Erinn did mention it first, but you bet when that recap comes around at the beginning next episode, they will credit Stephen.Remember Ken? Of course, if Stephen is credited, it likely means that he's in the final 2 and not JT. (I don't think a Stephen/JT final 2 will happen)
0 Kudo
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S-18 Edgic (editing and logic) - Tocantins
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 LKMOSCAR |
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Posts: 6272 (04/23/09 10:20 PM) Registered user |
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 I LUV TIJUANA |
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Posts: 12626 (04/23/09 10:23 PM) Registered user |
Yes, it was brought up by Erinn, but Stephen took the baton and got a million-dollar quote to boot. She didn't even bring him up by name until her confessional.But Erinn probably got her best confessional in terms of winning as well, by saying that she needs to make moves to win instead of letting people make the decisions for her. In a way, I believe the producers may have played up the Erinn/Tyson hate thing to make it look like he didn't like her. Why? Perhaps he votes for her to win it, and it's supposed to be a "shock" to us. |
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scepticA |
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Posts: 1580 (04/23/09 10:54 PM) Registered User |
This blindside was as fun as Mr. NN Doofus in Guatemala. I just wanted him to cry like a little girl.
Erinn was definitely CP. No tone to speak of. I liked her confessional about Sierra - "she's absolutely right", or words to that effect. I do think that some folks here are reluctant to acknowledge that she had a strong episode, as if this will somehow jinx their Stephen/JT choice for winner. Come on - there were still 8 players in the show. That's a lot of individual ratings between now and the finale, and some edits are going to shine other than the winner's. Look at the totality of her story arc, though, and it has huge gaps. By edgic's standards she's not the winner, even though this edit was good. Stephen had a montage and a helicopter shot. It reminded me, oddly enough, of Earl. He had one of the most peculiar shots in survivor history - a slow-mo pan of his face, and then it freeze-framed with upwelling music and a dissolve to the next scene. A frigging freeze frame. It was a specifically tended shot. So too with Stephen. That edit of his on exile sanddune was tended. Definitely a good ep, especially when you couple it with his talk with Taj and Erinn about Tyson. We really don't know who started the conversation, because Erinn's first statement was NOT a "first statement" in any rational conversation (sort of like going up to a complete stranger and saying, "You know, I don't agree with that..." The viewer was left with the impression that the first person to speak the evil Tyson's name was Stephen. JT, still the powerhouse mastermind. Re the reward, I sort of discount it as simple fun, because that's how it was edited. JT thinks the musical instruments are like Banjos, Debbie does her "I love the children" schtick, and Erinn dances, does cartwheels, and spits up. Not a cultural milepost - just fun ("We're hungry," said JT. "We don't usually eat like this," said Debbie.) To put too much N into this is overlooking the intent of the edit - a fun interlude. That's all. Sierra. OTT. Maybe M. No way she was PP. They edited her as pitiable and disliked and saved (to her surprise!) by others. The audience cheered the boot, because it was mean Tyson. Sierra benefited by reflected cheers only. Coach was OTT, but he actually tried to explain his whole warrior thing. It sounds stupid to just about everyone's ears, but he's playing a different game than everyone else. If you sit down at a poker table and say, "I play with honor and will never lie," I'm not sure that makes you all that smart. Especially if you mean it. Taj - Yeah, she spoke. she was invisible, even though she's probably gonna get a UTR1. Tyson. OTTNN. Jerk. Comeuppance. Classic NN. Winner: Stephen, closely followed by JT. But Stephen is my official pick. |
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cantthinkofaname |
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Posts: 1398 (04/23/09 11:28 PM) Registered User |
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cantthinkofaname |
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Posts: 1399 (04/23/09 11:34 PM) Registered User |
I LUV TIJUANA wrote:Yeah, I didn't catch that the first time around. I thought it was Stephen too, but when I did the VF count I discovered it was Erinn. |
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cantthinkofaname |
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Posts: 1400 (04/23/09 11:44 PM) Registered User |
McPhever224 wrote:Well people did give him NN for his last episode. I don't remember how many, but it was discussed. |
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chapera rocks |
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Posts: 10787 (04/23/09 11:50 PM) Registered User |
Upon second watch...
Coach - OTTM4 (Up in the air between M and N. He had a minor P moment with Sierra, so that warrants M?) Debbie - OTTP2 Erinn - CP4 (I don't know what I was thinking with N ... probably that she bashed P Sierra, but upon rewatch Sierra was a lot more N than I remembered) J.T. - CP3 Sierra - OTTM4 (She was no CP in the least. Beating a dead horse, crying, unable to articulate her position ... OTT ... both P and N) Stephen - MOR2 (Why in the world is CP even a consideration for him? "The idols not on exile, that sucks for me because its boring." His "lets blindside Tyson" had NO insight to it. Classic MOR) Taj - INV1 (Poor Taj!) Tyson - OTTN4 (I take back the NN simply because some of his comments to Sierra, while N, were backed up) |
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I LUV TIJUANA |
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Posts: 12627 (04/23/09 11:51 PM) Registered user |
cantthinkofaname wrote:WTF? Where's Warrior? |
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AndreSurvivor |
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Posts: 504 (04/23/09 11:54 PM) |
Preliminary ratings:
Coach: OTTM4 - He was a douche, as usual, but he just didn't feel as overwhelmingly N. Just very delusional. Debbie: MOR3 - She had that great moment at the reward challenge, won immunity and was loved by Tyson. She also argued with Sierra. She was P in spots, but her involvement in Sierra's drama just makes me feel she was neutral. Erinn: CP3 - Since her first-episode confessional tying her to Tyson, we've been waiting for this moment. She got great confessionals about her game, but where does it go after blindsiding Tyson? Not sure. JT: CP3 - I'm going to have to rewatch, but he got all the commentary on the Brendan blindside, and is tied very closely to Coach with handshakes, promises and "taking his word to the bank." Sierra: CPM5 - This one is tough. I can see OTT and CP. I think she was shown explaining herself very well, and offered very coherent points (except at tribal!) about why Coach should keep her around. She's kind of a drip, but she was shown fighting. Stephen CP3 - It was MORy to me as the episode started, but looking back, his trip to exile was pretty good and he closed it off with some great strategy with Erinn and then with JT. It's a weak CP, but I say it's there. Taj: UTR1 - This one's a relief if only because I don't need to justify it. All she commented on was to tell Stephen to let JT know about the plan. Also, she was cold in the challenge. Tyson: OTTN4 - 'Nuff said. |
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LKMOSCAR |
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Posts: 6275 (04/23/09 11:54 PM) Registered user |
Very odd chart results. Debbie had more prominence than Erinn in the episode?
Forza: Coach-OTTM4
Last Edited By: LKMOSCAR
04/23/09 11:56 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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crzypunk2004 |
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Posts: 4452 (04/24/09 12:01 AM) Registered User |
Coach - OTTM4
Debbie- MORP3, mostly narrator stuff at the reward and won the IC Erinn- CP3, She wanted to get rid of Tyson because she wants to win. JT- CP3, he was the "swing vote" Sierra- OTTM5, I don't think she was PP at all either, she had some N moments and the really P moment with Coach. Stephen- MOR3, He was not CP he had a fluff scene at Exile and a strategy session with JT. Taj- UTR1, I know people are going to put INV but she had some fluff RC banter with Jeff and had a short strategy session with Erinn and Stephen. I think people are know who Taj is enough for her to warrant a UTR. But editors please bring back the CP/OTT Taj back and not this UTR borderline INV Taj, Thanks!. Tyson- OTTN4 1. Stephen 2. JT 3. Erinn
Last Edited By: crzypunk2004
04/24/09 12:20 AM.
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taks |
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Posts: 129 (04/24/09 12:16 AM) |
Gonna try a new approach, essentially here are my notes from the episode combined with a rating. They're edited a little but this way I think I can more
accurately convey the story that the editors told throughout the entire episode. I think I'll miss less this way (and be less coherent).
Forza Coach: OTTN - "Victory is mine" "Dragonslayer" "Vanquisher"... FALL ON A DAMN SWORD ALREADY. Wow at the not-so-subtle pan of every single person at tribal laughing at Coach. That was awesome. Will you marry me editors? I hope he gets knocked out next episode, but with the ridiculous decisions people have been making I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed around. JT: CP - Heavily spliced together first confessional in which he starts 4 or 5 consecutive sentences with "Stephen and I". This tells me two things: JT is the mouthpiece of their story and he actually uses proper grammar! Also avoided negative depiction in IC. Edited to be the one making the big decisions. You can bet almost everyone gives the "I don't know what to do" confessional at some point, but JT's always seems to be the one we get. While I don't think he was N (for the Sierra comment), the clear restraint from him being P is refreshing for his chances. They cut to JT after every. single. person. voted. In case you didn't get that, JT IS THE ONE WHO IS MAKING THE DECISION. Tyson: OTTN - Unnecessary personal stabs the entire episode. Talk about comeuppance. Listening to his final words however, what a great character Tyson was. It was slightly annoying that he was clearly doing everything for more screen time, but at least he kept things interesting. Not sad to see him go, however; so good editing. Stephen: MOR - EEK! I don't have him as my winner and that exile scene scared me to death. Why give a non-winner such an extended exile scene when he literally did nothing? Reminds me of Parv tanning on Exile! He was shown just to be shown... Also avoided negative depiction in IC. He definitely should not get a CP for that pre-TC talk, considering how little we got from him besides straight reporting of strategy. Still, good cooldown episode for Stephen who has been so strategically involved it has been getting a little grating. Erinn: CP - I kind of love this girl? Can she and Deb be F2 for me? Very strong episode for Erinn, her supporters should be happy (I myself eliminated her just last episode and she'll stay there). She clearly laid out her game plan and exactly what she needs to do to get to the end. She has the inroads to some very strong connections to the endgame (I don't buy this "next move" any more. The fact that Tyson is gone and she clearly has more loose threads is proof that her story has legs). However, her story just never really picked up in the right places for me. Her episode one was a little too superficial for me (it didn't really seem to start a cohesive story as JT's and Stephen's did) and her last episode was just too weak. Sierra: OTTM - Rewatch her interaction with Coach about being "Strong Sierra". Pay attention to the story that we're being told and the music accompanying it if you have any doubt that Sierra was supposed to be "P" this episode. You're really supposed to feel for her. Now she's so whiny and boring that it's hard to do, but the editors are working overtime for this girl. Oh just kidding, that negative SPV from JT/Stephen coupled with a TC performance where we weren't supposed to care definitely throw her back to "M" category. Debbie: MORP - Reward and IC made her solidly positive. Her not being UTR was wonderful, I love Debbie. Sad that someone so positive found themselves in an alliance with the two most negative people of the season. Ah well... Taj: INV1 - Almost forgot to include her because I had no notes on her. Oh, that eye crossing at Coach was great. No UTRs! Winner: Still JT with Stephen hanging around. Side note: Wish we could have an alternate season in which Debbie/Erinn were the masterminds who were forced to get facetime because they are both great characters. It's a shame we've been robbed of them for so long.
Last Edited By: taks
04/24/09 12:21 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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scepticA |
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Posts: 1581 (04/24/09 12:23 AM) Registered User |
chapera, Stephen and Erinn had the exact same vis count of 32, yet you give one a "2" and the other a "4".
Their impact wasn't all that different. I have no trouble with the MOR and CP you gave 'em - minor dispute, but close enough to my recollection. But those viz numbers you gave were a bit off. |
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augustus713 |
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Posts: 98 (04/24/09 12:42 AM) |
scepticA wrote:He actually gave Stephen a 2 and Erinn a 3, but added one to Erinn because he's a homer, so his rating is understandable. |
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I LUV TIJUANA |
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Posts: 12628 (04/24/09 1:18 AM) Registered user |
I'm not going to go strictly by the Visibility chart this week, and it's not because it's not done by Warrior, I just think that some of the
numbers on it are a bit weird. Math can be funny some times.
Ben- OTTM4- A little bit of positivity? Gasp. Debbie- MORP3- She gets a non UTR episode. Yay! Erinn- CP4- She had more confessionals than anyone (according to my counts with the ten second rule) but I wouldn't argue a 3, or a M. JT- CP3- Close call on the CP-ness, but I think it's probably there. Sierra- OTTM5- A very clear rating, IMO. Stephen- MOR2- Only had one confessional, and I know that according to the chart his visibility was the same as Erinn's, but I don't see it. Taj- INV1- Close call. Tyson- MORN4- I don't really think he was all that OTT. |
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ncassaro |
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Posts: 1030 (04/24/09 1:37 AM) |
Poor Taj. I miss her! Why must the editors hate sassy black chicks that make the merge so much!
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FallenTorch.fantasygamescen... |
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Posts: 92 (04/24/09 5:38 AM) |
Preliminary Ratings
Debbie: OTTP3- Her positivity was overwhelming at the reward and at the immunity challenge. I could see MORP for her narrator type scenes, but feel she was edited to be completely one noted. Erinn: CP4- Enough has been said on her. CP, and how her visibility is 2-3 is beyond me. She was critical this episode. JT: CP3- He was complex, making the decision on the Tyson boot, but some critical moments in regards to the reward/ sitting out of the challenge were ignored. Still, not a terrible episode for his chances. Sierra: OTTM5- I didn't see any complexity in her edit. She never
explained how she was going to survive, only that she had too, and that she was portrayed as a complaining loner who celebrated too early and was left out of
the strategy that saved her. She's a dead woman walking when even hero JT calls her a bitch.
Contenders Erinn Stephen JT |
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getting real |
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Posts: 1665 (04/24/09 6:12 AM) Registered User |
Two major reasons militating against Erinn's winning chances arising from this episode, apart from Blake's valid points about hyper-narration and hemetic tendencies: 1. The continuation of her 'bitchiness' edit, confirming the original, first-episode stated impression of her. Watch the lighting on Erinn's face back at camp after the previous episode recap. Then take note of her reaction to Sierra's plight subsequently. Absolutely intended to invite comparisons with her attitude towards Jerry's ouster. 2. Giving credit for her idea to target Tyson to Stephen. When her words are heard, she is not even on screen; even if this was due to technical reasons, then the sub-titling for Stephen's words emphasizes her neglect even more. And, please note: JT wasn't shown making the decision; he was shown being set up for what will follow as a consquence of him breaking his word. Speaking of JT, there are two points of related manipulation which are likely to prove very significant: 1. At the beginning of the RC, the editors take the time to show us a bemused Taj telling Sierra "Damn, JT is fast.." 2. Stephen's subsequent reference to JT going on a (IC) run. It's clear from these references that either JT does indeed win important IC's - or that it becomes the reason for his demise earlier than he expects. Time will tell. |
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cantthinkofaname |
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Posts: 1401 (04/24/09 6:32 AM) Registered User |
Do you guys really not trust my VF chart?
Anyways, it would make a lot of sense to give Erinn a 3 while giving Stephen a 2 since she's more memorable this episode. But 4? C'mon. |
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Oowatanite |
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Posts: 7406 (04/24/09 7:18 AM) Registered User |
I LUV TIJUANA wrote: flf fired Warrior, for being too stingy on the confessional counts. 
Thanks for pinch-hitting for the 
augustus, I don't know why you're continuing to raise the inaccurate "Erinn hates Tyson" theme when that is clearly not the case, as
others have pointed out repeatedly. And you're really turning into another RVStupid with your silly attacks on CR, etc.
Last Edited By: Oowatanite
04/24/09 7:20 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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- Survivor Sucks
- Lions, Tigers, Survivors - Oh My!
- Survivor Spoilers
- MESS Hall Tribal Council
- MESS Hall Archive
- Survivor Speculation
- Survivor 20+
- The Amazing Race
- Big Brother
- Big Brother - PAST SEASONS
- The Apprentice
- American Idol
- American Idol PAST SEASONS
- The Mole
- Lost
- Other Shows That Suck
- Off Topic
- Clubs That Suck. No, Really.
- The Dump
- Monster Island
- Purgatory
- FAQ
- In Memory, 9/11/01
