Probst on the Least Deserving Winner Ever

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7Sages		#81	[-]
Posts: 217 (12/03/08 10:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	WylDawg wrote: I've been posting here for quite some time and I realized over and over again that a castaway's popularity greatly influences what people think of them as winners. I remember ShiiAnn having a huge fan base here and I'm positive if she somehow won All-Stars by doing absolutly nothing, people would call her one of the best winners of all time. They'd make up some bullshit theory that she played brilliantly by laying low and letting the bigger fish eat each other up. Actually...that's true . Shii Ann said in interviews without prompting that she took the strategy of taking a step back because there were so many leaders around in All Stars
finishthemoff		#82	[-]
Posts: 13301 (12/03/08 10:06 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	WylDawg wrote: There's no clear forerunners for who deserved Exile Island so I'm fine with Aras taking it. Sandra's win was nothing short of a fluke. Her strategic and physical incompetance made her the biggest non-threat and people focused on bigger priorities to the point where when it was all said and done, she was the last one standing because people kept putting off her boot. But because she had a fiery personality, people here are duped into thinking that made her a strategic mastermind. Weird. That is PRECISELY what I am thinking the entire time. She is the MOST overrated winner. A certain poster acts like she is a great winner for some reason because of same national origin.
LKMOSCAR		#83	[-]
Posts: 5471 (12/03/08 10:06 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	8. Parvati - Probably the best female player ever
PrettyGoodYear1988		#84	[-]
Posts: 1290 (12/03/08 10:06 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The whole "deserving/undeserving" debate is almost more ridiculous than the "good season/bad season" debate. For one, it's totally subjective to what an individual thinks is the best way to play a game that they themselves have never played. It's very "armchair strategy." Not to mention we're only privy to 13-14 hours of 39 days of gameplay, so we can hardly see everything a winner has done to be "deserving." Secondly, there is no one surefire way to win Survivor. Every player will approach the game differently and will have a mix of strategies to get them to the end. Only one person's will succeed, and thus they'll be the most deserving. The only winner who would be "undeserving" in my mind would be one who was apathetic to winning (like people who were just there for the "experience" like Gabriel or overtly fame-whoring and playing to the cameras like Lisi). But that kind of person would never win, so I'd say all the winners have been deserving.
finishthemoff		#85	[-]
Posts: 13302 (12/03/08 10:08 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	WylDawg wrote: I've been posting here for quite some time and I realized over and over again that a castaway's popularity greatly influences what people think of them as winners. I remember ShiiAnn having a huge fan base here and I'm positive if she somehow won All-Stars by doing absolutly nothing, people would call her one of the best winners of all time. They'd make up some bullshit theory that she played brilliantly by laying low and letting the bigger fish eat each other up. She lost almost her entire fan bases during post-ASS. They realized that she is overrated. Of course, certain posters will disagreed with "<3" and "ow.nage".
Quiddity		#86	[-]
Posts: 4150 (12/03/08 10:22 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Least deserving? Amber. No questions asked. Runners up are Jenna and Ethan, in that order. Those of you who are saying "things fell into place for Danni" or "she got lucky", please, please, please, do your homework and watch the season again before saying such a statement. Remind me what part of Danni being in the minority at the merge despite winning just as many immunities as Stephenie & company due to that tribal switch at uneven numbers "fell into place" for her.
finishthemoff		#87	[-]
Posts: 13310 (12/03/08 10:23 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	You might want to like MikeSensei explains more about it. It is alot more complicated than you think it is.
RobVanStratus		#88	[-]
Posts: 7300 (12/03/08 11:39 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Undeserving - Ethan/Amber/Chris/Danni/Parvati Ethan - Nice guy and was smart, but didn't really do shit but hide behind Lex. Amber - Duh. Like others have said, she couldn't have won with the same strategy in any other season. Coattail rider onto a terrible social player where people were accepting 5th/4th/3rd place. Chris - Stumbled his way to a victory. Shouldn't have even been near the end, and credited with far too many moves. F7 switch? ALL Twila/Scout, moreso Twila. Twila had to handfeed it to Chris that he needed to talk to Eliza to get her to vote off Leann. Only won due to a pathetic jury that acted like trash. (No offense Eliza, I know you'll probably read this. I don't blame you for the terrible outcome, you had two people that dogged you to choose from.) Danni - Anyone that credits "god" as the only reason they won does NOT deserve to win. Vee at least acknowledged her gameplay, she didn't say "god" did the work for her. Again, piss poor jury performance and only because the jury was so anti-Stephenie and blind to her good gameplay, that they voted for Danni because they didn't want Stephenie to win, not because Danni played a nice game. Judd said it best, Danni skated through the game. Parvati - She lucked out due to quitters and evacuations. Had Jon not quit, likely the first vote goes for her, with Ami/Eliza/Cirie/Yau/Jonathan/Jon voting for her at least. Jonathan evacuated, getting rid of someone against her because of a fucking stick. And later, James gets evacuated because of his finger, changing the end game to a F2 isntead of a F3. Had it stayed a F3 like it was supposed to, Cirie wins hands down. She should have never even been cast in he first place, ala Amber.
SPunKeeMonKee		#89	[-]
Posts: 11414 (12/03/08 11:41 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Luckily she ended up against someone who was a total ditz and pretty much did the same thing she did. You've gotta be kidding.. you're putting Neleh, Miss "I started playing the game on day 24", on the same level as Vee? I know Vee's moves were subtle at times but she was never complacent and was always in game-mode. PrettyGoodYear1988, I agree completely.. there are some winners I don't particularly care for but I can admit that they did deserve their victories to some extent.. many assessments of how "deserving" a winner is are entirely subjective.
4 Horsemen		#90	[-]
Posts: 160 (12/03/08 11:52 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Quiddity wrote: Least deserving? Amber. No questions asked. Runners up are Jenna and Ethan, in that order. Those of you who are saying "things fell into place for Danni" or "she got lucky", please, please, please, do your homework and watch the season again before saying such a statement. Remind me what part of Danni being in the minority at the merge despite winning just as many immunities as Stephenie & company due to that tribal switch at uneven numbers "fell into place" for her. Well it's not like she needed majority since Rafe was busy being stupid and dragging her to the final 3 and then she got to the end due to a lucky immunity challenge
zoramikau32		#91	[-]
Posts: 43 (12/04/08 12:02 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	You can't hold others' stupidity against someone. Danni certainly had things fall her way, but she definitely worked herself into a prime position. Ousting Blake premerge gained trust in Gary that carried to merge -- and Gary was a HUGE influence in getting Rafe to trust Danni. Not only that, but Danni most certainly had a prime role in getting Steph/Rafe to backstab Judd. Danni is the only winner to get those in power to eat themselves. That has to count for something.
roxbury123		#92	[-]
Posts: 383 (12/04/08 12:13 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Anyone who says Amber is delusional. It is such a excellent strategy to have someone take all the shots for you. When people say how it would never be able to be done in another season, shows how well she played it. I think Katie in Palau was similar to Amber in that Ian and Tom were taking all the credit for the moves that were being made, but in the end the jury wasnt bitter against them. I think if you look back alot of people made the finals the same way Amber did. I feel a lot of people are to pissed with the "she didn't deserve to be an All Star" to give her the credit she deserves. She was able to play with Rob from day one, make moves with him, and take none of the downfall for it. Plus her and Rob were in control, its not like they dumb lucked themselves to the finals, they had control. I feel undeserving people are the ones who really dumb luck themselves into the finals. People who dumb lucked their way into the winners spot have been Ethan, Sandra, Vecepia, Danni, Chris. Now had Amber won in Season 2, where she was playing pretty much the same game as she did in All Stars, i would say she didnt deserve it. She wasnt part of the decision making that season, and the only way she would have made the finals would have been on dumb luck. But in All Stars she was a main part of the core alliance and her and Rob together played the game very well. They dominated that season...give them just a little credit.
4 Horsemen		#93	[-]
Posts: 161 (12/04/08 12:15 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	zoramikau32 wrote: You can't hold others' stupidity against someone. Danni certainly had things fall her way, but she definitely worked herself into a prime position. Ousting Blake premerge gained trust in Gary that carried to merge -- and Gary was a HUGE influence in getting Rafe to trust Danni. Not only that, but Danni most certainly had a prime role in getting Steph/Rafe to backstab Judd. Danni is the only winner to get those in power to eat themselves. That has to count for something. It's not holding people's stupidity against her. It's just that she didn't do anything. Getting rid of Blake could've backfired on her big time. Judd abandoned his old tribe and Cindy even stuck with her new tribe even thought she knew she was at the bottom of it
Thailandsurvivor		#94	[-]
Posts: 3488 (12/04/08 12:16 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	4 Horsemen wrote: zoramikau32 wrote: You can't hold others' stupidity against someone. Danni certainly had things fall her way, but she definitely worked herself into a prime position. Ousting Blake premerge gained trust in Gary that carried to merge -- and Gary was a HUGE influence in getting Rafe to trust Danni. Not only that, but Danni most certainly had a prime role in getting Steph/Rafe to backstab Judd. Danni is the only winner to get those in power to eat themselves. That has to count for something. It's not holding people's stupidity against her. It's just that she didn't do anything. Getting rid of Blake could've backfired on her big time. Judd abandoned his old tribe and Cindy even stuck with her new tribe even thought she knew she was at the bottom of it Seeing how Cindy beat 2 members of her tribe...how was she at the bottom?
4 Horsemen		#95	[-]
Posts: 162 (12/04/08 12:18 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Thailandsurvivor wrote: 4 Horsemen wrote: zoramikau32 wrote: You can't hold others' stupidity against someone. Danni certainly had things fall her way, but she definitely worked herself into a prime position. Ousting Blake premerge gained trust in Gary that carried to merge -- and Gary was a HUGE influence in getting Rafe to trust Danni. Not only that, but Danni most certainly had a prime role in getting Steph/Rafe to backstab Judd. Danni is the only winner to get those in power to eat themselves. That has to count for something. It's not holding people's stupidity against her. It's just that she didn't do anything. Getting rid of Blake could've backfired on her big time. Judd abandoned his old tribe and Cindy even stuck with her new tribe even thought she knew she was at the bottom of it Seeing how Cindy beat 2 members of her tribe...how was she at the bottom? Rafe got on his morality kick like he did with Danni and turned on guys because he gets along with girls better. Cindy tried to get him voted out and Danni did get him voted out
Thailandsurvivor		#96	[-]
Posts: 3489 (12/04/08 12:19 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	4 Horsemen wrote: Thailandsurvivor wrote: 4 Horsemen wrote: zoramikau32 wrote: You can't hold others' stupidity against someone. Danni certainly had things fall her way, but she definitely worked herself into a prime position. Ousting Blake premerge gained trust in Gary that carried to merge -- and Gary was a HUGE influence in getting Rafe to trust Danni. Not only that, but Danni most certainly had a prime role in getting Steph/Rafe to backstab Judd. Danni is the only winner to get those in power to eat themselves. That has to count for something. It's not holding people's stupidity against her. It's just that she didn't do anything. Getting rid of Blake could've backfired on her big time. Judd abandoned his old tribe and Cindy even stuck with her new tribe even thought she knew she was at the bottom of it Seeing how Cindy beat 2 members of her tribe...how was she at the bottom? Rafe got on his morality kick like he did with Danni and turned on guys because he gets along with girls better. Cindy tried to get him voted out and Danni did get him voted out So since Rafe was the leader of Nakum...what you're saying is that she wasn't at the bottom?
doc		#97	[-]
Posts: 271 (12/04/08 12:22 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Least Deserving- Ethan benefiting from others making moves, horrible at challenges. Vee didn't really do much, purple rock. Tom by dominating Ulong, he didn't need to make any moves early By the time the merge comes along, everyone is in love with him, and no one makes a serious move against him, then Ian just quits. All this not really his fault, but it juat makes is win too easy. I think everyone underestimates Amber, probably cause she was pathetic is Australia.. As Romber, they played a great game, completely controlling Chapera, changing what to do with Rupert/Jenna, the perfect 3/4, Rupert is too honest, no need to worry about him, and Jenna is too chicken to switch,but you know she'll sell out Rupert to avoid a tie.She still thinking purple rock for a tie at F4. And she's very beatable at F3. She has the perfect goat in Rob. If she makes F2 some other way she loses, because people will she, It's just poor Amber. This way, people feel she makes moves and ia not just a coaster, but they blame Rob. Pretty smart strat.
WylDawg		#98	[-]
Posts: 16803 (12/04/08 8:43 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Tom by dominating Ulong, he didn't need to make any moves early By the time the merge comes along, everyone is in love with him, and no one makes a serious move against him, then Ian just quits. All this not really his fault, but it juat makes is win too easy. Isn't a perfect example of top notch gameplay right there? Getting people to like and trust you so much that they're willing to take bullets for you and never dare turn against you. IMO, that's what makes the best winners. Those who create a cult that follows, never questions and never dares commit a coup against you. That's why I consider Tina, Brian, Maggie (BB6), Tom and Yul. as some of the greatest winners ever, because they all pulled off that strategy perfectly despite the fact that it's extremely risky.
4 Horsemen		#99	[-]
Posts: 163 (12/04/08 9:26 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	4 Horsemen wrote: Thailandsurvivor wrote: 4 Horsemen wrote: zoramikau32 wrote: You can't hold others' stupidity against someone. Danni certainly had things fall her way, but she definitely worked herself into a prime position. Ousting Blake premerge gained trust in Gary that carried to merge -- and Gary was a HUGE influence in getting Rafe to trust Danni. Not only that, but Danni most certainly had a prime role in getting Steph/Rafe to backstab Judd. Danni is the only winner to get those in power to eat themselves. That has to count for something. It's not holding people's stupidity against her. It's just that she didn't do anything. Getting rid of Blake could've backfired on her big time. Judd abandoned his old tribe and Cindy even stuck with her new tribe even thought she knew she was at the bottom of it Seeing how Cindy beat 2 members of her tribe...how was she at the bottom? Rafe got on his morality kick like he did with Danni and turned on guys because he gets along with girls better. Cindy tried to get him voted out and Danni did get him voted out The point is that she wasn't at the top but she played like a follower and got eliminated for it. She had a chance to try re-joining Danni and she chose to stuck with people like Stephenie and Rafe. That's why Danni didn't have numbers
Kitty Pryde1		#100	[-]
Posts: 6899 (12/04/08 9:31 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	roxbury123 wrote: Anyone who says Amber is delusional. It is such a excellent strategy to have someone take all the shots for you. When people say how it would never be able to be done in another season, shows how well she played it. I think Katie in Palau was similar to Amber in that Ian and Tom were taking all the credit for the moves that were being made, but in the end the jury wasnt bitter against them. I think if you look back alot of people made the finals the same way Amber did. I feel a lot of people are to pissed with the "she didn't deserve to be an All Star" to give her the credit she deserves. She was able to play with Rob from day one, make moves with him, and take none of the downfall for it. Plus her and Rob were in control, its not like they dumb lucked themselves to the finals, they had control. I feel undeserving people are the ones who really dumb luck themselves into the finals. People who dumb lucked their way into the winners spot have been Ethan, Sandra, Vecepia, Danni, Chris. Now had Amber won in Season 2, where she was playing pretty much the same game as she did in All Stars, i would say she didnt deserve it. She wasnt part of the decision making that season, and the only way she would have made the finals would have been on dumb luck. But in All Stars she was a main part of the core alliance and her and Rob together played the game very well. They dominated that season...give them just a little credit. I give Rob plenty of credit. After all, due to the fact that he knew a lot of people outside the show, no one was really willing to turn on him the way Tina turned on Jerri. The fact is, Amber played the same game in both seasons and the only reason it worked was because it was All-Stars and people felt betrayed by an out-of-game friend. Note how every other woman who played a complete follower, never making any real moves of her own (at least none that anyone else saw), got owned. Kim J., Katie, Danielle, Becky, Cassandra, Amanda, Courtney Y., Amanda again.

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