SenseiKreese wrote:Definitely. That final tribal was Neleh's to lose..and she lost it. The Rotu 4 weren't bitter, they just wanted to lose to a player they could respect.
Didn't he say he wanted her to apologize to him or something?
No, his jury question was "Why should I, Johnny Pots and Pans, give you my vote?" Everyone and their mother here at Sucks has always interpreted that as "John wanted her to apologize" but I think he wanted her to say, "Because I kicked your ass and because I was the best player here." All John wanted was to say he lost to a champion. I think that's all that most Survivor jurors ever want. But Neleh wasn't going to do that because she didn't have cutthroat in her.
I hate to put words in John's mouth since he does post here once in a while, but I've always felt he gets a bum rap from the "He was a whiner who just wanted an apology" crowd. I don't think he was looking for an apology at all. Yet after five years, that's a Survivor Urban Legend that is essentially treated as fast.
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Sugar's strategy
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 Kirblar |
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Posts: 7138 (12/15/08 12:40 PM) Registered user |
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SenseiKreese |
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Posts: 2823 (12/15/08 12:43 PM) Registered user |
Absolutely. She had every chance to win that season.
There's no such thing as a bitter jury. |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 6596 (12/15/08 12:45 PM) Registered user |
SenseiKreese wrote:ASS had a bitter jury. Rob could have been a saint and they still wouldn't have voted for him. |
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Kirblar |
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Posts: 7140 (12/15/08 12:45 PM) Registered user |
Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: Yeah, Rob had absolutely nothing to do with that. 
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 6597 (12/15/08 12:49 PM) Registered user |
He played the game. He offered Lex friendship after the game was over.
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SenseiKreese |
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Posts: 2825 (12/15/08 12:49 PM) Registered user |
Well yeah both of you are right. Rob did cause most of that, but at the same time All-Stars was sort of a unique season because the jurors knew the players
ahead of time so there were preconceived notions. So that's one you can sort of make a case could have been a bitter jury (Micronesia too). Every other
season, however, the players all entered the game on an equal playing field, so there's no such thing as a bitter jury. A jury is just there to react to
events that happened during the game.
I just get around this by saying that All-Stars wasn't a real season. That helps me sleep through the night. :) |
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5urvivor |
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Posts: 307 (12/15/08 12:50 PM) |
SenseiKreese wrote:He said it as he was casting his vote I think. If it wasn't an apology it was something else. I can't remember but he was looking for something from Neleh, and she didn't do it |
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SenseiKreese |
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Posts: 2826 (12/15/08 12:51 PM) Registered user |
Yeah I forget what he said, but it wasn't apology. I was like "I was looking for a reason to vote for you, and you never gave it." I know he
never used the word "apology."
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Soviet |
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Posts: 117 (12/15/08 12:52 PM) |
SenseiKreese wrote: I disagree with that. There is definitely such a thing as a bitter jury. Some jurors are more irrationally bitter than others due to no fault of the contestants |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 6598 (12/15/08 12:53 PM) Registered user |
He was looking for her to be honest about stratagy. Vecepia is massively underrated, but she got very lucky that Neleh was incompetent at jury management.
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SenseiKreese |
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Posts: 2827 (12/15/08 12:53 PM) Registered user |
I disagree with that. There is definitely such a thing as a bitter jury. Some jurors are more irrationally bitter than others due to no fault of the contestants I think that argument is pretty much dependent on which player you agree with. |
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PrettyGoodYear1988 |
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Posts: 1727 (12/15/08 12:58 PM) Registered user |
How a Juror votes is really based on them. Yes, I'm disgusted by hypocritical players like Marcus who get all moralistic about getting stabbed in the
back, especially when they pull the, "You're supposed to be a role model!" card. However, a Juror is allowed to vote however they'd like,
and in the end it's up to the finalists to tell each Juror what they want to hear to the best of their ability. Like all things in Survivor, it comes down
to your powers of observation. Intentionally or not, Bob gave a great answer when he told the Jury, "I didn't outplay or outwit you," because
that's exactly what people like Marcus and Corinne wanted to hear.
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trackmiler |
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Posts: 24 (12/15/08 1:44 PM) Registered User |
SenseiKreese wrote: I believe Sugar might have received a few votes, perhaps even won, if she had played the game with less emotion, and not made it so personal. For example, there was no need to manipulate Bob into having Randy playing the fake idol. Randy was going anyway. Corrine's behavior toward Sugar was despicable, of course, but there might have been a way for her to get along more with others who wound up on the tribal council. Almost everyone on the council had been betrayed by Sugar, so how could she expect their votes? Kenny blindsided many people, but somehow he managed to make it less personal, more of a game. That said, if she had gone to the final council with Crystal and Susie, she might have had a chance of winning, and it was because of her decision to boot Crystal that she wound up in the final council competing against two more mature individuals who had not alienated the jury as she had done. |
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Manila ESQ |
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Posts: 170 (12/15/08 1:57 PM) Osten |
Kirblar wrote: If there were a Rotu 5, and the fifth member was part of the final 2, that 5th member would have won too. In Gabon, the Kota 4 stuck with their 5th member. |
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Manila ESQ |
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Posts: 171 (12/15/08 2:00 PM) Osten |
PrettyGoodYear1988 wrote:Bob also stopped when Corinne wanted her to stop. He also did not give any answer to Matty's "trick" question. In the Final tribal council, Bob played to win. So did Susie incidentally. |
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gab500 |
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Posts: 1050 (12/15/08 4:26 PM) Registered user |
Kirblar wrote:This is only true when you have a jury that respects gameplay and strategy and is not bitter about being outplayed and voted out. It certainly was true in China (it's probably why Amanda lost), but in other seasons (including Gabon) this strategy wouldn't have worked with many of the jury members because they were so bitter and wanted their egos/emotions massaged by the final contestants. |
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Quiddity |
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Posts: 4291 (12/15/08 5:17 PM) Registered User |
There's no such thing as a bitter jury. X. The only rule about jury voting is that there's never been any rules. You can vote whatever way you want for whatever reason. Voting for someone because they played the best strategic game, where the nicest to you, or because they picked the right number *cough* Kelly G, Shane *cough* are just as valid reasons as any other reason. You lost because you didn't get enough jury votes? You didn't play the game well enough. Too bad. |
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A Dying Clown |
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Posts: 7217 (12/15/08 5:24 PM) Registered User |
Sugar had a very important character trait that players like Neleh and Lill and Crazy Matt never had. She was smart enough to know how she comes off to people.I think she's one of the least self-aware finalists in a while - players like Katie and Courtney were much more aware they had no chance of winning (and it seemed Matt at least knew how people saw him by the end, though how to remedy it is another issue); Sugar knew the odds were against her at the end but she'd have to be completely delusional not to. It's not like Sugar said in her jury speech, "I know none of you will vote for me because of certain flaws in my personality." She said she hoped to get a couple of votes, without saying why, and said she'd played a good social game, which was wrong, given she got got several people to hate her more than Dreamz. |
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PrettyGoodYear1988 |
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Posts: 1745 (12/15/08 5:24 PM) Registered user |
Back to Sugar. Her post-show interviews are interesting. She is very open about doing what she thought "America would want." The fact that
she's being so blatant about it probably means that the producers didn't ask her to do anything. She's still pretty interesting, though.
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SenseiKreese |
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Posts: 2829 (12/15/08 5:29 PM) Registered user |
Yeah it's possible she just went into it with a "Let's just make a good TV show" mindset. That wouldn't surprise me at all. Frankly
I'm surprised more people don't do that.
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