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Katy Carney wrote:

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ribald2008 wrote:

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The twists didn't inherently give Aitu or Fang an advantage. Twists change the game up, but ultimately the way the players adapt and react to that determine whether they become advantageous or not. Played a different way, the become disastrous. In the case of Cook Islands, the twists were not advantageous to the Aitu 4 in and of themselves, as the mutiny put them at a "disadvantage" in the 1st place. If there are no twists like the bottle twist, then they are never down in numbers to begin with. In Gabon, you might actually say the swaps favored Kota who had a numerical advantage on both tribes. The reason why Kota didn't come out on top was the strategy and decisions that were made

I disagree. Without the mutiny Candice would've just flipped post merge in secret. A far worse scenario for Aitu. Without the bottle twist Aitu would be hopelessly outnumbered. Without the ridiculously powerful HII, Aitu would've been fucked. Without any ONE of those twists, Aitu would've been pagonged. The combination of the three is the only thing that saved them. Gameplay played a part in it, sure (they did have to win challenges post mutiny and Yul did have to flip Jonathan, so they aren't without merit) but no twists = no Aitu success.

In Gabon the twists completely turned the tide for Fang, and even then they couldn't seal the deal. In CI it was a toss up who would get the idol and who would lose the challenge with the bottle twist, but in Gabon the twists were obviously catered to Fang's disadvantage. The only thing that Fang did right was unintentional: losing the challenges. That gave them a steady stream of people from the opposite tribe to vote out. Gameplay had maybe 1% to do with it. The twists saved them from their own disastrous gameplay, and when there were no more twists they finally dissolved.

Anyway, twists played a huge part in both situations. The difference is that you can credit Aitu with something. They actually worked hard, won challenges and achieved a goal (of course it helped that Sundra and Becky were agenda-less sheep, and that Ozzy didn't know it was a F3). Fang just fell backwards into some incredibly good luck, did nothing right (which helped them to a point), and then lost anyway. They were nothing alike save from the impact twists had on their game.

Without all the twists, we can't say for sure what would happen. For instance, without twists, Nate wouldn't have been kidnapped, and Candice and Nate wouldn't have had a chance to come up with their black & white vs. asians alliance. The fact that some of you people have left that fact out shows exactly what kind of people you are (and it's the same people who constantly complain about the minorities getting ahead of course). Plus, even if everything stays the same and we're allowing the twists that help Raro only, that still doesn't mean Jonathan changes sides with Candice, given that he would realize that Raro is not his true allies like he realized when he mutinied. So that means it's still 5 Aitu vs. 3 Raro and Candice assuming that there everything plays out like it did. Without a bottle twist, that's still 5 Aitu vs. 4 Raro + Candice. That's assuming that Jenny was eliminated without the help of the original Raro alliance, which isn't definite, since Nate voted with Jenny at that tribal council. Even if all this happens, Raro would need to not vote for Yul, which they failed to do. No matter what the Aitu 4 were a force and it was because they were a strong smart tribe that won challenges and stayed loyal to each other, not because they got numerical advantages from twists or swaps like Raro actually did. It's pathetic that racists are complaining about a small advantage Aitu might have gotten from a bottle twist when Raro is the one that got a 4 person net gain advantage (2 people gained, 2 people lost on Aitu) with the mutiny twist. The twists that you are choosing to be "fair" conveniently only help out your favorites, instead of complaing about the 1st swap or kidnapping. You can't take twists out of the equation, because that's an integral part of the game like tribes or immunity challenge

I'm not even going to talk about Gabon. It's obvious that things could've gone either way but strategy and challenge ability tilted the scales in Fang's favor

Katy Carney wrote:

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Fei Long Dragon wrote:

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Without all the twists, we can't say for sure what would happen. For instance, without twists, Nate wouldn't have been kidnapped, and Candice and Nate wouldn't have had a chance to come up with their black & white vs. asians alliance. The fact that some of you people have left that fact out shows exactly what kind of people you are (and it's the same people who constantly complain about the minorities getting ahead of course). Plus, even if everything stays the same and we're allowing the twists that help Raro only, that still doesn't mean Jonathan changes sides with Candice, given that he would realize that Raro is not his true allies like he realized when he mutinied. So that means it's still 5 Aitu vs. 3 Raro and Candice assuming that there everything plays out like it did. Without a bottle twist, that's still 5 Aitu vs. 4 Raro + Candice. That's assuming that Jenny was eliminated without the help of the original Raro alliance, which isn't definite, since Nate voted with Jenny at that tribal council. Even if all this happens, Raro would need to not vote for Yul, which they failed to do. No matter what the Aitu 4 were a force and it was because they were a strong smart tribe that won challenges and stayed loyal to each other, not because they got numerical advantages from twists or swaps like Raro actually did. It's pathetic that racists are complaining about a small advantage Aitu might have gotten from a bottle twist when Raro is the one that got a 4 person net gain advantage (2 people gained, 2 people lost on Aitu) with the mutiny twist. The twists that you are choosing to be "fair" conveniently only help out your favorites, instead of complaing about the 1st swap or kidnapping. You can't take twists out of the equation, because that's an integral part of the game like tribes or immunity challenge

Nate's conversation is not why Candice flipped. It had absolutely nothing to do with it. She was closer friends with Parvati and Adam and she knew she would be top dog on Raro, unlike on Aitu. Candice and Nate's "plan" was cooked up with Sundra. That was a non-issue. Nothing came of it.

Jonathan may or may not have flipped with Candice, but he wouldn't have spent that time on Raro to grow to resent them if there was so mutiny, and Yul wouldn't have known about Jonathan's switched loyalties to use the idol against him.

Jenny wouldn't have been eliminated if there was no bottle twist. It would've just been Rebecca. And Yul's idol WAS a twist, so... You must be confused. I don't think you know very much about the season. Without any ONE of those twists, Aitu would have been decimated.

lol @ your theory that the white man is just trying to discredit the accomplishments of minorites. First of all, you have no idea what race I am. Secondly, Jenny and Nate were part of the group that got screwed by the twists that saved Aitu, which you conveniently ignore because you have absolutely no valid points (which is so typical of people who like to play the race card when other people don't like their favorites).

You don't know what you're talking about. Candice would probably not have flipped if she didn't get confirmation from Nate, that he and Adam were running things over on Raro, and that he was open to working with her and Sundra. It'd be even more risky had she mutinied from her final 3 alliance to Raro if say Nate, Rebecca, Jenny, and Brad were running things on Raro. That would be idiotic. She knew she could be the top dog of Raro because of that conversation. It's only a non-issue to you because you didn't think things through. I could argue about the other things but you're already dead wrong because of this point alone. I do know that you like all the cute girls, and Raro had 2 which you've vocally expressed liking already, so it's obvious where your favortism is