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 astroline |
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Posts: 1743 (11/30/08 4:33 PM) Registered user |
I don't think any edit will ever be like Natalie's! Truly the most one-of-a-kind edit ever in Survivor history. Nothing else can come close.
And now there's finally some possible Crystal support? She's been on my Contenders chart for a total of 6 weeks actually. |
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NickF227 |
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Posts: 5217 (11/30/08 4:33 PM) |
cindidindi76 wrote:I'd be very pleased if Bob started screaming about how his gonna ram Quantum Physics into Corrine so hard she'll get a brain hemmorage. |
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 ncassaro |
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Posts: 360 (11/30/08 7:53 PM) |
cindidindi76 wrote: Cindi where do you live? I go to University of Rochester... me and my roommates are all huge Buffalo fans... and were pissed today, lol. |
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fat little fingers |
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Posts: 5760 (11/30/08 9:15 PM) Registered User |
craig:This is a little blatant and simplistic to be a hint at the win, don't you think? |
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getting real |
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Posts: 1396 (11/30/08 9:21 PM) Registered User |
Astroline said:
Astro, there's an aspect of the edit that makes me very bearish on the chances of Crystal and, for that matter, Kenny. It concerns the very unusual editing choices made at the time of Jacquie's boot. In reality, booting Jacquie was a crucial part of Fang eventually turning the tables on Kota since, after Kelly and GC left, Marcus would've given immunity to Jacquie and she would've given the numbers to Kota post-merge. At the very least, Fang booting Jacquie altered the dynamics in their favor. One would've thought that, even within the context of the 'Fang is hopeless' story the editors were telling, had the winner been one of the perpetrators of the move to boot Jacquie, the editors would have been sure to present the move as a positive, one that laid the foundation for the victory. Instead, Jacquie's boot was presented as sheer lunacy on the part of Fang ("having a death-wish", they called it). This is a good thing for those who were against the move at the time, ie. Matty and Sugar. And it is very, very bad for the chances of those who initiated it. This includes Kenny but, principally, Crystal, who was presented as the ultimate decision-maker (Kenny to Jacquie: "Speak to Cystal"). Sometimes, when analyzing a detective story, it is important ask ourselves how the plot would have changed if a particular suspect was the killer. In this case, I believe that the plot-line surrounding Jacquie's boot would have been presented very differently if Crystal (and, to a lesser extent, Kenny) were the winner. |
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Posts: 1871 (11/30/08 9:41 PM) Edgician |
The only problem with that otherwise top notch theory, Bob, is that makes it too soon to shown them as underdogs. They are still to lose all those challenges,
to have blow ups, to work on Sugar, and it's once Sugar entwines with them by booting Ace that fortunes changed. To payoff the hopeless Fang turning into
the overdog, they still had to be the underdogs at that juncture.
Maybe. Michael |
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 8838 (11/30/08 10:17 PM) Registered User |
right, but also -arguably- the strategy of the game has been left to the wayside in the story, and the theme seems to be more about reaching deep in
performing, not giving up.
The Jacquie boot doesn't really bother me for any of Crystal, Kenny or Matty winning since (as Hunter said) it goes back to the early theme of Fang needing to get their act together. Crystal also said something about almost falling for Jacquie's $$$!$ that will echo back when Sugar and she tell Matty not to let others "get in your head." I think even if Crystal loses, she'll fall in line more with Ozzy as a feel good runner-up- most likely all of them will with the exception of Kenny if he gets taken out by Sugar for the Ace lie. |
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getting real |
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Posts: 1397 (11/30/08 11:02 PM) Registered User |
^^^
OTH and CL, had one of those behind Jacquie's boot actually won the game, it would have been possible to present the boot within the overall context of Fang being hopeless and underdogs and still give credit to the perpetrators for a potentially good move. That is, to separate Crystal and Kenny from other 'losers'. Or, at the very least, isolate them from the general opprobrium that Jacquie's boot was accorded at the time. CL, it's one thing to leave the strategy of the game by the wayside for the sake of the story. It's another thing altogether for the editors to eschew a golden opportunity to showcase the winner making a move that would lay the foundation for victory. Even if done in a subtle, understated way, I couldn't imagine the editors bypassing such an opportunity. Instead, what we are shown, apart from Crystal's and Kenny's interactions with Jacquie, are a couple of inserted, somewhat unnecessary scenes: Sugar, interviewing in the middle of the night, being upset at Jacquie's departure; and Matty, shown to be warning Jacquie of what was going down. If the intent was to tar all of Fang with the same brush, why show this division among Fang? If this division was only for the purposes of creating tension for the episode boot, couldn't that have been achieved in other ways? Does it not strike you as odd that the very strange editing in that episode showed Fang divided roughly along the lines of whom we now know to be on the side of Good versus the rest?
Last Edited By: getting real
12/01/08 2:56 AM.
Edited 6 times.
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craig |
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Posts: 14393 (11/30/08 11:09 PM) Registered User |
The Jacquie boot doesn't really bother me for any of Crystal, Kenny or Matty winning since (as Hunter said) it goes back to the early theme of Fang needing to get their act together.Working together means intergrating the New Famg after the early switch. Not treating a strong, deserving, posotive player like Jacquie as an outcast. Ken and Crystal committed the same sin as PG and Jamie. Matty was the good guy, wanting to playing nice and strengthen the tribe. Ken isn't really a team player. He LIED to Sugar to get ace booted. He feed his tribe false propaganda so he could target Charlie for a personal reason. Neither Yul or Parvati was shown treating allies so cynically. The recap showed Matty winning the IC that send marcus home. Interesting that Fang's one big IC win was an INDIVIDUAL achievement by Matty. The "clean slate" scene wasn't in the Recap. Yes, Fang followed self-interest to take down the Onion Big Boys, but I don't think we'll see Matty singing Kumbaya with Kenny and Crysal at F3. |
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BlakeB717 |
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Posts: 1143 (12/01/08 12:49 AM) Registered user |
Kenny is being shown so devious because he's the ultimate underdog, as he said in Episode One. No one expects that a videogamer who is stereotypically
antisocial could outsmart all these people.
Sorry for my lack of posting in this thread, but, when it's fighting for any of the females being a possible winner I just get tired. Sorry if that's being bitchy, but, Crystal Sugar and Corinne were out of it a long time ago. |
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round peg |
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Posts: 119 (12/01/08 5:00 AM) |
And if one of them wins??? Can you finally shut the fuck up?
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 1426 (12/01/08 8:01 AM) |
I think you all are giving way too much importance to the recap episode. Just remember, the new scenes were those that didn't make the cut for the
original episodes. From an editing standpoint, they are all fluff - unneeded.
The narrative conforms to the show for the most part although it does confirm that Fang were underdogs, not hopeless losers. Yes, we all know booting Jacquie in reality was key for Fang's takeover, but the editors still want it to be seen as a bad move. I think this choice is as a disincentive for future players to consider the "throw the challenge and boot the strong" strategy. (If the players stop putting any emphasis on the challenges, they become extraneous, and that wouldn't be good for the show.) I don't see any future repercussions for Jacquie's boot. The "bad consequences" already took place in the tribe continuing to lose challenges. Corinne's rant about the jury vote and Sugar would normally be either foreshadowing or irony. If it was ironic (Corinne votes for Sugar), I think it would have been shown in the original episode. Perhaps it isn't foreshadowing either - Sugar seems likely to face the jury, but it isn't a given yet. |
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RobVanStratus |
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Posts: 7276 (12/01/08 9:16 AM) Registered User |
Oh Edgic, you make me chuckle. First the recap is imporant, then when Kenny is ignored in it, it isn't important. Then when women are viable winner
candidates, everyone screams they were eliminated a long time ago. Was not everyone eliminated when you mostly all had Marcus the winner? And if you could
correctly pick edits, Kenny would be eliminated back for his rightfully deserved INV in the episode Fang won Immunity.
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 1427 (12/01/08 9:34 AM) |
RVS,
Edgic isn't a monolith. Perhaps someone stated the recap was important, but I never did, and I didn't even mention Ken in my post. Are the women eliminated? I suppose that depends who you ask. Susie I think is safely eliminated. I think Sugar is eliminated as well (though I'll admit she makes me nervous). I had Crystal on the verge of elimination earlier this season when she seemed the focus of a string of episodes, but since then she's received a needed cooldown. Others may be eliminating her (based upon what I consider faulty ratings), but I'm not. I don't think she can beat Ken, but if Ken should fall, I think she's the most likely to succeed. If Crystal does win, I think many here will have to review their rating process. In a sense, I think they are correctly applying Edgic to the wrong ratings. No, not everyone was eliminated when Marcus was the frontrunner. It may have seemed that way, and perhaps some truly thought so. I know I posted an argument in favor of Ken before Marcus' departure, and I've never eliminated Matty although his edit doesn't really excite me, and I'm not the only one. Marcus did have a good edit per Edgic guidelines, and his winner support was deserved per Edgic even if it proved faulty so I'm not going to apologize for it. The INV rule is pointless in my opinion because it is entirely subjective as to whether someone is INV or not. Most of those who are INV are eliminated naturally enough anyway and those that aren't shouldn't be (even if they don't ultimately win). I'd thus dispute your statement on several levels. |
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 8839 (12/01/08 9:35 AM) Registered User |
but Rob, who is Edgic?
You are Edgic. You are adding an opinion, just like all the other conflicting opinions. There is no collective mind. |
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Katy Carney |
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Posts: 2436 (12/01/08 11:53 AM) |
I heard Edgic wants Rob to stfu and gtfo plz.
I've been thinking maybe Matty wins. With all the negativity Fang got for being such a giant gaping disastrous hole, Matty was always shown to be off to the side, frustrated and disappointed that his tribe wasn't smarter and more efficient. I'm not sure if he was intentionally edited as removed from that negativity or if that's....just how it was. If edgic is premerge, that's what I remember. Fang was stupid, and Matty was the voice of reason. |
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Edinboro |
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Posts: 3463 (12/01/08 12:26 PM) |
ncassaro wrote: UOR??? My uncle does sports news up there. I wonder if youve seen em on the tube. =P |
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Mypoody2 |
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Posts: 8372 (12/01/08 2:56 PM) Registered User |
I've been saying for a while now that I think Crystal is the winner. Mainly because she had the most obvious winner's quote in episode 1 other than
Ace's which... well... didn't pan out.
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7neves7 |
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Posts: 2798 (12/01/08 3:27 PM) Registered User |
Rob, I love how you come in here and bitch about how bad edgic sucks. I have been following edgic since season 6 when Jenna was picked as the winner. It is
pretty clear that Edgic is great at picking the end game players, but is not 100% correct at picking the winner. It does a great job of picking those 3 or 4
players that are going to be in the end game, from there it comes down to using some logic and overall themes in order to find the winner.
If you hate Edgic so much then just leave. As CL was saying, there is not one "edgic" person in here who decides for everyone. |
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getting real |
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Posts: 1398 (12/01/08 4:16 PM) Registered User |
TLS wrote:
Yes, we all know booting Jacquie in reality was key for Fang's takeover, but the editors still want it to be seen as a bad move. I think this choice is as a disincentive for future players to consider the "throw the challenge and boot the strong" strategy. (If the players stop putting any emphasis on the challenges, they become extraneous, and that wouldn't be good for the show.)Are you seriously suggesting that future players will tailor their strategy on the basis on how they may be edited on the show? You have to be kidding, TLS. The beauty of this show is that the contestants are always one step ahead of the producers. And that goes right back to the start when Hatch turned into something that they hadn't envisaged. MB was ropeable when Gretchen was booted; more so when Rudy lost. Imagine if Hatch thought of how he would be portrayed as a villain before letting go of the pole in the last IC! Yes, of course, the producers try to achieve what they want through casting, twists, etc., but they will always be one step behind of where the contestants themselves take the show. The beauty is that, for all their intentions, they can't influence how the show turns out. They can't make Terry win, for example, just because they want him to do so. Yes, they might then try to change things for the future by introducing a Final 3 instead of Final 2 but the horse has already bolted. You can rest assured that of someone thinks it in their interest to throw a a challenge in future they won't be dissuaded by the edit given to Jamie or PG. And if they need to boot strong players they're not going to hark back to Probst's frantic voice-overs in this series. |
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