S-18 Edgic (editing and logic) - Tocantins - Survivor Speculation - Spoiler Related - Survivor Sucks - Message Board

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S-18 Edgic (editing and logic) - Tocantins

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Oowatanite		#1901	[-]
Posts: 7103 (03/13/09 12:17 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	9RedWing19 wrote: Oowatanite wrote: Now that we have THREE weeks to stew before the next episode, I think it's time to assemble an alliance to combat the anti-Erinn forces of evil led by "Blake the Terrible" . We have to beware of BtT, since he drove TLS to boardicide last season . Alliance Roster (so far) 1. Oo 2. Astro 3. Craig 4. gretchensucks 5. Katy 6. ILT Anyone who wants to join our alliance can post their request in this thread. I hope this doesn't mean that all the above posters (and any others that choose to join) will boardicide when Erinn fails to win S18 - because no matter how much you want it, I doubt that any of you have the ability to change what has already happened (and if you could change past events, I recommend that you focus your abilities not on Survivor but on the stock market) do not wish to join this alliance. Fixed.
Katy Carney		#1902	[-]
Posts: 4912 (03/13/09 12:21 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	gretchensucks wrote: My view on Erinn: I see her as a narrative character, who will probably have some shining moments in the second half of the game...and an outside shot at winning. She has really taken on the role as a foil to Coach (with her comments), and the whipping girl of Tyson (with his comments). Going back to the first impressions for a second, she was called a "bitch" by someone that she seemed to like off the bat. She was obviously not a "bitch" in that scenario. She never has been. I read her sarcasm as positive (to Tyson's negative), and I think we're meant to read it that way...because it's directed at the two most negative people in the game (BTW - one Candace plug to annoy Oo - I saw Candace the same way). All of this editing of her is intended to breed sympathy in her as a character. What I haven't been able to figure out yet is what she's intended for. It is possible that she is intended to overcome and win the entire game (possibly if the exile alliance is taken out, or possibly with the remainder of a decimated exile alliance - they have common enemies). She may also be utilized by the exile alliance to take out their common enemies (Coach and Tyson), thereby leaving her to be cast aside. The only thing to me (edit wise) that gives her legs later into the game was the fact that the editors showed why she has not opened up and gotten close with her tribe (the sob story about the boyfriend). I think that's intended to explain actions later in the game...perhaps why she flips at some point. I think she needs a little more character development and a strategic move or two before she can be considered a front runner...but I certainly would not cross her off a winners list. I agree, that's how I feel as well. I would also throw in the comments during the third episode about how badly she wants to be there. She's not my top pick and I do agree that this episode didn't improve her standing, but she's still in the running in my opinion. I understand the position of those that do not feel she has the edit of a winner, but I'm not going to be lectured about favoritism or bias just because I don't agree. It's tiresome.
dissimilis		#1903	[-]
Posts: 6593 (03/13/09 12:46 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Katy Carney wrote: I agree, that's how I feel as well. I would also throw in the comments during the third episode about how badly she wants to be there. She's not my top pick and I do agree that this episode didn't improve her standing, but she's still in the running in my opinion. I understand the position of those that do not feel she has the edit of a winner, but I'm not going to be lectured about favoritism or bias just because I don't agree. It's tiresome. I couldnt agree more. This episode didnt help her winners chances, but it certainly didnt hinder them. I think its BS that if you think that Erinn is an edgically viable candidate that it means you want to sleep with her. I'm gay and have never tended to like the pretty young girls, never liked Parvati, Amber, etc...Its so beyond stupid at this point. I dont have Erinn as my #1, I think Sierra is still the top choice but Erinn is right there with Stephen as the only 2 other people I think are viable winners at this point.
SJHalle		#1904	[-]
Posts: 47 (03/13/09 12:52 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: Based on my interpretation, Stephen's purpose in the story is proving that he will not be easily led around, not by Sandy, but by Brendan and Taj. I expect he'll be instrumental in getting rid of Brendan, and that it will probably be in order to save JT, and that this will probably happen very early in the merge. A blindside like this would give Sierra the ultimate humble tumble to recover from in the games home stretch. That's very plausible. But if Red boots Brendan early in the merge, won't that force Tyson, Erinn, and Sierra to work together? It will make Stephen\JT a power that Sierra must overcome if she is to win. I think it really depends on which group has the majority and when a move like this would happen. For JT to really even be a plausible boot target in the first place, over a player like Brendan, Jalapao would need to go into the merge with down numbers. The Exile Group has no need as a whole to protect JT, but Stephen himself does, especially if he's going to prove himself as a player that won't be easily led around. Based on all of that I don't see Stephen just sitting quietly in the safety of the Exile Alliance while his best friend JT goes like a lamb to the slaughter. Instead, I could easily see Stephen selling out the Exile Alliance in a situation like this, to players like Coach and Tyson in order to flip the vote onto someone like Brendan, who Stephen has already been shown to recognize as a threat to his own game. On top of that, Coach and Tyson's comments about Brendan last night don't bode well for him, and seem to support an upset like this happening. A counter alliance of sorts, not necessarily a vote divided by any sort of red or black tribal lines. If Coach, Debbie, JT, Stephen and Tyson for instance vote Brendan, Erinn need not be included in this particular vote, leaving her at odds with Tyson and not requiring them to team up later at all. That's all in theory though, and I highly doubt it would go down exactly like that, but the point is to show that a situation like this doesn't necessarily require the Erinn and Tyson theories to be contradicted, and would actually fit quite well with them potentially. I'll admit though that I'm probably being quite presumtuous, and that's really all this is, a possibility. In my defense though, it's a possibility that makes sense when framed with the opening comments of all six players. I think ultimately that working backwards from a Sierra win, we can make the -most- sense, at least on the surface level, of the opening comments, the apparent first impressions theme and the purpose of every player having to overcome those impressions in their respective arches. I LUV TIJUANA wrote: Good post, SJHalle! One thing I wanted to address... Which brings us to Erinn. Ahh, Erinn, so much debate over her edit. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I agree with CL, Blake and many others, she's important to something game changing, but she is not our winner. In a season with edits like Stephen and Sierra's, edits that are so well tended to, it's really silly to fret over an inferior edit (edgically) like Erinn's, although it clearly does have importance and craft. I don't think it's silly to overlook someone with an extremely manipulated edit, especially after Bob won Gabon. Last season, Bob probably had one of the least tended to edits, especially early on. Gabon helps prove that the biggest story is not always the winner, and I think that's important to remember. Erinn may not have the biggest story so far, but everyone seems to agree that she will be important, and who's to say that doesn't propel her to the win. Tyson's opening comment about her could be ironic if he ends up voting for her to win. I understand your thinking, I just don't think Erinn should be written off because there are bigger things to watch at the moment. Thanks ILT :). You know that's a great point, I really am on the fence about Erinn and I agree that we need to closely watch her. There's more care to her edit than someone like, Sydney for instance and it's important to figure out exactly why she's being handled the way that she is. After Gabon especially, it's dangerous to be so sure of anything. I think we all know that she's important, whether she somehow pulls out a win or not. Last season, after the Marcus upset, I always felt really uncomfortable about throwing all of my eggs into the Kenny basket, despite the fact that he seemed edgically perfect, especially when compared to the other players left in the game. I was told outside of last season's edgic thread by a certain edgicer (who will remain unnamed lol), that I would be stupid not to support Kenny because he obviously won and that was that. I was pretty much blindsided by the Bob win, so I won't claim that I ever supported him, quite the opposite, but I think for most of us, our fatal mistake last time was overlooking players like Bob while players like Kenny were still around. Erinn is definitely still on my radar, and I won't completely write her off but I still think better arguments can be made for Sierra and Stephen to win. The difference between Erinn and Bob is that at least an argument is being made for Erinn to win. There really never was an argument for Bob to win and most people, if not everyone, had eliminated him long before the merge and up through maybe the penultimate episode, when spoilers basically confirmed the final three to not include Kenny and everyone had a one in five shot of getting the winner right. Last Edited By: SJHalle 03/13/09 12:57 PM. Edited 2 times.
wallduck		#1905	[-]
Posts: 511 (03/13/09 12:55 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I love that Coach had SPV contradicted by the weather. Brendan MOR3 Coach UTRN2 Debbie INV Erinn UTR1 Joe MOR3 JT OTT4 Sierra MOR2 Spencer CPP4 Stephen CP3 Sydney UTR1 Taj CP5 Tyson MOR2 Winner 1. Stephen: Nice episode for Stephen 2. Sierra: I can't believe it, but I'm getting tempted by the complex tribe theory. Maybe Brendan: Can't count him out, but his edit seems to be narrowing rather than expanding. Erinn: No reason to think she wins, but I appreciate the eye candy. JT: Once again, lots of chances to develop him, but all one-note. Eliminated Coach, Debbie, Joe, Sydney, Taj, Tyson
BenJerry24		#1906	[-]
Posts: 33 (03/13/09 1:11 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Katy Carney wrote: Stephen is my number one choice after last night. He is the only member of the exile alliance edited to believe anything other than "...and now that I'm in this alliance, I win!" X
chaperone		#1907	[-]
Posts: 2615 (03/13/09 1:33 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	kenc333 wrote: And Spencer labelling JT as a possible homophobe could have been left out, but it does reflect upon JT negatively, doesn't it? It reflects negatively on Spencer for judging southern boys. Just because person A thinks person B might judge them doesn't make person B judgmental. It makes person A paranoid, and in this case, the judgmental one. It's Stephen, Sierra, or Brendan in my winner book. Tyson shouldn't have any place on winner lists...he's contributed nothing other than social commentary and witty zingers...and last night got his FIRST strategic contribution to the game which was guessing that Brendan probably has a cross tribe alliance. Erinn's another commentator. "But she was manipulated?" So was Scout. She's not the winner. Of the three, Stephen's the only one with a strategic complexity in the entire game. Is he really with Taj? Is he willing to keep her idol? Does he trust Brendan? Is he JT's whipping boy? Can he run without people laughing?
gretchensucks		#1908	[-]
Posts: 735 (03/13/09 1:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chaperone wrote: kenc333 wrote: And Spencer labelling JT as a possible homophobe could have been left out, but it does reflect upon JT negatively, doesn't it? It reflects negatively on Spencer for judging southern boys. Just because person A thinks person B might judge them doesn't make person B judgmental. It makes person A paranoid, and in this case, the judgmental one. Actually, as a fellow Mo, I don't think it reflects badly on either. While I generally think people who are gay should be "out" in real life...I don't think Spencer's concerns re: JT reflect badly on him. I actually grew up about 20 miles from where Spencer grew up...so I can relate. I think in real life Spencer wouldn't have given a damn, but when you're playing a game based in sociology you have to be smart about it. His observations were his honest observations, and they were not meant in a judgmental way. He wasn't calling JT homophobic, he was explaining how he was defending himself based on his life experiences. Coming from where he comes from, I can understand how he might be cautious when there's a million dollars at stake. At least he was out with the audience...unlike other closet cases (JP comes to mind). But that's a separate issue.
scepticA		#1909	[-]
Posts: 1517 (03/13/09 2:26 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Katy - there are Erinn lapdogs here. You aren't one of them - you look at her edit far more objectively than others. I'm pretty much in the boat with you about her. This wasn't a particularly good episode for her because it didn't expand on who she is - by now we expect the top picks to be reasonably well defined in terms of alliances, their own ideas about the game, etc. We have introspection from her (good on its own) and snark (with which I agree about 100% with). But other than saying she wants to stay, where is she mentally within the game? There is no valid reason right now to put her on the "NOT winning" list - no INVs, no stretch of OTTs, etc., but there are other players in far better shape. She is a valid second-tier maybe right now, along with JT and Brendan IMO. BTW, we do have insight into Tyson's game and how he's going to present himself to the others - as the clown, the goofball. Okay, it basically involves nudity (I guess I never had "Humpy the Naked Clown" at my birthday parties, so am not familiar with that genre of clowning), but at least we have insight. He also is the one who first mentioned to his tribe the possibility of Brendan and mixed loyalties. This shows game smarts and good observation skills - no matter what you think of him, the dude is right. Also, to the best of my recollection, all his villainy and moustache twirling have been in confessionals. Have we seen him in his Mr. Hyde persona in front of other tribemates? Might as well go into the others in terms of winning position. Sierra - The con to her edit is her happiness about the Hidden Alliance, as if it's too much too soon. But that could be simply uncertainty tossed into the mix. Other than that her edgic edit is amazingly strong. Stephen - From what I can recall, the only downside is the lack of "confessional before a certain point in the first episode." But we've seen insight, understanding of the game and of other specific players, and a bit of humility. Fine Vis and ratings #s. His thoughts about keeping his options open re the Hidden Alliance and his possession(!!!) of the HII were the smartest confessionals so far this season by anyone (they reminded me, surprisingly, of a few of Chris's confessionals in Vanuatu.). If you think about it, not only is his edit excellent but his game position is excellent. Of the 4 in the Hidden Alliance, he's in by far the best position yet he was the one with the uncertainty about its benefit. That's a good - and subtle - edit. Tyson - explained above. Brendan - my problem with him is I have the whiff of a certain guy in Survivor Gabon about him whose name started with M. The fact that he's supposedly in danger - perhaps the next boot - is not resolved in me at the moment - it could be a setup for Erinn finding out about it, telling Brendan, who tells Sierra, and he uses his HII and they get rid of Coach instead. (I hope). Nothing terribly wrong with his edit, and he has the intriguing insight of saying why he wants to be here - to win, not for the $. Regardless of whether that's smart or dumb, it gives us insight that we have from Sierra and him only. Erinn - I keep waiting for her edit to get filled in. That's the big issue. Okay, we have insight into her personal background, and we know of the COACHtyson thing, but I simply need more. Even though this was a cool-down of major proportions (1 sentence and 1 confessional is a 1 visibility no matter what) its emphasis was IMO not good. Okay, we saw that Coach is an idiot about nature as well as himself and other people. All Erinn's confessional did was reinforce the obvious editing point already presented to us. It was funny (and I enjoyed it) but it added nothing to her overall edit. Girl, I want to see game, like that "the game is on" moment a la Tina. JT - Yeah, Bobby John. Not enough game in a big episode. He's in the same arena as Erinn right now with me - I need to see game (which doesn't mean going gangbusters at a challenge - I mean the game of Survivor.) If he didn't have the Stephen connection he'd be lower. Edgic-wise, it's not enough, yet. Taj - Way too big. numbers far too high. I should probably put Taj in the Not Winning category based on her Vis. The others are still viable, but any time I feel the need to see "What I really need to see in his/her edit right now is..." probably means that their edit is truly lacking in something. You know? This is about the most fun I've had in a season in a long time.
taks		#1910	[-]
Posts: 46 (03/13/09 2:32 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ratings after second watch + notes: Timbira: Coach: MORN2 - He got a comment which relayed Tyson's opinion of Brendan and his ridiculous weather forecasting scene. The weather scene was put in for the sole purpose of making him look like an arrogant idiot, so the editorial "N" is definitely warranted. Tyson: MOR2 - Commented twice on the possibility of Brendan's alliance with Jalapao (which was the main focus of the first half of the episode). No tone at all for him, he was just stating a hunch which we know is right. No real complexity in his accusations though. Erinn: UTR2/1 - She called Coach a jackass right after he predicted the weather incorrectly and cited his weather predictions as a reason. Her tone (not the edited tone, but her actual tone) was more playful, not really serious or even sarcastic. She is the mouthpiece for the audience, no "N". Debbie: UTR1 - Did not take a single note on her the entire episode. She was there but ignored. Sierra: UTR2 - Very much the same edit as last episode. She had her one comment in which she stated that their alliance was "going to the end no matter what" and that they would "take over the whole world". I don't know how this bodes for her, but it's definitely not a good thing for her chances. She's still got a ridiculously strong winners edit though; this one comment doesn't change that. Let's hope she gets knocked down sometime soon, before she becomes too confident like Gabon's Kenny (he went from an underdog who was actually kind of likable to an arrogant fool). Brendan: MOR3 - Did a lot of the narration for Timbira's side of the Exile Alliance (or Team Secret or the Awesome Foursome or whatever these kids are calling it these days). He also shows confidence by saying how perfectly things have come together and how powerful their position is. Tyson/Coach/Debbie are getting wary of him though; is this the doubt that those in the Exile Alliance need? Jalapao: Taj: CPM5 - Her visibility was absolutely insane. She got a positive edit during the reward challenge, with multiple confessionals exclaiming how happy she was. Then she veered negative in her blowup after the immunity challenge. She explained everything to us, we got inside her head. I have so many notes on Taj this episode that I don't think I could say everything. She's clearly just a huge distraction. Stephen: CP3 - I'm loving his edit. He was shown as skeptical of the Exile Alliance for all the right reasons. He thinks Brendan is a great guy but at the same time is "wary" of him. He's clearly thinking down the road. Taj said she picked Stephen because he was the nerdy guy who just wants to help and this episod we see Stephen saying he will keep the idol in his possession. Stephen is not just there to further someone else's game and anyone who thinks that is not going to go the distance. He then gives us a confessional where he lays out his entire game, explains his alliances and thinks over which boot is going to benefit him the most. Joe: MOR3 - Well he spoke quite a bit in the Jalapao pre-TC discussions, even if he said pretty much nothing. He seems to somehow be linked with Taj in the short term. I'm not sure if that was just to create suspense for the boot this episode, or if that will be an eventual point in Joe/Taj's boot. It is interesting to note that Joe's injury was mentioned twice: once during the challenge (subtitled: "I hit my knee back there") and once when they got back. I expect this to come up next episode. Sydney: UTR1 - No Sydney, Spencer is not interested in you. Spencer: MOR3 - He realized he was in danger but didn't really comment on that any further. We don't know what Spencer attempted to do to stay in the game really or what angles he was going to attempt to play. A lot of his edit seemed to be fairly straight forward reporting. JT: OTTM3 - He was the competitor this episode. His challenge performance was definitely positively edited. His frustration at Spencer veered slightly towards N (although I don't think it was edited quite as negatively as some are making it out to be). While his edit isn't perfect, he is still getting attention from the editors. His last few episodes all gave us far more complexity than this one did, but at least we know why he voted out Spencer. His reasoning might not have been the most complex, but at least it wasn't as WTF? as Sydney or Joe who both appeared to be stronger allies with Spencer and didn't speak about who they were voting off. If we're to give the first impressions motif any weight, JT is still an interesting candidate. I'm not counting him out, but he's not at the top of my list either. Not a perfect analogy, but he does remind me a bit of Aras. Winners Picks: 1. Stephen - Complex for all the right reasons. He is skeptical and all he's using incorrect first impressions of him to his advantage. 2. Sierra - Also complex, every time she speaks she's reflecting on the game. At this point, she seems a little too confident given how early it is in the game. I haven't really doubted her position on her tribe or been worried for her since episode one. 3. JT - Not nearly complex enough to compete with Stephen or Sierra, but of the edits left I feel he has the least holes. He's not super positive any more, but this episode hurt his chances due to his lack of confessionals. His explanations might have been apparent, but they still only showed him explicitly once. 4. Brendan - Since episode one he's gotten a fairly decent edit. However, I'm definitely concerned given how many opportunities he's blown to be complex. All the good confessionals for him are instead given to us by Stephen, Sierra or Taj. He needs also to show some vulnerability very soon. 5/6. Erinn - Her story seems to be all about Coach and Tyson. Interesting edit, but I don't see much winner potential from her. 5/6. Tyson - His story, up until this episode, seemed to be entirely too much about Erinn. Also, there didn't seem to be an attempt to soften the ruthless confessionals he's been doling out the last few episodes. Eliminated: Taj (High Vis) Sydney (INV) Debbie (INV) Joe (Low Vis) Coach (Too N) ETA: I haven't checked Warrior's visibility chart yet, so visibilities are subject to change. Last Edited By: taks 03/13/09 2:58 PM. Edited 1 times.
BenJerry24		#1911	[-]
Posts: 34 (03/13/09 2:34 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	scepticA wrote: Stephen - From what I can recall, the only downside is the lack of "confessional before a certain point in the first episode. Stephen got an intro confessional in the first episode.
taks		#1912	[-]
Posts: 47 (03/13/09 2:38 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yeah, Stephen got a confessional regarding Sandy (before the credits) and then another about being an anxious New York Jew (before the first commercial break). Stephen's first fifteen minutes were actually quite strong considering his game relevance.
astroline		#1913	[-]
Posts: 2081 (03/13/09 2:44 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	gretchensucks wrote: chaperone wrote: kenc333 wrote: And Spencer labelling JT as a possible homophobe could have been left out, but it does reflect upon JT negatively, doesn't it? It reflects negatively on Spencer for judging southern boys. Just because person A thinks person B might judge them doesn't make person B judgmental. It makes person A paranoid, and in this case, the judgmental one. Actually, as a fellow Mo, I don't think it reflects badly on either. While I generally think people who are gay should be "out" in real life...I don't think Spencer's concerns re: JT reflect badly on him. I actually grew up about 20 miles from where Spencer grew up...so I can relate. I think in real life Spencer wouldn't have given a damn, but when you're playing a game based in sociology you have to be smart about it. His observations were his honest observations, and they were not meant in a judgmental way. He wasn't calling JT homophobic, he was explaining how he was defending himself based on his life experiences. Coming from where he comes from, I can understand how he might be cautious when there's a million dollars at stake. At least he was out with the audience...unlike other closet cases (JP comes to mind). But that's a separate issue. Totally agree 10000000000000000%. I grew up about 10 miles from Spencer (next town over), small town in inland central Florida and I feel the same exact way as Spencer. I'm "out" too for the most part but I sure as hell wouldn't be rushing to tell J.T. either. There are plenty of good ol' boys like J.T. in central Florida and even over towards Tampa, so Spencer's experiences (and mine) probably served him right. It was just protection of himself, that's all it was. He was very smart about it and explained why he was doing it.
scepticA		#1914	[-]
Posts: 1518 (03/13/09 2:45 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oops. Re Stephen and the "opening confessional" stuff - I just forgot. yeah. Well, then he's probably my numero uno pick right now - the sheer dichotomy of the reactions of the other 3 vs. his was striking, but it goes along with the impression the editors have of this guy.
chaperone		#1915	[-]
Posts: 2616 (03/13/09 3:47 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	astroline wrote: gretchensucks wrote: chaperone wrote: kenc333 wrote: And Spencer labelling JT as a possible homophobe could have been left out, but it does reflect upon JT negatively, doesn't it? It reflects negatively on Spencer for judging southern boys. Just because person A thinks person B might judge them doesn't make person B judgmental. It makes person A paranoid, and in this case, the judgmental one. Actually, as a fellow Mo, I don't think it reflects badly on either. While I generally think people who are gay should be "out" in real life...I don't think Spencer's concerns re: JT reflect badly on him. I actually grew up about 20 miles from where Spencer grew up...so I can relate. I think in real life Spencer wouldn't have given a damn, but when you're playing a game based in sociology you have to be smart about it. His observations were his honest observations, and they were not meant in a judgmental way. He wasn't calling JT homophobic, he was explaining how he was defending himself based on his life experiences. Coming from where he comes from, I can understand how he might be cautious when there's a million dollars at stake. At least he was out with the audience...unlike other closet cases (JP comes to mind). But that's a separate issue. Totally agree 10000000000000000%. I grew up about 10 miles from Spencer (next town over), small town in inland central Florida and I feel the same exact way as Spencer. I'm "out" too for the most part but I sure as hell wouldn't be rushing to tell J.T. either. There are plenty of good ol' boys like J.T. in central Florida and even over towards Tampa, so Spencer's experiences (and mine) probably served him right. It was just protection of himself, that's all it was. He was very smart about it and explained why he was doing it. Fair enough on a case for caution within the context of the game...I get ya...I probably unfairly overstated my case. Interesting that in the end, Stephen was judged by JT, and we can only wonder whether it would've been compounded based on the knowledge of his sexuality, but as it was, he was judged based on the criteria that Survivor contestants are judged on - which is ... whatever the sociology wishes to judge. I would definitely not argue for an N for either regarding this matter.
Katy Carney		#1916	[-]
Posts: 4926 (03/13/09 3:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Debbie's ratings kill me INV UTR UTR UTR UTR And her one confessional for the whole season so far... I think she wins y'all.
Phoenix1269		#1917	[-]
Posts: 528 (03/13/09 3:56 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BenJerry24 wrote: scepticA wrote: Stephen - From what I can recall, the only downside is the lack of "confessional before a certain point in the first episode. Stephen got an intro confessional in the first episode. actually...he had 2. he had 1 of 6 pre-credits confessionals... and then he had a lovely "before the commercial break" confessional talking about JT & himself & first impressions. eta: sorry taks... didn't realize you answered already !
cindidindi76		#1918	[-]
Posts: 16118 (03/13/09 3:58 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chaperone wrote: Fair enough on a case for caution within the context of the game...I get ya...I probably unfairly overstated my case. Interesting that in the end, Stephen was judged by JT, and we can only wonder whether it would've been compounded based on the knowledge of his sexuality, but as it was, he was judged based on the criteria that Survivor contestants are judged on - which is ... whatever the sociology wishes to judge. I would definitely not argue for an N for either regarding this matter. I'm assuming you mean Spencer? I was kind of confused when I initially read that, lol. So, Brendan's positive comments from the other tribe don't really matter?
gretchensucks		#1919	[-]
Posts: 736 (03/13/09 4:10 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chaperone wrote: astroline wrote: gretchensucks wrote: chaperone wrote: kenc333 wrote: And Spencer labelling JT as a possible homophobe could have been left out, but it does reflect upon JT negatively, doesn't it? It reflects negatively on Spencer for judging southern boys. Just because person A thinks person B might judge them doesn't make person B judgmental. It makes person A paranoid, and in this case, the judgmental one. Actually, as a fellow Mo, I don't think it reflects badly on either. While I generally think people who are gay should be "out" in real life...I don't think Spencer's concerns re: JT reflect badly on him. I actually grew up about 20 miles from where Spencer grew up...so I can relate. I think in real life Spencer wouldn't have given a damn, but when you're playing a game based in sociology you have to be smart about it. His observations were his honest observations, and they were not meant in a judgmental way. He wasn't calling JT homophobic, he was explaining how he was defending himself based on his life experiences. Coming from where he comes from, I can understand how he might be cautious when there's a million dollars at stake. At least he was out with the audience...unlike other closet cases (JP comes to mind). But that's a separate issue. Totally agree 10000000000000000%. I grew up about 10 miles from Spencer (next town over), small town in inland central Florida and I feel the same exact way as Spencer. I'm "out" too for the most part but I sure as hell wouldn't be rushing to tell J.T. either. There are plenty of good ol' boys like J.T. in central Florida and even over towards Tampa, so Spencer's experiences (and mine) probably served him right. It was just protection of himself, that's all it was. He was very smart about it and explained why he was doing it. Fair enough on a case for caution within the context of the game...I get ya...I probably unfairly overstated my case. Interesting that in the end, Stephen was judged by JT, and we can only wonder whether it would've been compounded based on the knowledge of his sexuality, but as it was, he was judged based on the criteria that Survivor contestants are judged on - which is ... whatever the sociology wishes to judge. I would definitely not argue for an N for either regarding this matter. I get the impression that Spencer probably would have done better if he'd been up front and honest with everyone. I think there were some trust issues there (based on the TC confessionals). He's young, still figuring it out, and made a poor choice. As he gets older he'll become smarter about that kind of stuff. Being the Mo on the island can be a powerful position if you play it right, and he still sees it as a negative. I can't judge him for that (because I understand where he's coming from), I just would have played it differently.
boardies20		#1920	[-]
Posts: 67 (03/13/09 5:13 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Jalapao JT - MORM3 - Positive for challenge performance, negative for blowout at Spencer and SPV from Spencer thinking that he might vote against him just because he's gay Joe - MOR3 - Still soooo bland with a higher visibility. Spencer - MOR3 - Worries that he'll be voted off, explained why he felt he couldn't come out, but no real positioning of himself within the game, or any attempt to save himself. Still narrating Stephen - CP4 - Doubts about the Exile Alliance, doubts about Brendan, juggles between the EA and sticking with JT and Joe after merge, holds onto HII and announced it's his Sydney - UTR1 - No Sydney, Spencer is gay Taj - CPM5 - Huge distraction. She was just there the whole episode, everything is about her. the alliance, the RC, the letters from home, the post IC blow up, the TC questions. Timbira Coach - UTRN2 - How can he be so negative, all the time, every single episode? The weather prediction scene purely shown to remind viewers he's just an arrogant jackass Brendan - MOR3 - Highfived with Sierra, showed Stephen around Exile. Still thinks no one knows about the secret alliance when we're shown otherwise. Still only eye candy this season. Debra - UTR1 - Only just saved from INV by one or two sentences re not telling Sierra their doubts about Brendan Erinn - UTR2 - What kind of jackass is he??? Confessionals all about Coach and Tyson. Does she have her own game?? Sierra - UTR2 - Very confident about Exile Alliance. Is that a good thing so early on? Tyson - MOR2 - Caught out Brendan on making connections with other tribe, and plots to vote him out. Winners: 1. Stephen 2. Sierra 3. JT 4. Brendan 5. Erinn

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