S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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craig		#4301	[-]
Posts: 14503 (12/11/08 10:35 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The recap made it clear that kenny was to blame. Latter when hear Crystal saying "I wish we booted Matty" while Kenny is all "it was strategy for jury votes." Honestly, if Bob Dannis his way to a win, it would explain EVERYTHING. Granted, I don't think he'll win...but if he does, then his edit has never been that bad. No INVs, a couple unnecessary OTT ratings. And it would explain the Fang hatred and the Good vs. Evil storyline. It would be a repeat of edgic's failure in S11 in picking Brandon and then Gary (right tribe) but missing the real comeback kid.
PleasantMama		#4302	[-]
Posts: 2305 (12/11/08 10:40 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The biggest problem with Kenny winning logically is that I can't see current Survivor editors setting up a blatant "good vs. evil" storyline where someone painted as the "bad guy" wins. I'd be impressed with them but the general public would not be pleased at all, and in the end they've been trying to keep everyone happy with the winner since what, Pearl Islands?
xfactor99		#4303	[-]
Posts: 200 (12/11/08 10:43 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	There's precedent for it though, with Amazon, so while it hasn't been done lately it's not entirely out of the question.
OnlyTheHunter		#4304	[-]
Posts: 1898 (12/11/08 10:50 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Real quick hits - early to bed, early morning bell for work, dammit. Kitty, don't know about cbs.com but iTunes has all the episodes, for a nomial fee... Nothing changes the absolute superfluousness of Kenny in the boat, Kenny becoming a man, blah blah, all of that, to explain a finish below the jury. He gets the TC concern, it's about him being in trouble, when the reality was Crystal left. I was only afraid Kenny would come off looking like aces. Instead he holds a 7 and 2 offsuit. And I think he'll parlay that to a winning hand in the finale. I was wrong about the idol killing Matty, but I also thought that you could play it at F5. Not sure how I screwed that second part up. The theme stuff - they've spent more time discussing the underdogs vs. the power players than good vs. evil. First Fang as a tribe making bad decisions, then little Sugar chopping Ace, then Fang knocking Marcus and Kota, then just when Kenny and Crystal should have the power, boom, Kenny is an underdog again. To the end. I feel about Sugar the wat CL felt about Rupert - I know what they're trying to sell, I apply it here, in reality I cannot stand her. She's either a complete wacko or a bad actress. But that ain't the editing intent. Susie - that was quiet. Scout was louder in the penultimate ep. Well, maybe not. Bob said "if" he could keep winning - worked for Terry...oh crap. Interesting to look for comments about the opening (a rare time back from the theme that it's still on the night scene). Matty refused to believe Kenny. Kenny was actually telling the truth, per the edit, about Corrine's supposed play of the idol. Is that SPV to reflect poorly on Matty for not listening and reacting, mere reporting to explain Matty's actions, Kenny's lack of insight? What? And I feel Susie has to be F3 - leaving two major players and a third wheel, as usual. Kenny and Sugar. Michael
Oowatanite		#4305	[-]
Posts: 6527 (12/11/08 10:57 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	OnlyTheHunter wrote: I was wrong about the idol killing Matty, but I also thought that you could play it at F5. Not sure how I screwed that second part up. You didn't screw that up. This is the New Survivor. They change the rules and insert twists as they go along. See Adam and the Aitu Four. Hell, Yul was protected all the way up to the F3. I don't think that Sugar was allowed to just hand over the HII to Matty but Probst let it go because it didn't matter (other than drama) since he knew that Crystal was gone 4-2 anyway.
chapera rocks		#4306	[-]
Posts: 10002 (12/11/08 11:36 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It has been confirmed that the idol can be transferred at tribal council, since Fiji I believe.
AndreSurvivor		#4307	[-]
Posts: 266 (12/12/08 12:22 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The good versus evil thing doesn't still well with me. It may have been mentioned, but once we hit the finale, the final two boots I don't think fit with that madness. I can see Matty wanting desperately to boot Bob if he doesn't win immunity again, and then Sugar sees Matty isn't the good guy she thought he was. Susie, Matty and Kenny, no matter how much they dislike each other, will kick Bob out as soon as they can.
Mypoody2		#4308	[-]
Posts: 8422 (12/12/08 12:52 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chapera rocks wrote: It has been confirmed that the idol can be transferred at tribal council, since Fiji I believe. I hadn't realized that either. I guess it doesnt matter since they don't use it after the votes are revealed, it doesn't matter if you have it with your or not it's still a guess if you need to give it to someone or not.
James Barber		#4309	[-]
Posts: 14753 (12/12/08 12:56 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: Amber was UTR1 in the penultimate episode. She was OTTN2. They never did Finale ratings for that season. Let look at this thing logically. "Everyone" (including Sugar) is wary of Susie/Matty. They know they're together. They have to be broken up. Ken has no one. Sugar can use him now. Bob is an IC and FTC threat. Kenny isn't. Matty kinda is. Makes sense for Matty and Bob to go next. Kenny would beat Sugar and Susie. I say Kenny wins! Sugar has already said she knows Ken would beat her. Susie and Sugar probably both know that. They're in a position now where they have to basically figure out who they might not lose to, if there's anyone. The theme stuff - they've spent more time discussing the underdogs vs. the power players than good vs. evil. First Fang as a tribe making bad decisions, then little Sugar chopping Ace, then Fang knocking Marcus and Kota, then just when Kenny and Crystal should have the power, boom, Kenny is an underdog again. To the end. Kenny's an underdog in the most general sense (since his closest ally is gone), but to me the editing has never tried to make him an underdog. Even at Fang, when it seemed like Ken and his alliance would have no chance, they still didn't play that angle. Last Edited By: James Barber 12/12/08 1:00 AM. Edited 1 times.
menelaus		#4310	[-]
Posts: 36 (12/12/08 1:02 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Even with Ken's peculiar situation, I still think he wins. Going back to episode one and the Michelle thing. They showed it. They never showed a lot of the other not so important relationships in the game (Paloma/Charlie wasn't shown at all, only alluded to in Charlie's voting confessional, and the two had comparable impact on the game). This season has the whole "good" v "evil" thing, and you could call underdogs good. Ken is an underdog again for the 4th time (with Michelle, the Ace coup, the Marcus coup, and now). He barely had control for two minutes, and it was smashed instantly. He also got an edit that looked pretty good during the Marcus saga, but it was ignored because Marcus's edit was so obvious. The other contestants, on the other hand, all have bad edits. Susie and Sugar cannot win, no matter what the F3 combination is. The onions will never vote for either of them (they hate Sugar as a person and don't think Susie would deserve it over the others), and their edits have been pretty weak (especially Susie's). Matty has 1 cp, bob has none.
menelaus		#4311	[-]
Posts: 36 (12/12/08 1:02 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	double post, sorry.
BlakeB717		#4312	[-]
Posts: 1215 (12/12/08 1:14 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Think about the reunion. They show stuff from the first episode, winnery-confessionals. They show the winner in action. I can picture Kenny. I can't picture the rest but Bob possibly. But intuition isn't a part of edgic, so ignore this:)
sunflower101		#4313	[-]
Posts: 4121 (12/12/08 1:17 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SwineForkbeard wrote: So being blindsided improves Kenny's chances of winning. That's a new one. I definitely don't think that Kenny wins. I did at one time. I now think it is Matty or Sugar.
sunflower101		#4314	[-]
Posts: 4122 (12/12/08 1:20 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SFC wrote: By the end of the episode it looked for sure that Sugar or Matty would win, there is no possible way Kenny can win. Kenny now has big doubt, and with Crystal another Jury connection Matty has a jury connection if Randy/Kenny are on the jury. Why else show that early alliance of Matty/Susie/Dan/Randy?
sunflower101		#4315	[-]
Posts: 4123 (12/12/08 1:24 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yesmar88 wrote: This is all so confusing. On one hand, if the final theme is Good Vs. Evil, Kenny can't win, since he's been defined as evil in this episode. On the other hand, why wasn't he edited worse? For people who are supposed to be evil, him and Crystal didn't get edited too badly. But then the "on the finale" part ended with Matty saying "Good must prevail." With that tone, going into the finale how can the editors possibly justify a Kenny win? I'm not sure Bob can pull a Danni though. Who's his Stephanie? Probst said that we would "feel good" about the winner, and up until recently they haven't really edited Bob to make us feel anything about him at all. I really think that Matty or Sugar has to win at this point, although it doesn't seem clear how Sugar possibly can. It's possible that Crystal and whoever the other three jury members turn out to be vote for Sugar. Bob/Matty/Susie could easily vote for Sugar to win, depending on who ends up on the jury. If some how Sugar were against Bob in a final vote, could Randy vote for Sugar because he was upset at Bob for making a fake idol? Could Matty be seen as just riding people's coat tails so he doesn't win?
Sploch		#4316	[-]
Posts: 873 (12/12/08 1:27 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	people can't get confused between editing and actual events. crystal got voted out in the reality of the game. 'doubt' is when the editors try to trick the viewer into thinking someone might not win. i'm not discounting kenny, i just think saying tonight gave kenny edgic-doubt is trying to push square pegs into circle holes. that being said, besides her INV, Sugar is an interesting figure in the game. She has a great story arc. She is the 'eve' in the garden of Eden. She has been in the middle of every major move. Kenny called her smart; said that she was playing a different type of strategy (and then proceeded to manipulate her). This theme came full circle when she told Matt she'd do the thinking for him (a seemingly extemporaneous scene) and then followed through. She has incredible doubt (with the editors leaving in both Corinne and Randy saying that they'd never vote for her). She has jury connections. If there's anyone's edit that is being manipulated, it's Sugars (and they're manipulating it to make her look sweeter, smarter, more strategic, but have included that the jury doesn't like her). Oh, and tonight she was definitely CP (if I understand what it means to be CP). She was the mastermind of the Crystal blindside, the development of her thought process was shown: beginning with her saying that she definitely wants Matty out next, then her realizing that Crystal/Kenny are not 'good' people, then her pulling off the blindside. I'm not saying I think she's going to win. Right now, I'm still leaning towards Kenny (with Matty a close second), but I want to know why, besides the INV, is Sugar immediately discounted.
BlakeB717		#4317	[-]
Posts: 1216 (12/12/08 1:29 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Because she is WAY too P.
sunflower101		#4318	[-]
Posts: 4124 (12/12/08 1:34 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AndreSurvivor wrote: What gets me is the fact that Crystal was the one leaving yet they gave Kenny all the TC questions and strategy talk. I still believe that depite seemingly overplaying his hand, getting rid of Bob and Matty in the next two TCs is likely. Sugar could wake up tomorrow and suddenly feel bad about voting out Crystal, start crying, and then do something different. She is crazy. Nothing she does is related to strategy... if it were, Matty would be gone. I don't think she was crazy. I think she honestly thought her best chance to win or at least get second was with Kenny/Crystal. Remember Kenny tricked her into voting out Ace. I think that after Kenny voted to boot out Matty, she stopped trusting Kenny/Crystal so much. Remember they all had a final 5 alliance. Now that doesn't mean she won't re-align with Kenny at some point. Kenny caused Crystal's boot with his own moronic vote for Matty. Either Crystal/Kenny should have booted out Matty out or both should have booted Corine.
Venatrix Avia		#4319	[-]
Posts: 14 (12/12/08 1:58 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Katy Carney: I thought Jeff Probst's language during the previouslies was interesting. "Then, Kenny changed the plan and ORDERED Crystal to vote out Corrine." I don't know what it means but I thought it was a strange way to describe what I saw. I agree that it did seem a somewhat revisionist take on what we saw, but I think that it was done to reinforce Crystal's presentation as a Loyalist, one whose game is meant to be read primarily as an extension of Kenny's own. I would say that this fits with the pattern of editing Crystal has received over the entire season. Even Crystal's one big game-changing move -- Marcus's ouster -- was editorially presented as inextricably connected to her personal loyalty to Kenny. If Crystal had been a character with a different destiny in this game, then that move might well have been presented to us as more self-interested: more about saving herself down the line than about saving Kenny. But that's not been Crystal's role this season. Crystal's role this season has been as Kenny's Loyal Ally. Her story is always tied to his. By granting Kenny, rather than Crystal herself, primary agency for the Corinne vote, the editors are making sure that the audience reads it as "Kenny's blunder leads directly to Kenny's setback." And just to make sure that we do that, we're also given that early confessional, in which Crystal talks about her suspicion that her vote for Corinne was a terrible mistake. (Note that Crystal has consistently been portrayed throughout this season as strongly intuitive; it is the only aspect of the game at which she has been shown to do well.) This too reinforces the idea that the blunder wasn't really Crystal's so much as it was Kenny's.
getting real		#4320	[-]
Posts: 1428 (12/12/08 4:48 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	OTH asked: That was fun. Now who couldn't possibly won and who looks like they can't lose? Ah, OTH, the penultimate episode.... That would be Susie for the first part and Bob for the second part. Too bad Bob has been safely eliminated for some time now for being grossly ignored at key points in the game and for being far too OTTPPPPPP. However,Wallduck et al, he is one of the good guys. Which does fit the theme of the season. The contravention of which, as Pleasant Mama has pointed out, would be sheer lunacy on the part of the producers. Especially given the way the editors presented, nay, the way they have signed, sealed and delivered this particular season. Last Edited By: getting real 12/12/08 10:00 AM. Edited 2 times.

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