AndreSurvivor wrote:
Good, because I didn't want my out-of-the-box choice of Stephen to raise any eyebrows.
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S-18 Edgic (editing and logic) - Tocantins
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 Phoenix1269 |
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Posts: 598 (04/17/09 9:43 PM) Registered User |
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fat little fingers |
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Posts: 6064 (04/17/09 9:51 PM) Registered User |
Last post before hitting the clubs. (Okay, I lie. I've got my jammies on. Which is very weird, because I sleep au naturale.)
cl:I don't know that Stephen has been shown as having the upper hand as much as always being shown thinking in game mode. He schemes, but his tone has never had a bad note. He has been pragmatic game, game, game. I agree that JT has been shown to be naive. But, he's also been shown not to be a saint, but rather a very competitive player. He wants to win and his tooth loss and anger at Spencer showed just how hard he plays. He plots with Stephen. In fact in the last three episodes, they are twins when they talk game . The difference is the repeated trust JT shows. It's naive, but it isn't innocent naivete'. |
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sunflower101 |
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Posts: 4521 (04/17/09 9:53 PM) |
DeadNotSleeping wrote:Yeah but Stephen hadn't ever fully believed in the exile alliance, at least Brendan's part in it. I think he viewed Brendan as some kind of used car salesman. |
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Phoenix1269 |
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Posts: 599 (04/17/09 10:07 PM) Registered User |
DeadNotSleeping wrote:I agree this was an important scene... but what was equally important was the reaction shot that JT had when stephen said that. Between this and how TC went down (JT's 2 greatest allies KNOW he is a jury threat and don't want to go to the end with him), JT now knows where he stands. maybe what happens is that JT wises up and gets rid of his "goofy right hand man"... the audience would totally get it and not think badly of JT.... and really, if he did do this... I don't think Stephen would think poorly of him, either. Stephen knows the game and in fact a move like that would probably secure Stephen's vote for JT. there are always 2 ways to see a scenario... just throwing it out there. |
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DeadNotSleeping |
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Posts: 12 (04/17/09 10:09 PM) |
sunflower101 wrote: That's not the point I was trying to make. This isn't about weather or not Stephen trusts Branden, it is about the fact that Branden wanted to take JT to the finals for him to win, and now Brendan is no longer in the game, because "Stephen and JT" decided so. And that's how the story was told. We were even shown that JT knew that Brendan had every intention of taking him to the end, and he wasn't shown doubting that, and yet somehow we see they decided to take him out, and JT even saw it as his decision. That fits what wev'e seen about Stephen's game so far, making the other person make the decision that's actually best for Stephen. Again, it's a bit understated, but I think it's definatly there. I also think Stephen's reaction to the notion of anyone wanting to go up against JT in the finals is both important, very telling and absolutly true in the actual game - "That's crazy". This whole episode was about how crazy it is to go up against JT at the end. |
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 LKMOSCAR |
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Posts: 6240 (04/17/09 10:11 PM) Registered user |
The final 2 of Stephen and JT seems to be in question more and more as the episodes take place.
I'm trying to think of a theme for this season. Last season's theme was how Sugar's father's death changed the outcome. It's why Bob wasn't some CP player. The story was really about how Sugar ended up choosing a father over a brother. Bob was never invisible. A possible theme for this season may be how although Timbira mostly self destructs, one of its members win. Timbira wasn't shown as a big bomb of a tribe. For them to go back to back to back to back to back to back doesn't fit the edit they had nor that of Jalapao. I could see a final 4 consisting of Jalapao and a Timbiran, but with a Timbiran ultimately pulling out the win. We heard a lot about how Timbira would "stick together", and that hasn't been shown. Maybe the one Timbiran who makes the final will get the votes from Timbira. Will this be what all of those "sticking together" comments meant? Stephen was shown as negative last night in that vote. Brendan wasn't an ass that should have been told off like that. Could this be the beginning of a more ruthless Stephen? If Stephen does start to be negative, I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn on JT. Very rarely, if ever, do we get a duo shown so prominently that make it all the way. Examples, please? In conclusion, the story doesn't need to revolve around the winner, though the winner must be shown, because sometimes it's the theme that ends up being more prominent. I think the theme is trust. The winner will be someone that proved to be trustworthy. If Stephen backstabs JT, or vice versa, that remainder will likely get to the final 2, but they'll lose. The winner is from Timbira.
Last Edited By: LKMOSCAR
04/17/09 10:14 PM.
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DeadNotSleeping |
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Posts: 13 (04/17/09 10:27 PM) |
I agree this was an important scene... but what was equally important was the reaction shot that JT had when stephen said that. Between this and how TC went down (JT's 2 greatest allies KNOW he is a jury threat and don't want to go to the end with him), JT now knows where he stands. Good point. Also possible, I guess, but I don't see the story going that way or Stephen would have been more... negative, I guess. Way more. Also he would probably not have the best edit (which I think he has. Has a winner ever had as strong a P as JT here? I'm asking because I don't know). I don't know if the casual viewer is now in "JT is doing awesome" mode or "JT is in trouble" mode. I'm guessing the former, as he does seem to be super liked and in control of the game, and most players are going "JT is great! I want to keep him!" and not "JT is great! Let's vote him out!". Maybe I don't give enough credit. And also - I just don't see JT turning on Stephen anywhere in the story. Maybe they'll amp up the whole part where he lies to everyone all the time and isn't all that honorable soon, and then maybe if they can have a late game JT-becoming-a-hardcore-gamer arc going. It can actually be pretty great as JT and Stephen would have both learned from one another - Stephen with the outdoorsiness and JT with the scheming. It's nice symmetry. But after this latest episode, I don't know. I have to think it's the other way around for now. I'm gonna try and give the first scene of the first episode it's due weight. |
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Phoenix1269 |
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Posts: 600 (04/17/09 10:52 PM) Registered User |
DeadNotSleeping wrote:i know... they both have really good points and really bad points to the story. I just can't shake the feeling that Stephen's survivor reward is that he learns to "survive"... his survival skills increase from 1/100 to 80/100 (or whatever number) To answer your "too Positive" question... 4, 5 or even 6 positives for a winner by Episode 8 is not unheard of... JT has 5 E2, E3, E4, E7, E8* (and no OTTP, just 1 straight OTT) *unofficial Tom had 6 E1, E2, E3 (OTTP), E4, E6, E7 Amber had 5 E1, E3 (OTTP), E6, E7, E8 Earl had 4.5 E2, E5, E7, E8 (E6 was a mixed so there were some obvious P moments there too) Sandra had 4 E1, E5, E7, E8 She also had 2 straight OTT E2, E3... which back then may have meant she was P??? not sure when tone was introduced as an addition to OTT. Ethan had 4 E1, E4, E5, E8 (E8 was an OTTP5!!) (Bob only had 3) so i don't think 5 Ps for JT is too out there... and i just realized what you were ACTUALLY asking.... and i think Tom's Shark Killing episode was really strong P, and Ethan's E8 "kids in the village" was very P also. and anything by Bob... eta: spelling AND POST # 600 whoot!
Last Edited By: Phoenix1269
04/17/09 10:59 PM.
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Brazil Luvs Ami |
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Posts: 287 (04/17/09 11:13 PM) |
Brendan - CPM4
Coach - OTTN5 Debbie - UTR1 Erinn - CP2 (just like the CP2 I gave for Sierra in E3) JT - OTTP4 or CPPP4 - I'm still in doubt about that, he had pretty compelex confessional, but the episode was all about how great and unbeatable Jt is.... and I think it was bad for his chances, it just made him the obvious winner in the casual viewers perspective.... Sierra - UTR1 Stephen - CP3 - MY Winner pick Taj - MOR2 Tyson - CPN3 Winner: STEPHEN! Not eliminated yet: 2. JT 3. Erinn Eliminated: Coach, Debbie, Sierra, Taj and Tyson ETA: If a Timbira end up winning it I think it will be Erinn, but she's probably the runner-up (I think it's going to be a F2)
Last Edited By: Brazil Luvs Ami
04/17/09 11:16 PM.
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ncassaro |
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Posts: 981 (04/18/09 1:49 AM) |
The way I see it going down:
Bye bye Sierra. Final 7 of Erinn, Coach, Tyson, Debbie, JT, Taj, Stephen. Erinn votes with the three ex-Jalapao.... Bye bye Tyson. Final 4 of Erinn, Taj, JT, Stephen. Taj goes. Erinn wins a crucial immunity and brings Stephen. JT and Stephen never had to vote against each other. Ironically, Coach, Debbie, and Tyson all vote for Erinn to win in a close 4-3 for Stephen. I know this is fan fiction and not edgic, but that's the way I see things going down. It's funny, I have been so hard on Erinn all season but now I love her and have her in my F2.... I'm just a sucker for supreme floaters. BTW when this cast was announced and Jeff was like, "It's better than Gabon" I was like, "horseshit." But as much as I loved Gabon this seriously is refreshing (though more predictable for sure and wayyyy worse location.)
Last Edited By: ncassaro
04/18/09 1:56 AM.
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augustus713 |
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Posts: 81 (04/18/09 2:00 AM) |
ncassaro wrote:Weren't you Erinn fans saying Erinn was going to outlast Tyson and Coach because they were bashing her earlier this season? By that logic, Sierra should outlast Tyson and Coach as well since they've been bashing her now. Can't have it both ways. |
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ncassaro |
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Posts: 982 (04/18/09 2:03 AM) |
Read the thread Augustus. I eliminated Erinn in *episode 3*. Turd.
ETA: I see the confusion now.... I have Erinn in my final 2, but definitely not as the winner. |
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Phoenix1269 |
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Posts: 601 (04/18/09 2:09 AM) Registered User |
DeadNotSleeping wrote:Before we go all hog wild and slap a PP on JT.... lets consider that all of the EXTREME POSITIVE SPV was like 80% from Brendan to his minion Sierra .... and HER SPV of JT was all in response <even if some of it was in a confessional, it was a response to what he said>. I mean, yeah.... JT 's got some super-awesome, make-a-million-if-you-can-bottle-it mojo going on (it works on men! it works on women! you'll be smitten with his pretty country ways!)... but i don't think all of this one-source SPV makes JT a PP. If this were coming in the same epsidoe from EVERYONE... then yeah maybe, but really i think all this JT-McLovin that Brendan has going on really is just a P for JT and makes Brendan OTT... i mean dude.... ya lost sleep trying to figure out how to get someone else to win?? 
just my 2 coins. eta: fixed a couple of minor nigglies as pointed out by DeadNotSleeping. :)
Last Edited By: Phoenix1269
04/18/09 9:43 AM.
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ncassaro |
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Posts: 983 (04/18/09 2:20 AM) |
Who is the Survivor that will be as popular as Rupert? JT. And just like Rupert, he will not win.
I thought when I first watched the episode that it was good for JT... but it really wasn't. I agree with the CPPP rating. As for Stephen, a CPP3 is a great rating to get for his chances.
Last Edited By: ncassaro
04/18/09 2:22 AM.
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augustus713 |
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Posts: 82 (04/18/09 3:06 AM) |
ncassaro wrote:When did I say anything about winner? I just said by the same logic that Erinn fans have her going further than Tyson and Coach (which I agree with), Sierra should also outlast Tyson and Coach. |
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getting real |
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Posts: 1642 (04/18/09 3:43 AM) Registered User |
^^^
She will. And she will also. |
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dcsurvivor |
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Posts: 273 (04/18/09 4:10 AM) Registered User |
maybe what happens is that JT wises up and gets rid of his "goofy right hand man"... the audience would totally get it and not think
badly of JT.... and really, if he did do this... I don't think Stephen would think poorly of him, either. Stephen knows the game and in fact a move like
that would probably secure Stephen's vote for JT.
I think this is just what may happen. JT said early on that he wanted people to think he was a hillbilly and he would do whatever to win the game. He is not as naive as you may think. With Stephen's, why would Brendan want you in the finals comment and his TC comment about JT being a target and he was glad. I think JT will realize that Stephen will not let him near the finals or maybe Stephen confides to Taj, who in return tells JT of his plans. However, I don't see JT blindsiding Stephen. I do see Stephen trying to blindside JT, though. For some reason, Stephen feels like the F4 loser to me. At this point, it would be mindblowing if a Timbera member ended up winning this. Who would it be? Erinn? Debbie? Hopefully, not Tyson. That would truly suck......... |
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FallenTorch.fantasygamescen... |
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Posts: 78 (04/18/09 6:22 AM) |
Just my two cents on contenders.
In my mind, this episode severely hurt JT's chances. No winner should be PP or have this much SPV in one episode (unless they are a boot target ex: Yul) This whole episode built up JT as a player who cannt be in the finals, and in my mind, he won't be there. Otherwise his win would be too obvious. I know they did the same thing with Amanda in S16, but JT's positive comments are completely overwhelming compared to the "Amanda won't lose a jury vote comments". If JT makes it to the end, I'm pretty confident that he would win. With that being said, I don't think JT will be there in the end. Right now my top two contenders are Stephen and Erinn. Stephen is the classic CP player hidden by JT (this episode clearly showed JT is hiding Stephen, not the other way around). There's not much to say on Stephen, as his case is pretty cut and dry. And then there's Erinn. (This might be biased, as I am rooting for Erinn, but her claim for victory is still legitimate) Assuming the theory that Episode 7 and Episode 8 were actually two parts of the merge (I'm not crazy about this theory by the way)...Erinn has a shot. She pointed out in Episode 7 that as soon as she removed the idol and either Brendan or Sierra, then she could really begin playing the game. Well come Episode 8, Brendan and the idol are removed. Perhaps Erinn will finally begin playing the game as her strategy at this point has been more along the lines of Sandra- anyone but her. Also, Erinn's chances looked grim because she did not comment on Joe leaving last episode, but this episode, Erinn had a whole scene dedicated to Joe and how she's using this alliance in order to build new alliances. For only having one alliance all game, and having it come to really nothing so far, it's being played up a lot. Erinn's also got a shot because Timbira has not been shown as the stupidest tribe in Survivor history right now. If all three Jalapao's were going to control the game, don't you think Timbira would be editted more negatively? During Erinn and Jt's talk, a final four amongst the four of them was mentioned and highlighted. Right now this looks very plausible barring an immunity win by one of the other four players in the game. Erinn had the opening confessionals, she fit the role of first impressions, as she has not been shown as a bitch (in fact she did explain why she comes off as aloof- the whole boyfriend situation. She's been the most visible female post merge- even more visible than Taj the super visible premerge player, and Erinn still has a story arc- taking out Tyson/Coach, finally getting to play her game, and every step of the way, she'sm entioned how she has room to work. She's sticking around, and if a Timbira wins, it'll be Erinn. With that all said, Stephen is still my number 1 pick, followed by Erinn. |
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McPhever224 |
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Posts: 222 (04/18/09 9:31 AM) Registered user |
I really think JT is gonna start getting the Amanda edit, where everyone says if she/he faces the jury how could he/she lose and then when they do end up
facing the jury they end up falling short.
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DeadNotSleeping |
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Posts: 14 (04/18/09 9:34 AM) |
Phoenix1269 wrote: The last one was actually Taj's quote, and part of Sierra's quotes were from a confessional, not a direct response to Brendan, if I am not mistaken, but I see what you're saying. I guess the point for me is that Brendan isn't some OTT whatever guy who's opinions are irrelevant. he's been edited as (and obviously is) a very smart guy who knows what he's talking about, all season long. He's right about Coach, why would he not be right about JT? When the spirit of what he says is supported by two other players this episode, along with at least one last episode, I guess I think dismissing it as Just Brendan Going Kookoo doesn't seem right. Basically, all the stuff Brendan says? They're supported by the editing of this episode and of the season as a whole. The episode may depict him as going a bit too far with it, but it doesn't mean he's wrong. The episode, I felt, is telling you that JT is in fact all of those wonderful things, and more! He's also somewhat of a gamer, in an adorable way. It just feels completely different from a simple positive edit. We were told, and shown, and then told again, and then there was a dance, and then told again, all to make sure we GET THE POINT - JT's a Great Guy. Really. Really great. JT's positiveness was like an extra character that people referenced. That's more then a mere positive tone. Or it kind of should be, I think? But yeah, what the fuck happened to Brendan in reality? Is JT actually, in the reality of the situation, made of Magic? Maybe the editors had no choice but to depict him this way. CP4 for JT! |
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- Survivor Sucks
- Lions, Tigers, Survivors - Oh My!
- Survivor Spoilers
- MESS Hall Tribal Council
- MESS Hall Archive
- Survivor Speculation
- Survivor 20+
- The Amazing Race
- Big Brother
- Big Brother - PAST SEASONS
- The Apprentice
- American Idol
- American Idol PAST SEASONS
- The Mole
- Lost
- Other Shows That Suck
- Off Topic
- Clubs That Suck. No, Really.
- The Dump
- Monster Island
- Purgatory
- FAQ
- In Memory, 9/11/01
