ledge, and started to unwrap the cord from the radiator, I said to my wife, "he's going to kill Locke himself" (and I avoid spoilers like the plague). Ben accepted his fate of being the deposed leader temporarily, told Locke a lie that he could never come back to the island, and has now had three years to plot his return. He implemented his plan by spying on the O6 and by hiring Sayid to keep all of Widmore's cronies out of the way. He then proceeded to masterfully manipulate Locke into giving up information on Jin and Eloise, and saw a way back. To me, Ben is a classic evil genius in the writers world. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, and his proclamation to Locke about destiny, Ben still believes he is above the law, above the island's influence and able to outsmart Jacob and destiny herself. He's both delusional and brilliant at the same time. He had a magic island under his power for many years, and killed hordes of people to keep it that way. He developed a spinal tumor, and rather than accept it as fate he forced the conveniently located spinal surgeon to operate on him. He's fought for power (and arguably tried to manipulate his destiny) for a long time. He is not going to lay down now because some silly ghost told him to step aside and let the crippled guy take over. Ben's mission now is all about Widmore and stopping him at all costs. Makes sense, IRRC the producers said in a podcast that Ben's role in the show will shift to protecing the island from Widmore.I agree with this. Ben needed a diversion during his exile, and revenge is a nice one. The only thing worse than being booted off the island by a donkey wheel is knowing that the previously booted donkey might beat you back to the fountain of youth. |
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yoshi |
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FeliciaM7 wrote:I'm assuming we'll get character-centric episodes once everyone's back on the island and we will get flashbacks--but to see why Sun, Hurley, Sayid, etc. ended up on the plane. And what Kate did with her kidnapped "son" [Hi Cindi :-)]. |
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WiscBadger95 |
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ErgotOgre wrote:I'm pretty sure he told Des that because he knew that Ben had promised to kill her. |
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Misterpuff |
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Yes, Ben is a psychopath.
But If Locke killed himself, the project would have probably failed. Everything we've seen this season with the O6 return has been post funeral, so all of the machinations have been Ben's doing. He got them to go back. Locke was going to die, as Mrs Hawking says, it was going to happen, you can't stop it. Yes, this benefits Ben but it also benefits the Island and the people left on the Island. It was brutal, but preordained.
Last Edited By: Misterpuff
02/26/09 3:05 PM.
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Misterpuff |
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aslanscubs wrote:I think people may be jumping to conclusions here. The statement that the pilot and a woman took off in an outrigger could mean two other things: The pilot was Frank and the woman was not Sun, or the pilot was the co-pilot and the woman was not Sun. But if Caesar was an air marshall, he probably did know Frank as the pilot, so in that case Frank is the pilot, and Frank not being taken in the flash makes sense as he was not O6. I do believe the woman is a mystery woman, someone connected to the O6, but not the O6: Cassidy perhaps (which would mean another child left behind). It just doesn't make sense that Sun was not taken in the flash, Sayid was not on the 316 crash beach either (but Locke and Ben are). I think they are in the 70s just not geographically with Jack, Kate and Hurley, (but perhaps with Rose, Bernard and Vincent). If the woman with the pilot is Sun, its a cheap ploy to keep Jin and Sun seperated longer. And where is Sayid then? |
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WiscBadger95 |
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yorlik wrote:I took it that he had just found a black hooded sweatshirt in the wreckage and put it on. |
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