Susie... Five Years later...

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finishthemoff	Susie... Five Years later...	Lead	[-]
Posts: 13804 (12/15/08 1:49 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Will she be forgotten or another Lill who is actually became more respected as a player down the road? Discuss.
Stranded		#1	[-]
Posts: 2319 (12/15/08 1:58 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	People respect Lill?
finishthemoff		#2	[-]
Posts: 13806 (12/15/08 2:08 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	A lot more now than before.
craig		#3	[-]
Posts: 14533 (12/15/08 3:09 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sugar is the Lill of this season. Strategic endgame control but pissed off or betrayed everyone. Susie wasn't in Ken and Crystal's F3. Sugar had no relationship with her and almost booted her 5th. Fang voted for her mostly on tribe loyalty. She was Matty's pawn and Matty was controlled by Sugar.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#4	[-]
Posts: 6555 (12/15/08 7:40 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Two totally different approaches. Lill had a very bad social game and seemingly lacking strategic skills, like Dreamz or Sugar for example. I would compare Susie more to Cassandra from Fiji or maybe Neleh from Marquesas.
finishthemoff		#5	[-]
Posts: 13809 (12/15/08 8:31 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: Two totally different approaches. Lill had a very bad social game and seemingly lacking strategic skills, like Dreamz or Sugar for example. I would compare Susie more to Cassandra from Fiji or maybe Neleh from Marquesas. LIll's social game is NOT bad. She was on the out of infamous Morgan Five (Check www.andrewsavage.com), but she did suprisingly good job adapting to gameplay whenever possible.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#6	[-]
Posts: 6562 (12/15/08 9:11 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yes it was. She was a total neurotic who couldn't garner any support from the jury.
menelaus		#7	[-]
Posts: 56 (12/15/08 9:45 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Lill's social game was miserable. She wasn't even voted back into the game, she was voted OUT of the loser lounge... and she always had some sort of a frown on. Susie was an excellent player who made smart moves consistently, but lost because Bob was in the F3, and the onions were definitely going to vote bob no matter what.
PrettyGoodYear1988		#8	[-]
Posts: 1711 (12/15/08 9:57 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't know. I respected Lillian's game at the time because I felt, of the Final 2, she actually played the game harder, and it was clearly visible in the editing. Susie is more like Cassandra to me. She played the game hard, too, but we rarely got to see it except in Insider clips and interviews. I'm not sure a horrible edit can be overcome so easily, though. People still don't generally respect Cassandra, but since Susie got three votes, maybe they'll be more inclined to respect her.
finishthemoff		#9	[-]
Posts: 13820 (12/15/08 10:14 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Lill didn't win because she was a member of outcast tribe. Her social game has no actual bearing.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#10	[-]
Posts: 6574 (12/15/08 10:18 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Her social game had bearing because she was the third person booted. For all of this talk about Savage being an asshole, he really was just being pragmatic. Look, Darrah had no social game period and she was accepted into the alliance. Lill is too much of a wildcard to be a dependable allie.
finishthemoff		#11	[-]
Posts: 13824 (12/15/08 10:22 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: Her social game had bearing because she was the third person booted. For all of this talk about Savage being an asshole, he really was just being pragmatic. Look, Darrah had no social game period and she was accepted into the alliance. Lill is too much of a wildcard to be a dependable allie. Ryno LIKED Darrah. Ryno had a HARD-ON for Darrah. That is the only reason why she outlasted Nicole. Lill is an older lady of the tribe who was on the out of the alliance. it was only a matter of time before she and Ryan S. were oust. That is why outcast tribe was so sweet. Lill's social game is NOT an issue on why she lost. Sandra would have lost to everyone but Lill (even Ryno and Darrah could beat her) and possibly Burton.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#12	[-]
Posts: 6576 (12/15/08 10:25 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sandra would have beaten Jon probably. Lill made the right moves, but only because she was held by the hand while doing it. Name one decision that she made on her own, excepting Jons boot.
GretchenIsMyGod		#13	[-]
Posts: 3168 (12/15/08 10:30 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	menelaus wrote: Lill's social game was miserable. She wasn't even voted back into the game, she was voted OUT of the loser lounge... and she always had some sort of a frown on. BY NICOLE. Not Ryan or Trish.
GretchenIsMyGod		#14	[-]
Posts: 3169 (12/15/08 10:31 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	finishthemoff wrote: Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: Her social game had bearing because she was the third person booted. For all of this talk about Savage being an asshole, he really was just being pragmatic. Look, Darrah had no social game period and she was accepted into the alliance. Lill is too much of a wildcard to be a dependable allie. Ryno LIKED Darrah. Ryno had a HARD-ON for Darrah. That is the only reason why she outlasted Nicole. Lill is an older lady of the tribe who was on the out of the alliance. it was only a matter of time before she and Ryan S. were oust. That is why outcast tribe was so sweet. {That 'X' thing.}
GretchenIsMyGod		#15	[-]
Posts: 3170 (12/15/08 10:42 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: Sandra would have beaten Jon probably. Lill made the right moves, but only because she was held by the hand while doing it. Name one decision that she made on her own, excepting Jons boot. Yeah yeah, GIMG, do it all in one post, yeah yeah... In Pearl Islands, people were so crazy looking for threats, that Lillian's "I'm just some dumb old broad, walk me through this slowly" routine worked AMAZINGLY to her advantage. Whether she was thinking, "I'm going to act like this so I'm not seen as a strategic threat" or not is beside the point in my book. What really impresses me about Lill, however, is not only that she consistently emphasized and reinforced that she was not a strategic threat, but that she combined this with recognizing when people were going to vote her out before the final 2, and making moves to secure herself. That is so important and so underdone in Survivor, esp. in 2003. So many people prior never thought that far down the line. How disappointing is it when someone knows they are going to be in 3rd, 4th or 5th and doesn't act immediately? Very - and it happens a LOT. And Lillian did this with Morgan, with Rupert, with Burton and with Darrah. I've got to say, I was really impressed.
YemaGrl1988		#16	[-]
Posts: 3125 (12/15/08 3:42 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SUSIE BOPPING AROUND GABON <3
PrettyGoodYear1988		#17	[-]
Posts: 1746 (12/15/08 5:25 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Reality TV World: Were you surprised at how obvious the other Kota members were about the fact that they considered you to be the sixth member of their six person alliance? Susie: I wasn't surprised about it, I knew that I was at the bottom. I tried to tell Bob that, I go "Bob, [Marcus Lehman] told me he doesn't want to take you to the finals," and Bob was content with that and like "Oh hey Susie, can it get any better? We're in the Top 6." I said "Bob, we should want better! I don't want to be the Kota 6. I don't wanna be the Bottom 6 or the Bottom 5 or Bottom 4. our goal is the farthest we can. But he seemed to be content with it and so, yeah, I told him "I know I'm at the bottom." I mean, even Randy was above Bob. It was interesting. So, basically, Susie > Bob. At least she had wanted to win from the beginning.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#18	[-]
Posts: 6601 (12/15/08 5:31 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	GretchenIsMyGod wrote: Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: Sandra would have beaten Jon probably. Lill made the right moves, but only because she was held by the hand while doing it. Name one decision that she made on her own, excepting Jons boot. Yeah yeah, GIMG, do it all in one post, yeah yeah... In Pearl Islands, people were so crazy looking for threats, that Lillian's "I'm just some dumb old broad, walk me through this slowly" routine worked AMAZINGLY to her advantage. Whether she was thinking, "I'm going to act like this so I'm not seen as a strategic threat" or not is beside the point in my book. What really impresses me about Lill, however, is not only that she consistently emphasized and reinforced that she was not a strategic threat, but that she combined this with recognizing when people were going to vote her out before the final 2, and making moves to secure herself. That is so important and so underdone in Survivor, esp. in 2003. So many people prior never thought that far down the line. How disappointing is it when someone knows they are going to be in 3rd, 4th or 5th and doesn't act immediately? Very - and it happens a LOT. And Lillian did this with Morgan, with Rupert, with Burton and with Darrah. I've got to say, I was really impressed. Then why didn't start working on her jury management skills?
CSCin3D		#19	[-]
Posts: 10799 (12/15/08 6:55 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The thing is, Lil was NEVER going to win unless she was against Burton, and that became impossible in the end game due to Burton's stupidity. I was impressed she got one vote.
James Barber		#20	[-]
Posts: 14791 (12/15/08 7:09 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Lil never had much of a chance of winning, being a returning player, but she lost any chance by focusing so heavily on her morals and character and then lying and cheating anyway. All her pouting and lip-jutting over Andrew not telling her she was leaving, and then she did the same thing to a number of players. She wanted to be seen as a moral crusader who also happened to backstab.

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