And as the passive viewer/story watcher, in my ideal story this is what I want to happen in my story. I find it very exicting and dramatic. Proof that reality stinks and it should all be scripted.
| Started By | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
colleenlover |
|||
|
I disagree that Sugar is an appendage to Ace's story. if that were the case, we wouldn't get insight into her feelings about continually being sent to
Exhile, being singled out while the others suffer. Ken's need to finally talk to the apendage, and her editing as a player with him in acknowledging that
she has the idol back. In terms of story, she is meant to be seen as in trouble because she is a pawn/appendage, but she is not an appendage to the story-
like Amber to Jerri. Her character has equal weight as Ace.
And as the passive viewer/story watcher, in my ideal story this is what I want to happen in my story. I find it very exicting and dramatic. Proof that reality stinks and it should all be scripted. |
|||
Oowatanite |
|||
BlakeB717 wrote: |
|||
9RedWing19 |
|||
BlakeB717 wrote:Well, I don't care much about who wins or loses, but you need to separate your personal feelings and concentrate on the editing intent. It's Survivor 101 that the contestants should care about winning and losing, so showing emotion over a loss is inherently positive, particularly if a tribe has been on a huge losing streak like Fang has. That's one reason that Randy taunting Fang makes Randy N this episode. Yes, Crystal had negative moments later in the episode, but she is neutral overall (and CP for that matter). All the OTTN voters need to go back and watch the episode again, because OTTN for Crystal this episode is just plain incorrect. |
|||
Oowatanite |
|||
BlakeB717 wrote:
|
|||
BlakeB717 |
|||
|
On a serious note (for once tonight lolol) I am rewatching in 15 minutes so I'll make sure to look closely for you, RedWing. However, you should know by
now that I am very critical of those who rate based on liking the person (usually because they're pretty thus apparently their INV1 makes them CPP5 because
their brilliant blonde hair and sparkling blue eyes develop them). My dislike for Crystal, though strong, was not present until she started getting an N edit.
I assure you I will not rate based on emotion, if I did, I would have given Crystal OTTN last week, which I did not. =)
|
|||
9RedWing19 |
|||
colleenlover wrote:I guess we see it differently - for me Ace is the evil mastermind who so far has successfully navigated through the train-wreck that is Fang to be in a good position, and Sugar is the sweet young ingenue (the moth to his flame so to speak). So I see Ace as a much "bigger" character from a storyline point of view. |
|||
9RedWing19 |
|||
BlakeB717 wrote:Just remember, I fought long, hard, and unsuccessfully for a CPN for Michelle in Ep 1 |
|||
BlakeB717 |
|||
|
The Ace-Sugar edit story is very intruiging. Since when did we have 2 very visible characters with completely opposite tones in an alliance? It should
definitely strike some questions to the editting. They wouldn't make her so P if she lost because of stupidity, would they?
|
|||
fat little fingers |
|||
cl: All I ask is to see her leave without getting humiliated for giving the idol to Ace. I'm just one of the boys who's a sucker for the spunky sweeties who have some brains. |
|||
Oowatanite |
|||
9RedWing19 wrote:RW, how does Kelly rate another OTTN ? Especially when Crystal doesn't get even an M ? This was probably Kelly's best edited episode, simply due to the fact that Probst AGREED with her for once. And Ace's "zinger" only reflects badly on him, not Kelly. Randy had nothing but his poor sportsmanship. If he's not OTTN, he's UTRN. Susie was UTR1. There will be no battle (I hope). |
|||
OnlyTheHunter |
|||
|
Here's something to ponder. First go here
How about the beginning of Pearl Islands here
Now, Allstars has this
I'm just asking - what is a happy medium? If you refuse to use INV, do you throw out any other changes invoked since then? Adding Tone to MOR? The Visibiity scale? NN meaning Boston Rob and N meaning Lex being "slightly" negative? Do you pick and choose certain things from long ago and discard other ones? Here's post 3 in PI from KQ
KQ Any way you can read that into Gabon and see someone who stands out? Still the heart of it. But the crux was always shown in every one of
those posts - always re-evaluate. I think that you rate the player based on the episode. Then step back and view the whole picture by adding up the pieces. KQ
also said:
So what is your favorite Edgic flavor? Old school? Cheeseburger? Somewhere in between? Edgic works, but in the posts above, PI was the only one in which Edgic used those definitions and succeeded. The good old days weren't always good, but the groundwork was spot on. Just thinking aloud. Michael
Last Edited By: OnlyTheHunter
10/23/08 9:05 PM.
Edited 1 times.
|
|||
BlakeB717 |
|||
|
flf that was almost as sincere as Susie's yawn.
I'm kidding, that was cute of you. I agree, it would suck majorly if Sugar went out like that. Then again, it would only amplify Ace's negativity, which they may want. However, I think you caught something at that first Kota TC between Corinne and Sugar. I think Corrine (the evil empire) will take her down. But Sugar won't go down easy! |
|||
colleenlover |
|||
9RedWing19 wrote: Correct, in terms of Ace as the mastermind, but both have equal weight in the story. Points to Sugar not being a story pawn is Ace's continual comments about having Sugar manipulated, the insight/comment from her being perceived as dumb. In most movies, stories we know what is going to happen -the opposite. Now in Survivor/reality tv it doesn't always turn out that way, and they are just using the best sound bytes -but it shouldn't be ignored. *Also, I forgot but in the recap we have another unflattering shot of Kelly saying, "see ya, Bayatch!" More peril for Sugar. Marcus is winning, but I'm enjoying the Sugar ride -I imagine it would be the Lex/Colleen combo if she agreed to do All-stars. |
|||
Oowatanite |
|||
BlakeB717 wrote:ASS. Though some edgicers threw some of Rob's negativity onto Amber a few epsiodes. |
|||
Oowatanite |
|||
fat little fingers wrote:I agree that Sugar is getting the "sweetheart edit" this season, but I haven't seen too much of her "brains" in play yet. |
|||
TheLurkerSpeaks |
|||
|
Blake's OTTN for Crystal may be the most predictable poster rating ever (and so obviously incorrect also). I think we can clearly conclude that Blake was
going to give Crystal an OTTN no matter what happened this episode unless he could justify an INVN. N? Perhaps for losing her temper at TC, but that was more
reporting of a dramatic confrontation than intended N editing. Other than that, the editors went out of their way to show Crystal in the best light possible
while still showing why she was in danger at TC. OTT? Clearly not when the whole storyline on Fang was her working to overcome the impression others were
painting of her as unstable. (And this character development was clearly intentional since the editors could have easily left the storyline as Crystal the
moody athlete lashes out - Blake will argue it was anyway - but it was clearly more developed than that with Crystal getting ample time to explain her emotions
in confessional, in conversation with several tribemates, and dramatically at TC. Blake may have predicted correctly that I'd rate her CPM, but I'd
say that's just because he knows that is the correct edit even if he won't admit it. (In reality, I think Crystal causes a lot of her own problems
with her moody attitude, but in editing, we were allowed to see things from her point of view this episode.)
Randy fans will be claiming we're supposed to take his side in his jibing of Crystal. Not this time! While Crystal does get in a jab at Randy's temperament (deserved under the editing and Randy himself would probably proudly claim the title of troll), she also gets sympathetic confessionals. What does Randy get? - "I like watching them lose." This is clearly negative under the circumstances it was presented - he's more clearly a bad winner than Crystal is a bad loser. And it isn't like he had other positive moments this episode to contradict. He started slowly in the immunity challenge and was called out on it, and when he ended up getting a big lead, it was all negative commentary on Kelly (especially) and Sugar. This was a major change from the last few episodes. The only other scene was him commenting on the tribe's displeasure with Dan's eating habits, which was at best strategically neutral. Is this brief strategic update (in which the only insight was that he was close enough to Dan to have to distance himself) enough for CP? Not in my opinion, but his legion of fans will no doubt claim otherwise. MORN Yes, tonight's exchange between Randy and Crystal at the reward challenge clearly suggests both make the merge, at which point Randy will probably triumph. (However, while we are meant to respect Randy's game, I do not believe we're meant to like him very much. I would guess he and Ace are the obstacles that Marcus ends up having to overcome to win the game.) Interestingly, Kelly was barely personalized at all this episode despite being the eventual boot. Other than looking bad in the challenges, which was especially emphasized in the immunity one, her role was to be the drama catalyst at TC, bringing out reactions from both Ace and Crystal. Yes, the tone of both of those reactions were N in their intensity, but this is clearly a case where contrast with an N does not bring P. Kelly was also N - the audience was not meant to sympathize with her at all, but in her boot episode, she plays but a supporting role. MORN. Ace gets CPN. We see him discuss the implications of taking the idol from Sugar as well as discuss his handling of Matty. He's clearly N for taking advantage of Sugar, for his overbearing takeover during the challenge, and for his responses at TC. Sugar on the other hand is clearly OTTP, especially when she cries for her tribe while in Exile. She discusses the idol, but it almost seems like we are purposely not being shown what she's really thinking. (Is the naivety an act to get people to underestimate her? If so, it seems to be working.) Matty just looked foolish for trusting Ace, especially in contrast to Ken, who gives him warning about doing so. But it isn't toned. MOR. Ken gets to comment on a number of things, but I didn't find him particularly CP. MOR. The Kota tribe, as usual, gets very little development. The turtle capture just served to emphasize how much better they are doing than Fang. The discussion about Dan sets him up as OTTN this episode and probably earns MOR's for main narrators Marcus and Corinne. Susie gets some airtime, but its all fluff. Bob is shown as the provider once more and better than expected in challenges. Charlie is forgettable. All three are UTR. |
|||
9RedWing19 |
|||
Oowatanite wrote:First I'm "old-school" Edgic and have never adopted the M (but had I adopted it, it would be appropriate for Crystal this episode). Kelly OTTN - well she had little storyline about herself this episode; we had more from her on how Crystal sucks and how Crystal's t.ears were a sign of her being unstable. Kelly was noted by JP as doing poorly in the first leg of the IC, and she was the consensus boot target at the beginning of the plotting sequences before TC. I found nothing remotely positive about her edit (yes she was right about her comment about lack of teamwork, but that reflects badly on all members of the tribe, including her, so I don't see it necessarily as a positive for her edit, but simply reinforcing the "bad Fang" storyline), and enough negatives to warrant an N. OTT because her storyline was simplified - we know next to nothing about her, and what we do know isn't very good (hence my comment that it is a contender for one of the 10 worst edits ever, worst in the sense of hatchet-job). Randy did have the confessional about Dan being annoying and that it might be in Randy's interests to put more distance between himself and Dan (followed by a scene where Randy appeared to be encouraging Dan to eat more of the RC treats). That pushed Randy to MOR for me, but it is not a rating that I feel that strongly about. Edited for that "t.ears" word again
Last Edited By: 9RedWing19
10/23/08 9:19 PM.
Edited 1 times.
|
|||
SerenaSS7 |
|||
|
Crystal was NOT N!! At all. There was nothing negative about her edit tonight. NOTHING. Blake is just a racist.
|
|||
YemaGrl1988 |
|||
SerenaSS7 wrote: She was N. |
|||
Oowatanite |
|||
|
TLS, how can you argue an M for Crystal and an N for Kelly ? That brief t.ears scene after the RC was more than offset by the nasty confessionals and the nasty attitude at TC and the bird flipped at Kelly during Crystal's nasty voting confessional. And Kelly gets an N because the viewers are not supposed to sympathize with her ? Isn't Kelly's N this episode a DIRECT carryforward from her earlier sucky edit this season ?
|
|||