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 Kirblar |
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Posts: 6537 (09/28/08 5:18 PM) Registered user |
You're all falling for the misdirection.
Big post upcoming - I think they gave the winner away - There's one person who's edited very differently than everyone else. |
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 Jedijake |
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Posts: 5271 (09/28/08 6:00 PM) MESS member |
The weird thing about Charlie is that he is rubbing in the gay thing a bit too thick, almost as if to show us that he's more passionate than he is
analytical.
Todd told us he was gay to verify it and then we moved on from it and didn't care one bit. He was analytical all the way through and nearly every thought from him was about the game logic. Nobody cared whether Todd was gay-he was a brilliant player and that's all we focused on. Charlie is no Todd and I think we are being made to think that. I thought it was odd how much they (Marcus, Corinne, and Charlie) kept bringing up Jacque's name. They must have talked about her and how great she was 10 times in the same conversation, or so it seemed. It was almost overemphasized how tight she was with them despite the fact that we never heard it coming from her own lips. Instead, when the 4 of them were together, Jacque reiterated what Corinne said about Bob-that he could be solid. It almost makes you wonder if Corinne and Jacque have a 3-way alliance with Bob and want to betray Marcus and Charlie much later on. I'm almost thinking that Corinne/Jacque are a pair while Marcus/Charlie are a pair. Bob will be the swing vote. How friggin' COOL would it be if Bob ended up winning this?! Doubtful, but cool thought! |
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Orangeena |
Gay man in love with straight man. Differnt rules apply | ||
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Posts: 1308 (09/28/08 8:09 PM) Registered User |
Well, the reason I'm so excited about the Opening 2 hour episode is that we are being presented with a prime time television show examining in what looks (from the first two episodes) that is going to be a gay guy in love with a straight guy showmance. This does NOT have to ever be a sexualized relationship. It's Charlie's fantasy and the two women who were talked about all the time aren't threats to Charlie's fantasy relationship with Marcus. Because they are WOMEN. It's not like Marcus is going to be paying attention to another MAN. Then Charlie's fantasy is destroyed. I know many gay men who have heavy, sometimes life-long crushes on straight men. And because it can fall under the category of "He's my best friend" a totally het guy can tolerate or even encourage the gay crush. And a crush is what it is and we would NOT have been shown this in such detail if it wasn't going to be crucial to the ENTIRE season. Charlie was shown speaking well of the two women and how they both needed them...How Marcus plays Jacquie and Corinne off against each other and Charlie is going to be a large part of this Survivor season. Marcus just has to keep the fantasy going on Charlie's part, which he seems perfectly capable of doing. Stepping over the sexual line with Charlie is something I don't see happening. But, as I said, I don't think that's important to Charlie and no, he's not like Todd Herzog of China, who only wanted one thing. To win. And win he did, and he picked a very solid partner in Amanda. Charlie is in love with Marcus, in a platonic/romantic way, as we were shown. And if Marcus can keep that going...AND play the two women off against each other... Corrine said she was a bitch, but she certainly was shown to be very strategic and savvy right out of the box. But they showed her in a very careful, caring way, I thought. She's not Jerry Manthey, whom we all just hated on sight. WHY? Because she was edited that way. Corrine, in both episodes wasn't. And that Jacquie was talked about so much and NOT SHOWN means either one of two things 1) The Switch comes up quickly and she gets switched out of the Kota 4 in the next two episodes and gets eliminated that way. OR 2) What she thinks and feels is pivotal to the outcome of the show and she's being kept hidden for that reason. Only we hardcore fans who obsess over every detail of the editing would notice this. Also the Corrine v.Jacquie relationship...Would either of them be STUPID enough to fall in love with Marcus and thus jeopardize the million $. Corrine wouldn't. And she was shown that she wouldn't. Marcus could win every physical and mental challenge that comes up post-merge. The merge and the switch and the family visit and the car challenge are all coming up in different places than before, Jeff said. Could the switch be at the end of the next episode even? And the women may not see Charlie as a threat..."Oh he's just this cute little gay guy in love with Marcus. But Marcus likes women, so he'll like ME best." I see them thinking like this until it's too late... |
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Jedijake |
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Posts: 5273 (09/28/08 8:17 PM) MESS member |
Or that Marcus and Jacque begin a little relationship, throwing the whole shebang out of order.
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birdlady |
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Posts: 1464 (09/28/08 9:04 PM) Registered user |
Marcus just has to keep the fantasy going on Charlie's part, which he seems perfectly capable of doing.I'm wondering how this plays out, good and evil-wise. Right now, we're thinking Marcus is cool, he's not squikked out, he likes Charlie, but not that way. Cool. But as soon as he starts feeding the fantasy, that's cold and amoral and manipulative. Especially if he has more than one of them going. (See, this part reminds me of Outback, too. Colby being all correct, even while Jerri was over-the-top about him. Granted, we like Charlie better than we liked her, but the reason we still like Colby is because he didn't use her.) |
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dagny1331 |
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Posts: 2300 (09/28/08 10:13 PM) Registered User |
I was just catching up at Survivor Fever, and read that Probst, pre-show, said Marcus was one of the most arrogant they've ever had on the show. We
haven't seen extreme arrogance yet. Wonder if it will be coming, or if it will always be hidden for some reason.
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I LUV TIJUANA |
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Posts: 11568 (09/28/08 11:55 PM) Registered user |
Kirblar wrote:I want to know who you're referring to! |
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Cassidy666 |
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Posts: 8752 (09/29/08 3:36 AM) Registered User |
I hope it's not about Marcus. Talk about anticlimactic.
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Poopert |
Ken | ||
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Posts: 12 (09/29/08 9:37 AM) Registered User |
Maybe I'm making more of this than there is... but I thought that a lot of attention/detail was put into creating the character of Ken. The editors
specifically chose to include clips of him tripping, dropping the pen during tribal council, etc. He looks very weak/dorky right now... but I kind of feel
like they wouldn't bother with all this stuff if he wasn't going to play a bigger role in the show.
I'd he makes it at least to the jury. Just a hunch. Anyone else make anything of all this? |
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Poopert |
Bob | ||
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Posts: 13 (09/29/08 9:42 AM) Registered User |
p.s. i think tha Bob looks real strong. definitely not a winner... but maybe an old fogie 4.. a la Butch (Amazon)...
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Poopert |
Randy | ||
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Posts: 14 (09/29/08 9:46 AM) Registered User |
sorry... forgive me, another thought.
i feel like Randy is being painted like another Penner. we haven't seen it yet, but i'd wager he ticks the others off in a similar way. hopefully he's smarter... we shall see. |
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ts2 |
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Posts: 1398 (09/29/08 10:00 AM) MESS member |
Poopert wrote: I actually thought they showed all that to indicate why he might get booted prior to Susie... |
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Poopert |
hmm | ||
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Posts: 15 (09/29/08 10:06 AM) Registered User |
well, that definitely could be the case, tS2...
he does also have attributes that i find essential to any long-lasting survivor: *he's not a threat *he's not unlikeable *he's not necessarily a liability... it doesn't really hurt to keep him around. then again, i could be completely wrong and he'll go before suzie. |
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crocophile |
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Posts: 10035 (09/29/08 5:19 PM) MESS Moderator |
He also doesn't have an alliance.
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JamesM |
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Posts: 151 (09/29/08 5:35 PM) |
So based on Edgic, is Dan out of the run for late-game/winner?
I mean the only winner to ever not get a confessional on the Premiere episode was Tina S2, but still, it's possible for it to happen again...right? Could it be that the editors are pulling one over us? |
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birdlady |
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Posts: 1471 (09/29/08 6:44 PM) Registered user |
You could check in the edgic thread to see what they're thinking, but I'd say Dan's out of it.
His search for the idol was edited as dumb. (Eg, they showed the clue, they showed the crater, then they showed Dan randomly doing the opposite. Might have even been dumb music in the background.) If he was going to emerge later, I think they would have shown the search more as diligent, if fruitless. |
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Trixiego |
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Posts: 15426 (09/29/08 8:06 PM) Kiss me, I'm Adminish |
JamesM wrote: Based on MESSY thinking, Dan is probably not in it for the long haul. Forget S2, the editing has changed a lot since then; whatever formula approach there was back then has been tweaked. |
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dagny1331 |
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Posts: 2301 (09/29/08 8:54 PM) Registered User |
True, that. But also based on gut alone, Dan isn't in it for the long haul unless something shifts the teams. And even then, I don't see it.
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kdeec |
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Posts: 321 (09/29/08 9:34 PM) |
Even without an alliance, I don't see Dan going all that soon. They need help in the challenges, and even if he's not the brightest bulb, he's
harmless. Ken is a fellow outsider who would be perceived as physically weaker. The only way I see Dan going soon is if he gets "Aaroned" by being
outnumbered after a tribal swap. The other tribe probably sees him as more valuable than his own tribe sees him, and would want to pick him off.
ETA: I kinda see this happening, because I agree he's not going to be in it long term. |
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Kirblar |
The big post. | ||
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Posts: 6541 (09/29/08 11:08 PM) Registered user |
Prefacing this- This is pretty much pure spec- going by editing, Probst's comments, and a tiny, tiny hint from a MySpace page.
I believe there's one person edited in a way that doesn't make sense given the episode. And it's not Marcus/Charlie. They're obviously important to the story. But they feel like misdirection, the "Hey, look, it's Aras/Yul/Earl/Todd II." That person is Randy. I believe he wins. And here comes the rambling analysis. The pre-credits segment contains nothing but platitudes. Nothing to see here. Yes, Marcus has a confessional. But it's fluff. No one's got a "I'm gonna win" confessional here except Crystal, who's "Early Merge Boot Walking". Credits- There are 3 people from Fang out of order in the intro. Gillian, Michelle, and Randy. Two of them were voted out. One was not. Post-credits introduction. This is where the interesting editing starts. We have 4 players who have confessionals attatched to their name and occupation. Ken- Hi, I'm Ken. I'm going to win because I'm a gamer. Crystal-Hi, I'm Crystal. I'm going to hide my Olympic Background. (I gave my run to victory speech prior to the credits.) Corrine- I'm gonna win cause I'm a bitch! Randy- I do wedding videos but I don't want to get married. I'm negative. One of these 4 things is not like the other. Everyone else lays out a gamplan. Randy, on the other hand, introduces himself. Also, note. Marcus's profession is never mentioned in confessional. Only in his graphic. Pickem-only real focus is on Charlie and it's immediately negative. Randy was "negative" in a Rudy way. This is negative in a gross way. Kota tribe-really nothing here. Marcus again, has a confessional but it's just fluff narration. And Bob is great, but doomed (barring the other contestants having a Survivor death wish.) Fang tribe- Randy given the first insight that Gillian's a big problem. (AKA Randy is Smart.) Then Ken/Michelle- where it's just something cute to provide a distraction for Michelle's boot and establish Ken's character. Kota tribe- Ace is overconfident. Charlie is obsessed with Marcus. Marcus is aware and wants to use it. Overnight at Fang- Randy's head wound- which of course needs to be shown to explain the focus. But the narrative focus is that Randy is worried it'll take him out of the game. Fang Morning- Randy's feeling better, Michelle's miserable, and Fang is tribe "Freaks and Geeks" Kota Morning- Ace is ridiculous. Paloma is not taking part in group activities. Post-IC Fang- Randy states "No one wants to be leader" GC-I have immunity-also, no leader. Randy- "Why are we voting off Michelle instead of Gillian?" TC-Michelle gone. Note, though- there was no discussion of Randy, with his gaping head wound, whatsoever. Ep2- I'm gonna summarize this caues I don't think the other method really gets the point across. We get 2 strategies. Marcus' Onion, with him/Charlie at the core. And Randy's "Let them self-destruct." With a shot of Randy laughing as they all work around camp. Theres' a firm pecking order established at Kota. Marcus/Charlier-Corrine-Jacquie-Bob. The traditional gameplan. Randy is also one of the guys who helps catch the fish at Kota. When Fang goes nutso over possibly booting Dan, who do we see as the one reigning them in? Randy. The boot is Gillian, confirming that once again, Randy was right and that she should have gone first. Also, he is never mentioned as a boot possibility the entire episode. Other stuff- There's a Good v Evil theme later on, mentioned by Probst. Randy's MySpace mood is "Evil" Randy, though, is being shown not as "evil", but as smart, resilient, mercenary, and useful around camp, That's an awful lot of characteristics to dump onto one person in one episode. Everyone else is fairly one-dimensional. Randy may be "evil", but he's not malicious, like Charlie. It could be that he doesn't win. Sure, it could be the predictable Marcus. But I don't think it will be. This appears to be a flip-flop season alliance-wise. Guys like Marcus don't do all that well in those type of seasons. Well-laid alliances and con-man onion alliances are awesome when there's no swap and a merge at 10. But this season likely has a swap at 15 or 14 and a merge at 12 or 11. Bad for a guy like Marcus. Good for a guy like Randy. If this were an F2 season, Randy would likely be our 3rd place finisher. But it's not. The F3 was only abandoned in Micronesia because of the injuries. (Look at the filming timeline, it doesn't make sense any other way.) It's going to be back this season, and our "Good" v "Evil" showdown may take extend all the way to the finals of the game. This is shaping up to be Randy's story- win or lose. But I strongly suspect he wins this thing, as a Kota supermajority implodes on itself post-merge. (Someone tell me if this is safe to post in Spec, I'm not too sure what the rules are there now for whats game as a spoiler) |
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