There was much more to Yuls game than the idol. Ozzy was also not a bad player.
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Probst on which 4 players belong in a 'Survivor' Hall of Fame.
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 Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 6653 (12/18/08 12:37 PM) Registered user |
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Thailandsurvivor |
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Posts: 3995 (12/18/08 12:52 PM) |
Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote:Yeah, I know. Yul saved Becky and won majority on Aitu...just to lose it because Candice and Jonathan were closer to others. Had there not been a mutiny, Yul would be in the same position where he should have left 1st at the merge if he didn't have the idol. In Micronesia, Ozzy was arrogant, and I hated him, but he was an alright player. I can admit that. In cook islands, though, no way. After Cecilla left, Sundra was able to work her way into the main alliance while Ozzy was relying on catching fish and winning immunity to survive. Had Aitu lost one more challenge without the mutiny, he is gone. Had they lost one after the mutiny, he is gone. Had he lost an immunity after Jonathan left, he is gone. He had no social skills, and he had no strategy. That doesn't make a good player to me. |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 6657 (12/18/08 1:37 PM) Registered user |
If there hadn't been a Mutiny, and supposing that Aitu continued with its winning streak(Why not? Candice and Jonathan are not physical detriments nor and Candices allies appeared to be safe there would be on Raro so there would be no reason for Candice to throw a challenge lets say), Yul obviously would be safe. If Aitu had lost though, Flika would probably still be the bootee because she was so unreliable.
I agree with you about CI Ozzy though. |
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Thailandsurvivor |
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Posts: 4002 (12/18/08 1:41 PM) |
Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote:Flika left before the mutiny. If Aitu didn't lose again with no mutiny, and it's 6-4 (or 6-3 with that double boot twist), then Candice and Jonathan jump over at the merge and control majority. If Ozzy wins immunity, Yul leaves at the final 9 without the idol. He got outplayed big time by Candice, yet he lucked out due to a variety of factors (Aitu winning the rest of the IC's, double boot at the final 11, him having the idol to bring over Jonathan.) |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 6658 (12/18/08 1:55 PM) Registered user |
Since the idol was part of the game that season, we should discuss it as is. I hate the HII just as much as you do, maybe more, but not including it in the discussion is silly. If there was no idol, don't you think Yul would put a failsafe in place such as keeping Cao Boi? If the idol was still in place and there was no mutiny, than Jonathan still sticks with Yul. |
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Thailandsurvivor |
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Posts: 4005 (12/18/08 2:16 PM) |
Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote:Yul may have kept Cao Boi (which would send Ozzy packing instead, so much for him being a great player), but yes, the idol was still in place thus the "Yul cannot be a great player argument". Had there not been an idol, Jonathan would have stuck with Candice and flipped like he did at the mutiny...it would only happen at the first vote of the merge not giving Yul enough time to bring him back over. To say that Yul is a great player when so many things had to go his way to just make it to the final 8 is absurd. That's not even counting the fact that no one was willing to vote for him because of the idol until the final 5 where Ozzy was an idiot and Sundra was close enough to Yul. Well, they were both idiots, but Sundra at least had a reason to be loyal to him. |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 6659 (12/18/08 2:47 PM) Registered user |
You have a point, but you can't discredit an entire season based on an unfair twist. If so than you could take that and extend it to the Outcast twist in Pearl Islands, which without with would make it very different.
Last Edited By: Dr Will Hatch two point oh
12/18/08 2:52 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Thailandsurvivor |
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Posts: 4007 (12/18/08 2:50 PM) |
I never considered Sandra a good player/winnner, either, but nah, it still would have been as screwed up as it was with Shawn and Fairplay on the outs of
Drake. Obviously the boot order would have been different, but I could still see people switching alliances every round with Sandra lucking her way out in the
end.
You can't say the same with Yul because if just one of the twists (mutiny, double boot at the final 11, HII, final 3) weren't a part of the game, he does not win. |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 6661 (12/18/08 3:01 PM) Registered user |
I would imagine seeing Shawn in the Lillian postion, with either Shawn or Osten/Rupert winning. If the former wins, Rupert goes. If either of the latter,
probably Jon goes. Followed by a general pagonging, with Osten quitting/blindsided at somepoint mid jury. Than perhaps Tijuana and Darrah or Ryan and Darrah
align with Shawn because he's a goat.
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even number |
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Posts: 109 (12/18/08 4:20 PM) |
WTFscissoring8 wrote:i love this poster. jeff probst gets more and more unbearable with every season. his behaviour at the gabon reunion pretty much ruined it for me. |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 6666 (12/18/08 4:31 PM) Registered user |
I thought Jeff was suprisingly friendly at the reunion and on the finale. Instead of trying to push the game forcefully, he prodded with provocations instead of demands. |
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Quiddity |
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Posts: 4310 (12/19/08 4:27 PM) Registered User |
X to what TS has said.
I have no doubt that even without the idol, Yul is a strong social and strategic player in Cook Islands. The winner though? I can't say that. Yul had the original broken idol, something which gave him automatic immunity the entire game. 18 people in that season had no opportunity to find that hidden immunity idol. Every single other winner in the show's history did not have that ridiculous advantage. If just one of all the twists that go in his favor don't happen, whether its getting picked by Billy to go to EI at that point in time, the idol, the bottle twist, the fact that Raro was so insanely stupid to think that the one possible person who could have the idol didn't have it, or the fact that the producers fucked up and didn't make the idol expire at F5 instead of F4 (in which he would have been not immune and likely voted out since Ozzy had immunity), he doesn't win. Its as simple as this: 18 of 20 people in his season and every single other winner did not even have an opportunity to obtain that idol which was the overwhelming factor in him winning the game. |
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The Jeweled Dagger.rasalvatoreforums |
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Posts: 8 (12/19/08 4:53 PM) |
Sorrry I picked 5.
Hatch Rupert Tom W. Yul Cirie Hatch is definite, he revolutionized the game. Rupert has to be, he is the face of Survivor who is the most popular Tom W. is like the great american hero, he was the only Leader to actually not get blinsided, and he won, and he lead his tribe all the way. Yul showed how to play the Idol, and win while not stepping on toes, he started the game as its new "Hidden immunitty idol" phase the right way. Cirie revolutiozed that not only can women be players like JFP, Rob C., or Kenny, but there is a good UTR type play, that she did. |
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Quiddity |
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Posts: 4313 (12/19/08 5:00 PM) Registered User |
Yul showed how to play the Idol, and win while not stepping on toes, he started the game as its new "Hidden immunitty idol" phase the right way. I would say Terry and Yul played the idol very similarly. Both essentially let everyone know they had it, and no one voted for them because of that. The difference is that the producers screwed up, so while Terry was vulnerable at his last TC, Yul wasn't, and thats why Yul got to face the jury and Terry didn't. |
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WylDawg |
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Posts: 17008 (12/19/08 5:58 PM) Registered user |
I really don't remember this, but doesn't the idol expire at the last tribal council before the final 2/3 is set? I mean, it would be ridiculous if the
idol gave you a free pass to a seat in front of the the jury.
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solesurvivor01 |
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Posts: 4342 (12/19/08 6:03 PM) Registered user |
WylDawg wrote:CI was the exception (and apparently it expired at the F6 this season) because the producers double-fucked up with the overpowered idol and the F3 giving Yul a free ride to the finals. |
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finishthemoff |
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Posts: 13962 (12/20/08 12:03 AM) Registered user |
which further my beliefs that Yul is the MOST overrated winner of all time.
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kenc333 |
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Posts: 5985 (12/21/08 3:03 PM) |
The fact is, Yul was vulnerable at a total of zero tribal councils. And unless he gave the idol away, there was no chance of him ever leaving. But he was also
a great strategist and socially, he was respected enough to gain jury votes. It's one thing to make it to the end, and another to get enough votes to
win... Kelly/Colby weren't vulnerable at many post-merge TC's, yet they still didn't win.
Yul...a little overrated, but still one of my favourite winners. |
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ojodelaplata |
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Posts: 58 (12/23/08 8:37 AM) |
how about SUGAR???
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AussieOriginal |
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Posts: 1799 (01/03/09 6:31 AM) Registered user |
kenc333 wrote:Except that the ONLY reason he got enough votes to win, was that Adam promised Yul that he would give him his vote (if he made it to the end) if they voted Jonathan out before Adam. Adam said at the Reunion that if not for that, he would have given his vote to Ozzy, thereby making Ozzy the winner. And yeah, I know people might say that was strategic of Yul and that's right. But it's still unfair in that it was not just Yul who voted out Jonathan before Adam - it was all the remaining tribe, including Ozzy. If Adam had voted the way he wanted to, Ozzy would be a million dollars richer. Well, $900,000 anyway... |
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I hate Jeff:
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