Actually, I don't think Matty at least was ever eliminated by Edgic.
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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon
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 Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 6456 (11/16/08 4:48 PM) |
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 8779 (11/16/08 4:56 PM) Registered User |
I'm just looking at what the endgame could be- I feel too much has been made about Sugar being dumb, and not knowing how to play the game but learning, and
Kenny noting it. And now the angle of Sugar not trusting Kenny (reinforced at tribal council). If Corrine was an endgamer what good does it do to have her
think Sugar is dumb (or at least not have her pulse on it that she might not be)? It would be like going two steps backwards in what I feel the story is
trying to do. And I might be completely wrong.
But I feel like more has been set up about the dragging Sugar to the end by Ace/Bob/Corrine, and Matty's worry that Sugar would use the idol on him in the Ace/Sugar/Matty alliance, along with Matty/Sugar's do or die alliance scene with framed sun/setting sun and tense action music. So, I feel in order for Corrine to be an endgamer (not to mention, winner) she would have to be tied into the story about something not sitting right with her about Sugar. More or less, attempting to solve the puzzle. I just get the felling/sense that Corrine is being used in the story as a pawn for the middle/late game in order to instill more drama before she leaves. With Sugar/Kenny, I think there are a few possibilities. Kenny does vote her out right by the end, but on the jury points out how sharp she was, and she probably votes for him. Sugar idols Kenny out of the game or is a deciding vote on getting him out (final five or four)- or it comes down to a trust factor in a crucial situation and both work it out in dramatic fashion and are both in final three. But it's an endgame crucial moment no matter what avenue it goes down in my mind. |
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 8780 (11/16/08 5:00 PM) Registered User |
I was joking in the sense that let's not take ourselves too seriously here. A little perspective is all I meant.
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panurge46 |
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Posts: 1151 (11/16/08 5:09 PM) Registered user |
Even if Kenny knows that Sugar isn't dumb, he continues to lie to her. I think that showing Kenny's confessional about his reason for targeting
Charlie killed his story.
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getting real |
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Posts: 1352 (11/16/08 5:14 PM) Registered User |
Even if Kenny knows that Sugar isn't dumb, he continues to lie to her. I think that showing Kenny's confessional about his reason for targeting Charlie killed his story.Panurge, Kenny's reason for targeting Charlie received Probst's official imprimatur in the recap when he told us that Charlie had 'robbed' Kenny of the HII clue. Sugar and Corinne are interesting. I've thought that the two of them are intertwined since Corinne's "I don't want to be the only girl' comment. CL's reasons add fuel to that fire. Perhaps Marcus' comment about there being only one Adam applies to Eve also! |
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RobVanStratus |
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Posts: 7200 (11/16/08 5:23 PM) Registered User |
Oo, warrior doesn't like me because I called him and many Edgicers out on using spoilers during China. He made it clear in PM's to me that he had read
spoilers and knew about the F3 spoilers and Amanda being pegged as the winner.
But it doesn't matter if you like me or not, Edgic has failed. And if you can't see that, you are incredibly thick. And I think it's funny everyone points out Sugar is learning how to play and is "dumb," but Kenny admitted I think in the last episode or one of the more recent episodes, that he too was learning how the game was played and he was getting better. So it's not just Sugar that is shown as learning the game. |
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JaMalle |
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Posts: 4328 (11/16/08 5:36 PM) Registered User |
I'm seeing some excellent analysis here. Edgic <3
Bravo Phoenix for your OTTN case concerning Corrine. As much as I love Corrine, I can't really see her as having much winner potential. Even if you're a devout believer in "Theory 2", I can't ignore the 2 really really close INVs (firm believer in INV = death) plus the fact that she's increasingly becoming a major antagonist. |
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ncassaro |
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Posts: 277 (11/16/08 5:37 PM) |
colleenlover wrote: I'm not saying it like it's a horrible thing though.... but we did fail and edgic will be no more successful if we don't just admit it, move on, and make it better. I just don't see progress from saying, "oh, ok, it's not a merge yet." And really, it's hard to convey emotions on the internet... i'm sorry if my posts on this subject were overly mean/serious.
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Warrior |
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Posts: 2743 (11/16/08 5:41 PM) Registered User |
RobVanStratus wrote: I did NOT tell you I was spoiled because I wasn't you ASSHHOLE! 
YOU spoiled me in a PM.
Last Edited By: Warrior
11/16/08 5:44 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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JaMalle |
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Posts: 4329 (11/16/08 5:42 PM) Registered User |
BTW, Kenny was definitely negative this last episode. I don't know if everyone was rating him that way or not. The scene before the Intro was a little bit
mixed. Even though he was finally standing up for himself, he said "The Crystal in me came out" which isn't a very good thing... We then see his
whole deal with targeting Charlie, which came off as negative and vindictive to me. Plus, I don't think I'm alone when I say that Kenny came off as
arrogant. Kenny was a clear CPN this last episode.
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ncassaro |
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Posts: 278 (11/16/08 5:51 PM) |
Warrior wrote: I never said I expected us to pick in episode one.... ever. And great job picking Parv for number 2. What I'm saying is that this season, most people (again, myself included) didn't *have* a number two. It was "Marcus or bust" or "Marcus... huge gap..." That's a problem! |
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wallduck |
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Posts: 465 (11/16/08 6:02 PM) Registered User |
With Sugar/Kenny, I think there are a few possibilities. Kenny does vote her out right by the end, but on the jury points out how sharp she was, and she probably votes for him. Sugar idols Kenny out of the game or is a deciding vote on getting him out (final five or four)- or it comes down to a trust factor in a crucial situation and both work it out in dramatic fashion and are both in final three. But it's an endgame crucial moment no matter what avenue it goes down in my mind.The problem with the notion of Sugar in the final three is this: how do they allow someone to lose the vote after being edited so P? That would cruelly dash the hopes of a lot of gullible viewers. A casual viewer I know actually thinks Sugar is going to win, because she's been portrayed so sympathetically. An earlier (and simpler) version of the guidelines said: "OTTP characters go far but do not win." In fact, they don't even make the endgame, because that would be toying with viewers too much.
Last Edited By: wallduck
11/16/08 6:07 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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guatemala fanfic |
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Posts: 3936 (11/16/08 6:07 PM) |
I never said I expected us to pick in episode one.... ever. And great job picking Parv for number 2. What I'm saying is that this season, most people (again, myself included) didn't *have* a number two. It was "Marcus or bust" or "Marcus... huge gap..." That's a problem!Right, and I maintain that Marcus' edit was by far the best that there was, which is why I had a "huge gap" before anyone else. But you'll also notice that I, like most other people here, always had someone else on my chart, and for me, I had Marcus and Ken the episode before Marcus was voted out. I acknowledge that I said there was a 99% chance Marcus won and a 1% chance Ken won based on their edits. Marcus got voted off, so Ken now becomes my number 1 choice and I maintain that there is a "gap" between Ken and Matty in terms of likelihood. However, even though Marcus was overwhelmingly the #1 pick, NOT EVERYONE ELSE WAS ELIMINATED. That's the key. Had every single other person been eliminated except Marcus, then Edgic would have failed, but Ken WAS viable while Marcus was in the game (Marcus' edit was just BETTER at that time, hence why he was overwhelmingly the #1 choice), and Matty was arguably still viable at that time. |
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fat little fingers |
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Posts: 5726 (11/16/08 6:17 PM) Registered User |
Marcus was a miss and it shocked most of us when he left. But Kenny and Matty were not random replacements. All three were still within Edgic guidelines,
including the INV and opening confessionals, when Marcus left.
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SurvivorFanGP |
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Posts: 9480 (11/16/08 6:22 PM) Registered user |
*pops in*
Just my two cents, as someone who's read edgic for quite a while, I don't think it failed. Other candidates are still alive by edgic standards, yes? Marcus, Ken, Matty. One of them is gone. It didn't fail, you just picked the wrong one of the three that were still eligible, IMO. And "best edit" doesn't necessarily mean "winner". As long as the edgic guidelines fit the winner (which it still would, assuming Ken/Matty win), then it's still good. |
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theskoffingskeptic |
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Posts: 16 (11/16/08 6:32 PM) |
I thought I would restate my ( mildly modified ) ratings for the benefit of anyone voting
tonight.
2. Kenny is leading the Fang Alliance and Crystal is an OTTN distraction. 3. Randy and Crystal abhor one another. 4. Corinne wants to avenge Marcus and revenge Susie ( twice-over now ). 5. Sugar doesn't trust her "ally" Kenny and she isn't a dumb blonde. No, really. The editors said so. 6. Kenny is being edited for a hubris-driven fall from grace ( debatable ). 7. Sugar's HII and Bob's FHII.
Last Edited By: theskoffingskeptic
11/16/08 6:44 PM.
Edited 3 times.
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wallduck |
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Posts: 466 (11/16/08 6:33 PM) Registered User |
NOT EVERYONE ELSE WAS ELIMINATED. That's the key.
This goes to the heart of a lot of confusion, and it's something to be discussed in the off-season. A number of posters seem to think that
"eliminated by edgic" is synonomous with "I think this player won't win." There's never been an excuse for calling Marcus or
Matty or Ken eliminated by edgic. The fact that a number of people did so at the voting site means there's an education gap.
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Phoenix1269 |
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Posts: 293 (11/16/08 7:16 PM) Registered User |
final ratings... and my winner picks ...
The Blue Tribe (aka the lost luggage tribe.... i refuse to use the name they've chosen) Bob CPP3 - Bob showed us how AWARE he is of his position. Immediately after the vote off of Marcus and again on exile. Stated that he "didn't know" if Sugar found the idol. He was not shown to DOUBT that she had the idol... only that he didn't know. Showed us some strategy by making a fake idol, indicating it is like "robbing a bank" ... it's the idea of the gun (or idol) that's important. A weak CP... wouldn't argue a MOR. Charlie MOR4 - He was there, but he was pretty bland. I mean really... this is his EXIT episode, and we didn't get anything from the dude other than... how great Marcus was, and how mad Kenny was with him! Oh, and i think he strategized a bit with Corinne and Sugar... whatever. Corinne OTTN3 - see previous post: Corinne is OTTN Crystal MORN2 - pretty much ignored until TC... although TC was pretty explosive. Ken CPN4 - emerges as a mastermind and as growing up from boy to man... but upon reviewing, i felt that he connected HIMSELF to some pretty negative imagery...including Crystal ("my inner Crystal came out") and a rat (in MB's world...rats are never a good thing). His strategy is negative based...lots of lying and pettiness (revenge on charlie???), etc etc Matty MOR3 - upon reflection, i thought there was a lot more insight to his confessionals than i previously noted... but he was downplayed a lot too. 3 times that he thought he was next, and his name never even came up! He is our connection to the theme of this season. His dance sequence totally reminded me of Yul's. I feel like he's being kept out of the drama, even though he knows about it. Shown to have a strong connection with Kenny (2x). I went back and forth between CP & MOR .... he is an enigma for me. Randy OTTN4 - you call someone a Sasquatch and a t-rex.... and that you want to puke if you see her again. self-explanatory. Sugar MOR3 - even though she is aware of her position, we didn't really get into what her feelings are about being the swing vote. Yes we know she doesn't trust anyone... we don't get anything beyond that, and it's not new info... we knew this last week. Susie UTR1 - too bad. She didn't get anything on booting Marcus. She didn't get anything on her IC win... she is basically irrelevant to our story. The only thing I really noted was the N SPV on Corinne and her Hi-5 with Matty about it. I could see a slight P for the IC win. Winner... Who it's not: Susie... she has been way too invisible / UTR. The Editors only brought her out because they had too. Bob - There is strategy called a UTR player... and then there is Bob. Corinne - no matter how you slice it.... She told us herself... she doesn't want to be the only female. She has 2 official INVs... and yes one of them is debatable... but the other wasn't. That and the Editors regularly edit in contradictions and refutes.... Maybe they just want to see if she really can "own it" ... Crystal - too N, too OTT, she has contradicted her opening E1 statements every episode (ie blazing speed to win...) Randy - Waaaaay too much tone. And the last couple of episodes he has been shown to be a real asshole. And not just in confessionals. Sugar - there is like.... a 0.01% chance that she will pull this off... and Charlie told us how. She is playing DIFFERENTLY than everybody else. I feel though that she is just being used. Although probably has the best story so far... still think she's the sweetheart edit. Matty, Ken.... Ken, Matty.... Both have strengths and weaknesses in their edits. I think Ken has fit in edigcally quite well, but i'm having a small problem with the "rat" comment. I also think his story is about growing up....and part of growing up is learning to be humble and learning to accept failure. So, I'm giving the edge to Matty because of the heavy handedness of the theme that the editors are feeding us. Matty IS Gabon.... Matty IS TEAMWORK.... Matty IS FONG (or FANG ...whatever.... ) Matty is the Elephant (the elephant is the symbol of power, strength and royalty... elephants are supposed to be lucky and that a raised elephant trunk is supposed to bring money...) On the tribe that has had so many failures & dysfunction, Matty was regularly spared the tar & feather treatment. I wish he was a little more strategic...but the editors can't edit in something that isn't there. Maybe it is simply that Matty adapts and blends in well, and makes it to the end and is up against 1 or 2 very unlikable people?? eta: added link & fixed spelling.
Last Edited By: Phoenix1269
11/16/08 9:17 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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fat little fingers |
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Posts: 5727 (11/16/08 7:42 PM) Registered User |
Great post, Phoenix.
I've also been bothered by Kenny's rat sounds and that they've had him say that he can win this thing two weeks in a row. There's also the lying to Sugar, which ended with Matty and Sugar discussing it and not Kenny. In the Ep1 opening challenge, we had JP tell us about teamwork and selfishness. That was followed by Marcus being the first to the top, while we are shown Matty struggling to push the slowest women up the hill. Just reporting? Maybe. Kenny, though, talks about the game and winning. Matty talks about Eden and "stepping outside of the game" to appreciate Gabon and how he'll do anything to make the merge. So, Kenny- the shy gamer who is growing up, getting his manhood thing going and learning how to play the game, which includes deceit. or Matty- Thrilled to be in Eden, desperate to survive the Goof Troop, honest, never giving up, a team player. It's a lousy week to have my computer out of commission. The merge! But I choose Kenny over Matty for the win. The story of how Kenny grows and learns how to win vs Matty's love of the Gabon/Eden experience. At least that's how it reads as to this point. |
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RobVanStratus |
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Posts: 7201 (11/16/08 8:20 PM) Registered User |
Warrior, you did know about the F3 spoiler in China. I hadn't even mentioned any specific spoiler that was intruding into Edgic and you named it, NOT me.
So don't try to act like you are innocent, because I never named ANY spoiler in my messages until AFTER you already talked about the Amanda wins spoiler.
So fuck off asshole, keep up your FAILURE of Edgic this season.
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- Survivor Sucks
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- Big Brother - PAST SEASONS
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- In Memory, 9/11/01
