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 CrystalOwnage |
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Posts: 184 (04/04/09 8:59 AM) |
Todesco10 wrote:That wasn't a twist, that was just luck. And the bottle twist and final three ALWAYS favored him, because without them he can't win. All I am saying is that he is overrated and shouldn't be this high. |
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Todesco10 |
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Posts: 145 (04/04/09 9:03 AM) |
That is what is disputable. You said without them he can't win but that's not true. There's always lots of different ways a person can get to the
end and win. Even if he doesn't dominate his way through the game like he did, he could've won by a different path, so we can't say it was
necessary to have all those twists. If you are somebody who is not good with the jury like Hatch or Brian or need the right person to take you to the end like
Tina or Sandra then you can only win in a few ways. Somebody like Yul who is good enough in challenges and could win against even Ozzy has more options about
how they want to go to the end.
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 Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 9194 (04/04/09 9:07 AM) |
Yul only got to the end because of the final 3 twist. Also, Rich would've beaten 3/4 of his opponents in the final 5, so don't push your anti-early season bias on him. |
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CrystalOwnage |
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Posts: 185 (04/04/09 9:08 AM) |
Todesco10 wrote:You can't assume that Yul beats Ozzy in challenges. Without the bottle twist Aitu goes into the merge 6-4 and gets Pagonged. Without the final three Ozzy wins final immunity and takes Becky. Give me one realistic scenario where Yul wins without any twists. |
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CrystalOwnage |
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Posts: 186 (04/04/09 9:11 AM) |
Todesco10 wrote:  ...Hatch gave a great jury performance.
And the only people in the final 5 he couldn't beat were Sean and Rudy. Neither of whom he planned to go with to the end. |
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CrystalOwnage |
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Posts: 187 (04/04/09 9:12 AM) |
Double Post
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Todesco10 |
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Posts: 146 (04/04/09 9:15 AM) |
Kitty Pryde1 wrote: Hey Christa! I don't have an anti-early season bias. I don't think people should blame the early seasons who didn't have twists and I don't think anybody in the later seasons should be blamed for having them. You wouldn't say that Hatch is not a good winner because he would've lost against Rudy in a final 3 right? Without the bottle twist we really don't know what would have happened. We can't say for sure they will get Pagonged as it didn't happen in Vanuatu or Guatemala. Without a final 3 we don't know who wins that final challenge or how much harder people would've tried in the final 4 one. Without those twists it completely changes the entire game and everybody's strategies. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 9195 (04/04/09 9:24 AM) |
No mutiny: The game plays out until the merge where Candice, Sundra & Jonathan jump over to Nate, Adam & Parvati, screwing Yul over.
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Todesco10 |
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Posts: 147 (04/04/09 9:31 AM) |
Without a mutiny it changes way too many things. We can't even begin to assume what would happen. Candice might have changed her mind or even been voted
out before the merge like she'd feared. Even if Yul didn't win with the Aitu 4 he was still very powerful in that game with the Terry idol. Even if
he didn't have that we don't know if he'd do what Danni did. Without a final 3 we don't know if Yul/Becky win the final 3 and then take each
other anyways. We know that those twists didn't hurt him because he won but saying that he needed them is a different matter.
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JackSparrowBauer |
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Posts: 446 (04/04/09 9:33 AM) |
Yul did benefit from the producers, so he will always have an asterisk next to his name.
Parvati benefitted from something the producers had no control over, so her win is completely legit. Parvati making the top 3 <3<3<3<3<3 I hope she wins. |
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Middle Kingdom |
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Posts: 443 (04/04/09 9:43 AM) |
Whoa this is almost done. I still think Todd should be in this top 3 but I'm alright with them all.
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Quiddity |
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Posts: 5175 (04/04/09 9:43 AM) Registered User |
Is Ravu here with a new name? j/k. If it really was Ravu, these posts would be thousand of words long.
Hey Christa! I don't have an anti-early season bias. I don't think people should blame the early seasons who didn't have twists and I don't think anybody in the later seasons should be blamed for having them. You wouldn't say that Hatch is not a good winner because he would've lost against Rudy in a final 3 right? Without the bottle twist we really don't know what would have happened. We can't say for sure they will get Pagonged as it didn't happen in Vanuatu or Guatemala. Without a final 3 we don't know who wins that final challenge or how much harder people would've tried in the final 4 one. Without those twists it completely changes the entire game and everybody's strategies. We're talking here about comparing players within the same season and across multiple seasons with respect to their gameplay. How many other winners had the unbroken HII? Zero. How many other players in Cook Islands even had a chance to look for the HII? 1 out of 19 other players. How many other players had the benefit of winning a challenge that resulted in two people from the other tribe being voted out? 0 other winners, and only 3 other players in the show's history, Yul's tribemates. How many other players in Survivor history fail to make the finals and win because the F3 is a F2? Earl. Thats probably about it. And don't say we don't know who wins that final challenge; I think Ozzy's track record is pretty damn good to say that he's likely beating Yul. I'd say the only truly fair way to do this thing is to remove Yul entirely from the equation. No other winner had such an absurd amount of luck based twists effect his game, all in a positive way that he doesn't win the game without. |
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seltzer3 |
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Posts: 1076 (04/04/09 9:44 AM) Registered User |
Actually Ozzy would take Yul to the final 2 had he won. Ozzy likes to see himself as the best competition to the end guy. I believe it, because Ozzy was so
incredibly dumb in Cook Islands.
After Adam got out, Yul had a free ride to the finals, whether it be final 2 or final 3. The irony is that the person of the final 4 that was least likely to take Yul (although 95% would take him) was Becky. |
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Todesco10 |
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Posts: 148 (04/04/09 9:51 AM) |
Quiddity wrote: I understand what you're saying but your problem seems to be with the twists instead of gameplay. You can't hold twists against somebody because the reverse would have to apply as well. If you put all those things in the other seasons everything would change and a lot of the winners probably would've lost. The best thing is just to see how the individuals played the game instead of looking at their power in the game. A person can have a lot of control in the game but not be a good player. Then you can have somebody like Tracy who is powerless but be a very good strategist. |
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Burrito Taco |
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Posts: 1907 (04/04/09 9:59 AM) Registered user |
I hope Yau or Parvati wins and Rob gets second again.
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 9197 (04/04/09 10:01 AM) |
JackSparrowBauer wrote:Yul benefitted from something unexpected that he had no control over. Parvati did too. The difference is that Yul, while he might not have won, was not guaranteed to be the next boot, had the twists not occurred. Parvati's asterisk will always be bigger than his. |
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Impact Blue |
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Posts: 432 (04/04/09 10:07 AM) |
Burrito Taco wrote:I am glad Yau Man made it past 4th without having victory stolen from his clutches again! |
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Nightrider |
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Posts: 638 (04/04/09 10:18 AM) |
Robfather ftw!
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Katy Carney |
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Posts: 5345 (04/04/09 10:19 AM) |
I guess it's settled. Parvati = the best winner ever.
Suck on it, you jealous Cirie-loving fanatics who cannot accept she was Shallowned. |
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Penthesilea |
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Posts: 208 (04/04/09 10:24 AM) |
Katy Carney wrote:X |
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