S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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OnlyMatthew		#5141	[-]
Posts: 1412 (12/22/08 5:11 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	to others aware of edgic: Are you more satisfied when you pick the winner to a season, and the winner follows all the guidelines (such as Yul or Earl), more satisfied when split between options (Parv/Amanda), or more satisfied when edgic completely fails? I'm not sure if I'd rather have predictable winner with successful edgic or unpredictible winner with failing edgic. I do like to see you guys succeed (because it seems like the rest of sucks despises edgic), but I don't know, I kind of enjoyed an editing gutpunch this season
getting real		#5142	[-]
Posts: 1490 (12/22/08 5:32 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Phoenix said: you know... The more post season interviews etc that i've read the more i'm seeing that there were factors that we couldn't have legitimately predicted...like Sugar's randomness, and the fact that 99.9% of people who go on Survivor are playing to win... her prize was something all togethor different and kudos to her for keeping her eye on "her prize" what ever it was... and it was just seriously weird how random the F4 were! And thanks Getting Real... i went back and found the posts you were talking about... i DID say that. I DID ask those questions... too bad i didn't follow up with them. hmph. Oh well...at least i got the onions as a voting block right! Well done, Phoenix. Sometimes, picking up some of the editing clues is something of a reward, even if we don't get the winner. For example, pegging Sugar's edit. Even as she was apparently given the sweetheart edit early, I kept picking up the clues that it would eventually turn out to be a man-devouring femme fatale edit. As I kept pointing out, she had a had in voting out every single man other than the winner, Marcus and Dan - and the editors made sure to tie even those three with her in some way. I highlighted that no other female edit in the history of Survivor had been linked to all of the men like that and noted that she was edited to act relatively benignly towards other women. Even the ones she voted out (Kelly, Corinne, Crystal), even though those women were edited as much more aggressive towards her (Kelly: "Seeya beatch!", Corinne: insert your own quote here). I predicted very early that she would use her idol to redeem Matty. I thought that would make him the winner but I was wrong in that. She broke his heart also, because apparently, femmes fatale have unresolved father issues and need to elevate their father above anyone else. So she made her 'father' the winner, breaking every other man's heart in doing it. And the editors made sure we heard their anguish each time it happened: (Ace: "Thanks, Sugar"; Kenny:"I trusted you more than any other girl","I broke Kenny's heart"; Matty: "Is that all you got, Sugar? Really?") I'm noting these things as a way of showing that, no matter how apparently random the events are that shape a season and its stories, that 'randomness' shouldn't let us off the hook. We shouldn't abrogate our responsibilities for solving the whodunnit just because it different to the norm, We should just be more vigilant, that's all. Sugar's randomness, for example, was perfectly predictable, after all.
Warrior		#5143	[-]
Posts: 2776 (12/22/08 6:11 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	ncassaro wrote: Suggestion for a new edgic guideline: Don't feed the trolls! X
Oowatanite		#5144	[-]
Posts: 6644 (12/22/08 6:28 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Survivor Gabon Overall Ratings Bob OTTP Susie UTR Sugar OTTP Matty MORP Ken CPN Crystal MORN Corinne MORN Randy OTTN Charlie UTR Marcus CP Dan OTT Ace MORN Kelly UTRN GC OTTN Jacquie UTR Paloma UTRN Gillian OTTM Michelle OTTN
9RedWing19		#5145	[-]
Posts: 2355 (12/22/08 7:02 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think the key is that people with typical "Type A" edits eventually build up enough flaws that it becomes unlikely that any of them win. This is the most accurate way to figure it out, but it takes a while, which upsets the competitors (I figured it out first! Hooray ME!) Even if we can't figure out an early indicator of Type B edits, why shouldn't we prepare for them in the event that another Marcus happens (Edgic picks a Type A winner that gets unexpectedly axed)? I think that's a much more pressing question. Why should we ignore a new type of winner edit when we know for sure that it exists? That's like not buying car insurance because it's unlikely that you will be in an accident (except in this case it appears that the likelihood is 1 out of every 10 times you take a drive). The issue I have here is one of timing - if the goal is to pick the winner by the merge episode, how do we know whether we are faced with a Type A winner or a Type B winner? Looking specifically at S17, was Kenny's edit at the merge "worse" than say Parvati or Todd (hey, at least they didn't show Ken sleeping in the hut right before TC like they did Bob - they would "never" show a winner doing that, now would they)? Ken had "good" episodes around the merge, it was only in the last few episodes where he got lots of "I'm a strategic genius" confessionals, that more and more doubt crept in. And if not Ken, then Matty had a decent fit with Edgic principles - again, how would you know that it wasn't Matty and to go looking for some winner coming out of left field?
OnlyTheHunter		#5146	[-]
Posts: 1911 (12/22/08 7:12 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Phoenix said There is only one rating (OTT) that needs adjusting since it talks about Tone (overly positive overly neagative) in the rating... Tone is Tone, rating is rating. OTT should be properly defined WITHOUT refering to TONE in it's description. I've said this since at least EI when I first got to act as ToneDog. That never made sense to me, excepting the idea that some pre dating me felt that to be so one dimensional you had to veer one way or the other. (Note when Janu was booted she got a neutral OTT because at the time Mixed didn't exist and she wasn't clearly one or the other.) But to have it in the definition, I've always felt was in error. Once we get past the finale rankings (and overall ones, though I'm likely abstaining from it this time, what purpose does it serve?) I have every intention to go over the guidelines in specific sections and try to remove the deadweight and update things. I'm against wholesale changes, personally, but I think in the discussion about the guidelines directly, the points of contention will arise anyway. Edgic is supposed to pick the winner by the merge. Many do recall KQ noticing Sandra in episode 2. But reading the PI thread, KQ also discounted her for a long stretch, worried about how popular she seemed, only to come on in good time. It's nice to say the winner seems obvious early, but it isn't be all end all. But it also is supposed to happen before there's a 1 in 4 shot. Michael
panurge46		#5147	[-]
Posts: 1178 (12/22/08 7:48 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	RedWing wrote: "Looking specifically at S17, was Kenny's edit at the merge "worse" than say Parvati or Todd." Yes it was. Parvati had been shown improving her game from her original season, Todd had been shown as a good strategist. They fit the theme of their season. Kenny didn't. Look at Oo's season ratings: His only P tones all made F4. All the N tones were eliminated along the way. Good vs Evil. Kenny was N in a season were it meant death but you guys prefer to ignore it. Last Edited By: panurge46 12/22/08 7:51 PM. Edited 1 times.
getting real		#5148	[-]
Posts: 1491 (12/22/08 7:50 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Redwing said: Looking specifically at S17, was Kenny's edit at the merge "worse" than say Parvati or Todd (hey, at least they didn't show Ken sleeping in the hut right before TC like they did Bob - they would "never" show a winner doing that, now would they)? As Kitty pointed out, they would do exactly that, if the rest of the editing told us that that strategy was a bad thing. And that anyone who professed to have any was consistently portrayed as arrogant - and wrong.
BlakeB717		#5149	[-]
Posts: 1276 (12/22/08 8:34 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	And you correctly identified the winner, panurge? Corinne? Matty? =\
tropical rain		#5150	[-]
Posts: 376 (12/22/08 8:49 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	and OTH... i got you votes... sorry about the mixup... i meant to take out the winner / loser part and i forgot! haha, I noticed that. I was wondering if anyone would vote for Ken or Matty instead of Bob to be the top edgic pick for episode 14. XD
getting real		#5151	[-]
Posts: 1492 (12/22/08 9:06 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	More fun from post-game interviews. Charlie: Marcus fit with Charlie's "strategy to have a very strong relationship in the game and probably one that people wouldn't expect to see," and he Charlie told me that it was unexpected: "we were a secret alliance; no one knew" and other cast members "didn't realize we were friends and that we had an alliance" until after watching the show on TV. I guess biting each other after challenges was intended to deflect attention from Charlie's relationship with Bob!
RobVanStratus		#5152	[-]
Posts: 7513 (12/22/08 9:12 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: RobVanStratus could you please stop whining? You're accomplishing zip. No I will not stop voicing my opinion when I think someone is making a ridiculous winner choice. We all failed this season, end of discussion. I still stand by everything I said this season. Once again proving everything I've said before. Your personal opinion on the matter is invading Edgic and you can't accept others have opinions that are valid. At the F7, the only ridiculous winner choice was Susie. Everyone else could have won, they had enough visibility and all had reasonable edits for the winner. My only regret in my discussion in the last few episodes was not calling Bob as a winner. I suspected it could have been a Danni edit for Bob to win but I didn't say anything because I really thought Sugar had the game won. So if Edgic fails, you can't attack anyone else for picking someone other than Kenny, because you didn't pick a correct winner. And if you could correctly rate visibility, Kenny would have been knocked out like you knocked out Sugar/Corinne for INV. Kenny was INV in the Paloma boot and I stand by that to this day, and he should have been Edgically eliminated like you did to everyone else with an INV. I disagree with the INV, mostly because I believe Danni/Bob/Vee/Parvati all had an INV episode at least once, but were all incorrectly rated. Parvati is the most prominent one because of spoilers saying she won, so the swap episode where she only got mentioned having a fat lip she wasn't fairly given an INV, because that would screw up your guidelines. But if the INV is going to be one of your rules, you need to fairly assign them to people and not discount people because you like them.
BlakeB717		#5153	[-]
Posts: 1277 (12/22/08 9:16 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I love how I'm being psychoanalyzed. Thanks for telling me how I think, I wasn't quite sure! =\ And you're doing exactly what you're continually yelling at me for. Bashing me for supporting Kenny or Marcus because it was so "obvious" they weren't winners. Can you believe this guy!?
craig		#5154	[-]
Posts: 14628 (12/22/08 9:21 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	When it happened once (Danni), I can understand the search for an explanation that is not damaging to tradition. It could have been a single outlier due to returning players, the story of how Steph lost, etc. However, we now have a second example of it - Bob was given a similar UTRP type edit as well. Again, we see pushes to explain it away. This time, however, we have a pattern forming. When the situation prevents the typical Edgic winner edit from being feasible, the editors seem to use a second predictable pattern. I don't care what the situation is (Sugar not wanting to win, Bob being UTR in real life, Danni hiding her strategy) - the point is that when one method won't work, they seem to use a secondary pattern that we can predict to some extent. Good interesting point.
RobVanStratus		#5155	[-]
Posts: 7516 (12/22/08 9:53 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Blake, if you can't stand the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen. You stomped all over the Corinne/Sugar/Crystal supporters calling them names and insulting their intelligence for picking one of those ladies to win, all the meanwhile parading Marcus and then Kenny as your failed winners. It's funny that when the shoe is on the other foot, you cry and try to hide behind other Edgic assholes like OO and warrior to defend you. You can't stop me from posting here, I am free to voice my opinion in Edgic like everyone else. Edgic shouldn't be run like a dictatorship, everyone has an opinion and should be able to voice it.
9RedWing19		#5156	[-]
Posts: 2356 (12/22/08 9:59 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	As Kitty pointed out, they would do exactly that, if the rest of the editing told us that that strategy was a bad thing. And that anyone who professed to have any was consistently portrayed as arrogant - and wrong. Is it strategy itself that was a bad thing (which I don't believe for a second) or was it the strategies that certain contestants used that was portrayed as arrogant (eg Ace, Marcus, Ken seeing themselves as strategic masterminds) and hence bad? Bob did have a strategy (going UTR) after all.
BlakeB717		#5157	[-]
Posts: 1278 (12/22/08 10:12 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	sob You've taught me a very valuable lesson RobVanStratus! Thank you! Mercy, mercy!
craig		#5158	[-]
Posts: 14631 (12/22/08 10:29 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ha ha, RVS is playing the Sugar role with the arrogent Kenny supporters.
getting real		#5159	[-]
Posts: 1493 (12/22/08 10:33 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	9RedWing19 wrote: As Kitty pointed out, they would do exactly that, if the rest of the editing told us that that strategy was a bad thing. And that anyone who professed to have any was consistently portrayed as arrogant - and wrong. Is it strategy itself that was a bad thing (which I don't believe for a second) or was it the strategies that certain contestants used that was portrayed as arrogant (eg Ace, Marcus, Ken seeing themselves as strategic masterminds) and hence bad? Bob did have a strategy (going UTR) after all. Redwing, the strategy that was portrayed as bad was the 'outwitting and outplaying' kind. As he was shown to admit himself, Bob was only interested in the 'outlasting' part. And he did it by employing a 'doing what the others need' approach, even in the pivotal fake idol exhange with Sugar. We were beaten over the head with all of this, as early as the first episode. Interestingly, although the people you mention were good examples of scheming being equated with arrogance, the poster-person used to tell us what was happening with scheming strategists this season was probably Corinne. The editors used her as their mouth-piece to declare the folly of anyone trying to formulate Babel-like grandiose plans. It soon became clear with every occasion of her strategy shown to be spectacularly wrong, that this wasn't about Corinne's individual edit. There was a qualitative difference between the clueless predictions of James Miller in Palau and the spectacular predictive failures of a player otherwise presented as ruthless, clinical and part of a team supported by the editing. Corinne's plight was actually a good example of the value of evaluating individual edits through the prism of more generic stories being told. Last Edited By: getting real 12/22/08 10:38 PM. Edited 1 times.
YemaGrl1988		#5160	[-]
Posts: 3242 (12/22/08 10:38 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	RVS <333 One of the few saving graces of Edgic!

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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