S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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panurge46		#2561	[-]
Posts: 1148 (11/11/08 5:33 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	"the slate is clean" The thing with that scene is that, afterwards, we heard Sugar saying she was duped by Crystal and Ken. So, is it really clean? "Fang needs a miracle" might have had viewers hoping they don't get it but, now that they did get their miracle, those viewers are worried. A large part of the audience pulls for those players that show they can handle the conditions and can win challenges instead of the weak that band together. We rejoiced with Marcus' boot. They didn't. Before Corinne's bitchy line, we heard Jeff saying Susie dissed her at TC and Susie herself saying she had the power. Corinne will have to own up to it in front of the jury where Susie should sit. As she will have to own up to Sugar, although, I agree, that eye roll was bad. Almost as bad as a few from Courtney in China. I don't know if I'm right either but that's where the fun is. Time will tell.
MultiGeminii		#2562	[-]
Posts: 1137 (11/11/08 5:38 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sorry, not an edgicer, but I wanted to jump in to say I completely agree with CL. It's not just one comment by Corinne. It's repeated nastiness. Every time she's shown, I think less of her- and I started out rooting for her. Courtney had some negative comments, but I think she had to be portrayed as more negative than Todd, who also had his negative moments. It's possible Corinne is in the finals and loses- most likely to Randy since if she makes finals, I think she'd be there with him- but I don't see her as a winner. If she were to win, I'd be furious at the editing team for neglecting her for several episodes and then focusing so much her crazy side when she is shown. Surely she has had some strategic moments that didn't involve her being cruel or insane, but they aren't showing those. I think it's either, Matty, Kenny, or Randy- in that order.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#2563	[-]
Posts: 1388 (11/11/08 5:44 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	What Probst thinks isn't relevant unless it is present in the edit. What the edit has shown is a tribe outmatched in challenges and divided by dissension. But note that challenges are no longer so important if they merge, and the dissension at least has been shown as potentially put aside. Face it, craig, you are letting your rooting interest guide your analysis again. Even before Marcus' boot, I was pretty sure the Onions wouldn't remain intact until the end because there was just no tension there. You noted it too. Corinne and Charlie only had access to the endgame through ties to Marcus, and those vanished when he was ousted. Your best argument would be for Randy to spoil the party (which I think unlikely under Edgic but within the realm of possibility), but even that doesn't change the basic underdog Fang storyline.
panurge46		#2564	[-]
Posts: 1149 (11/11/08 5:57 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	"Surely (Corinne) has had some strategic moments that didn't involve her being cruel or insane, but they aren't showing those." I see selective memory at work here. Her initial confessional laid out her whole strategy. Later, Corinne told her alliance she could bring Bob into the alliance and proceeded to do so. She was the one that told Randy the onions could be trusted when he was looking for someone to trust. She talked with Randy about Dan possibly having the idol and then talked about her plan to Marcus and Charlie. Finally, in the last episode, she talked with Charlie about Sugar and her idol and later with Randy about saving Marcus. No strategic moments? TLS, are you mistaking me with craig? I assure you that I'm not a fan of anyone, only of the story.
getting real		#2565	[-]
Posts: 1328 (11/11/08 6:24 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	CL said: I also don't think a responsible editing team can put in a line like "She's forty seven years old, what could she possilbly have over me?!" unless Susie beats her in placement. Otherwise, Corrine kicks out Susie, and Susie is home watching this with her family feeling worthless -not necessary to do on a game show. There are other ways to bring out the strategy. Whereas Sugar (or anyone else) can be edited as vitriolic as they want to be towards Randy. Seeing that he has no family with whom to watch at home... ********************************** TLS said: Face it, craig, you are letting your rooting interest guide your analysis again. ...... Your best argument would be for Randy to spoil the party. An entire season ago, after Micronesia Episode 6, CL said to Craig: Please love the middle-aged bald man next season, please, pretty please! That's prescience of the highest order, CL but sometimes, you need to be careful what you wish for! Last Edited By: getting real 11/11/08 8:53 PM. Edited 1 times.
BlakeB717		#2566	[-]
Posts: 1097 (11/11/08 6:44 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite
OnlyTheHunter		#2567	[-]
Posts: 1827 (11/11/08 6:47 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	cdindi asked me When is your birthday, if you don't mind me asking? I am turning into a decrepit, tired, overweight, soon to be bifocal wearing 39 year old on November 29. and also Courtney got her "She just sucks at life" about Denise, and she beat her. It wasn't necessary to show that, but they did. Not everything is a clue, sometimes it's just there to back up what they want you to think of the person who said it. Not only that, but afterward Denise voted for her to win with a shown voting confessional. Michael
colleenlover		#2568	[-]
Posts: 8724 (11/11/08 6:56 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The thing with that scene is that, afterwards, we heard Sugar saying she was duped by Crystal and Ken. So, is it really clean? Absolutely, you're right. I just observed that scene was pretty powerful and pieced together. And that it seemed like the half time moment which foreshadows them getting their shit together -of course, if they make it we still need tension within them. Sugar finding out and showing it reveals tension especially if we're in a situation where she keeps talking about it and then surprised at TC when she votes along with Crystal and Kenny. I am not saying I am right. I am just pointing out ALL story lines I can see. I am trying to be as unbiased as possible -otherwise you would be seeing post after post about how Sugar could be like Danni in regards to that episode two edit. In regards to it now being revisonist history in regards to Corrine -absolutely. Because I rewatched the whole season after Marcus got booted. Where at first I had Corrine and Charlie likely contenders for the endgame, they slowly started to slip. With rewatching, I paid more attention to what is being done with Corrine -and to me it looks more like being in control and telling us -I noticed the eye roll about Sugar, the hating these people, the duping of Bob, the stabbing in the face line, the bumbling music when she complains to Marcus about Susie when they get tree mail. And my hunch is more that they are crafting her as the meanie we cheer for when she gets voted out (nothing against Corrine as a person in real life). She's spent a lot of game time with Marcus, Charlie, Bob, Susie, Randy -all who will be on the jury or finalists -and we haven't received any comments about her that could come back for her to face or answer. Yeah, I thought the theme of Africa could be Samburu coming back together -and I was wrong. But back then, I also did note important things regarding Ethan and Kim Johnson had. And back then, I feel it was edited stronger in regards to all the castaways -hell, in the outback, we even had theories that Nick could win. And I didn't think the Samburus would win until Kelly was booted, except maybe Kim P. because she was edited so much softer than the Mall Rats, and that speculation only lasted a week. (that was a great week here at sucks, btw) In this case, I just can't find anything for Charlie, Bob or Corrine for the endgame. Randy, sure. And this isn't just because Marcus got booted -some of us have talked about people looking to make the endgame -I thought Sugar, Marcus and another -with Marcus still winning -but most likely with his allies going along the way. And in any case, I am having so much fun now -maybe because I'm actually invested in the game in a way I haven't been since the Marquesas. And I actually love the editing this season because I just don't know. I don't know anything! I watched that clip Blake -and wowwwwwsah, I'm excited. And who knows, Matty, Sugar, Crystal, and Kenny could go next, and I'd be scratching my head.
MultiGeminii		#2569	[-]
Posts: 1139 (11/11/08 6:57 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	lol panurge. Wasn't her opening confessional about her being a bitch and owning it? Discussing Dan or Sugar possibly having the idol- that is common sense- and in the case of Dan, I believe that scene was shown as set up for the Susie flip- the big mistake was voting out Dan. I'll give you pulling Randy to some degree, though he was looking to jump, but I do want to comment on the scene of her pulling Bob in as that was the scene in which I started to think she had no shot at the win- She is very lucky that Bob is not playing to win. She basically told him he was 5th wheel in an alliance of 4. Anyone playing to win would have seen right through that. To me she came across as arrogant in that scene- as arrogant as Marcus telling Ken he was going or telling Crystal his preferred boot order. The difference is Ken and Crystal aren't playing to lose like Bob is, and as much as ppl say they are being edited as the worst tribe ever, I think this contradicts that and shows that at least those two are strategic.
colleenlover		#2570	[-]
Posts: 8725 (11/11/08 7:03 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Courtney got her "She just sucks at life" about Denise, and she beat her. It wasn't necessary to show that, but they did. Not everything is a clue, sometimes it's just there to back up what they want you to think of the person who said it. Not only that, but afterward Denise voted for her to win with a shown voting confessional. Absolutely. Good points to both cindi and hunter. But I will point out Courtney already had Jean Robert's "luckiest player" quote working for her. And Courtney also said this in a reported scene with other people in a scene talking about the game. Corrine has this in a highlighted confessional. Call me crazy (which is easy) but I think the confessionals have more weight in the foreshadowing department -where they are lead by interviewers to give them an entire catalog of comments to splice in to fit into the perfect story. It seems like a set up when Corrine finishes it with a question, "What could she possibly have over me?" The impression seems pretty strong that Susie can not get over Corrine because Corrine is younger and stronger -so it's a surpise when Susie does. Sure, it could go the other way, but by playing the odds of storytelling, I'd give the hedge to the opposite happening in set-up questions.
colleenlover		#2571	[-]
Posts: 8726 (11/11/08 7:13 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I guess Sugar (or anyone else) can be edited as vitriolic as they want to be towards Randy. Seeing that he has no family with whom watch at home... Another good point. Just call it a hunch though in understanding human pyschology with what a person would do while editing. The Sugar moment seemed more like it was foreshadowing about the story -along with his "rocket scientist" comment about her for them to face off in some way. The Corrine moment seems more mean, and I can see an editing team saying, "oh, man we gotta put this in -it'll be so sweet when Susie smiles when Corrine leaves." Again, I can be wrong. But I think as a detective, you have to give the edge to a mean comment being squashed by the person it's being hurled at. Basic storytelling. Yes, Corrine can get her revenge, and "I am extremely vindictive" comes out by Susie leaving. That is certainly on the table. I personally want Corrine to stay in the game as long as possible.
colleenlover		#2572	[-]
Posts: 8727 (11/11/08 7:18 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	An entire season ago, after Micronesia Episode 6, CL said to Craig: Please love the middle-aged bald man next season, please, pretty please! That's prescience of the highest order, CL but sometimes, you need to be careful what you wish for! Yeah, getting real -I have really strange powers -kind of creepy. But note, they never work out to my benefit. Craig, did you feel any weird voodoo happen before the season began? Sorry. Last Edited By: colleenlover 11/11/08 7:35 PM. Edited 1 times.
Kitty Pryde1		#2573	[-]
Posts: 6381 (11/11/08 7:56 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Here's what we've got from the past episodes: 1. Fang was editted as constantly fucking up, even when they made smart moves, and they were portrayed as REALLY bad. I mean, people naturally root for underdog tribes that can't get it together, but it was almost like they wanted to cancel out any sorry feelings the audience had towards Fang by making us feel that everything was their own fault. 2. Kota, on the other hand, had the Onion alliance highlighted in episode two. There was literally no reason to show this alliance, especially given that two players from it have been eliminated due to twists. This leads me to believe that the Onions are extremely important to the end-game. Jacquie and Marcus are gone, but Corinne, Charlie, and now surrogate Onion Randy are still around. 3. Despite Fang being sucky, Matty was spared from almost all of Fang's negativity, and Randy was mostly showcased as being anti-Fang, a viewpoint the editting agreed with. Ken was spared, but only due to his connection to super-negative GC and negative-Crystal. I think Ken is likely to be in a Peih-Gee position as the last member standing of his alliance. 4. We've seen Matty forming alliances against Ken/Crystal twice now, both of which were failures, but it shows him as being unable to work with them. And the recent scene with Sugar foreshadows Sugar not wanting to work with Ken either because he lied to her. 5. I believe that either Charlie will go home next week (He was tied entirely to Marcus, so much like Tracy last season, with Marcus gone, odds are Charlie is too, probably via idol), then the tribes will merge. The Fang tribe will stay united in alliance and they pull in Bob, the outcast from Kota. The five of them pick off Crystal first (Her vs. Matty & Randy has been building for quite some time), then Susie (per Corinne's "I hate Susie" attitude.) Then Bob goes home (Matty picking Ken as his partner in his alliance with Ace, Randy calling Bob annoying and Bob just being generally disposable). Corinne gets booted next (she's being set up for a fall, plus Sugar/Matty/Ken have connections with one another, and Randy has his connection with Matty). Finally, at 4, Ken gets booted (Sugar wants him gone, Randy has no use for him, he's the last Fang standing, in a way). This leaves Onion member Randy, non-negative Fang Matty, and Exile Island Sugar. Marcus, Charlie, Corinne all probably vote for Randy due to the Onion connection. Ken votes for Sugar due to a variety of reasons we've been shown thus far. Susie could vote for anyone, Bob could vote for anyone, Crystal would probably vote for Sugar. These are just my thoughts. I don't read spoilers, this is just what seems to be the story the editors are creating, in my opinion.
menelaus		#2574	[-]
Posts: 7 (11/11/08 8:59 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The edit has set up a few conflicts for post merge, namely Randy vs. Crystal and Corrine vs. Susie. The Randy/Crystal thing was set up after the snake challenge, when Crystal called him a bitter old man in her confessional and he laughed at her breakdown. Susie/Corrine is really, really obvious (wanting to stab someone in the face is harsh...). This next episode should give us a lot on insight in terms of where Sugar and Matty end up, since that will basically decide the game unless it turns into PI 2.0 (which seems really unlikely with this weak of a cast). Also, given Sugar's idol, the way things SHOULD work out strategically for her is this, if she were at all smart: Sugar and Matty make a deal with Corrine and Charlie to side with them if they can get rid of Randy first. Corrine and Charlie would agree, since it gives them numbers, and they proceed to boot first Crystal, then Ken, and Susie last. Then, Matty and Sugar use the idol to get rid of Bob or Charlie (not Corrine, she loses in a jury vote), and then convinces Corrine to go against the other in the F4 vote. If Charlie manages to get two immunities in a row, then he goes to the finals instead. That would make a Sugar/Matty/Corrrine or Charlie F3. However, since Sugar and Matty have been shown to completely suck at this game from a strategical standpoint (both got completely duped by Ace, and then Sugar got played by Ken), this won't happen, but at the same time, Sugar and Matty have been shown not to want to work with Ken, since he played Sugar. Also, is it just me or have they been playing up the whole "Sugar really doesn't know what she is doing thing" with the whole leaving the idol in the bag, basically saying that she has it, and then getting played by two of the most blatantly cunning players in the game? I wonder if she will figure it out and start playing for herself.
Riliss		#2575	[-]
Posts: 4672 (11/11/08 9:35 PM) Ugly on the inside Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	getting real wrote: TLS said: Face it, craig, you are letting your rooting interest guide your analysis again. ...... Your best argument would be for Randy to spoil the party. An entire season ago, after Micronesia Episode 6, CL said to Craig: Please love the middle-aged bald man next season, please, pretty please! That's prescience of the highest order, CL but sometimes, you need to be careful what you wish for! thid actually occurred to me.
sunflower101		#2576	[-]
Posts: 3892 (11/11/08 10:09 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: OTH, could you go back and do a note sheet for Randy as well? I ask because I still think he's a very viable candidate. I mean, the editting has been SO in favor of "Fang sucks and doesn't deserve to live" that I just can't see someone like Ken or Matty having a winning edit. Randy, meanwhile, has always been on the radar but not necessarily the biggest character. He's been shown giving insight into his game. He has plenty of doubt because people might not like him. And he was tied in with the seemingly dominant Onions. Plus, he distanced himself from the Fang losers by berated them and being backed up by the editing. With some of the confessionals Randy was giving, they could easily have made him seem like a Jean-Robert-esque buffoon, but they didn't, and they basically haven't, save for the episode where Crystal wound up crying after the challenge. With Marcus gone, this past episode leads me to believe that Randy does take over the game as the leader. He takes Marcus' spot, sort of a passing of the torch situation. The way I see it, we were shown the Onion alliance very early on, and seemingly for no reason, now that the two strongest players are gone. We were shown personal relationships within the tribe, whereas on Fang, their entire story concentrated on the here and the now. Randy gets swapped to Kota and joins the Onions. If he's the winner, suddenly it makes a LOT of sense why they showed the Onions, because Randy leads them to the end and takes home the gold. It could also show why the Onions vote for him on the jury. Sugar/Matty might flip to Randy and take out Susie/Ken/Crystal once at least 2 of Corine/Charlie/Bob are gone.
MultiGeminii		#2577	[-]
Posts: 1140 (11/11/08 10:16 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yes, Corrine can get her revenge, and "I am extremely vindictive" comes out by Susie leaving. That is certainly on the table. I personally want Corrine to stay in the game as long as possible. LMFAO at this complete and total 180 in the span of one day. Pathetic.
OnlyTheHunter		#2578	[-]
Posts: 1828 (11/11/08 10:21 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Wanna explain that, Multi? No idea what you're trying to say. Michael
Darius23		#2579	[-]
Posts: 318 (11/11/08 10:21 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	KP, I found your analysis pretty interesting (and I usually do), but I don't particularly agree with it. What do you think of the following? 3. Despite Fang being sucky, Matty was spared from almost all of Fang's negativity, and Randy was mostly showcased as being anti-Fang, a viewpoint the editting agreed with. Ken was spared, but only due to his connection to super-negative GC and negative-Crystal. I think Ken is likely to be in a Peih-Gee position as the last member standing of his alliance. It seems to me that a large portion of Matty's support comes from people mentioning him being distanced from Fang while they were failing, but perhaps there is another justification; he actually was distanced from Fang through that portion of the game, and it did amount to something really big in editing and story terms. the TC where Ace went home was monumental to Fang's story, and Matty's distancing from Fang came to a climax; Matty voted with Ace against Crystal. Furthermore, if the editors really wanted Sugar to be presented as the swing vote, then Matty had to definitively be on Ace's side, and it would have taken more than one episode for editors to effectively convince viewers (especially considering that there were double TCs that week). He also was not entirely removed from their failure. Although I don't think it was heavily discussed here, Matty was a large part of the reason that they lost the snake running reward challenge - he TOLD people to quit (both Kelly and Crystal) and Fang was being criticized as being unable to work as a team that very episode. Yes, he wasn't associated with GC in the way that Crystal and Kenny were, but he was edited as being duped by Ace (is that really much better?). 1. Fang was editted as constantly fucking up, even when they made smart moves, and they were portrayed as REALLY bad. I mean, people naturally root for underdog tribes that can't get it together, but it was almost like they wanted to cancel out any sorry feelings the audience had towards Fang by making us feel that everything was their own fault I agree with others when they say that Fang's edit has not happened in Survivore before - but has it ever happened that such a dysfunctional group of people enter mid-game with a minority and STILL manage to win? Casaya fits the dysfunctional bill, while Aitu fits the minority, but I can't think of an example where both criteria are met. Perhaps this lends credence to the fact that Fang will be a bit of an edgic exception.
OnlyTheHunter		#2580	[-]
Posts: 1829 (11/11/08 10:30 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Edgic is looking for the winner, not tribal performance. Winners have been down 6-1, up 8-1, and everywhere in between. Kenny or Matty winning, wouldn't be an exception. Susie, now that's an exception. A hideous, scary, unmentionable exception. I try to think about Final TC, requiring speculation on my part. If Fang members get to the end, and so does Sugar, why wouldn't the Mota jury majority reward her? She started with them. The ability to have persevered would come up, and the vanquished would respect a minority who overturned them. Or blame Randy, making the F3, if he flips on everyone. Final TC is an anti Randy vote. The winner may not be loved. (For Marcus to win, that made sense.) The winner may have detractors. If Crystal is in the F3, ya think Randy will (based on the story so far) say, "Good job" to her? The story is what it is, and in the end, it's the explanation for Final TC. This one will, I think, contain conflict, hard feelings, and a rational explanation from the winner. Or else Bob wins 7-0-0 and I'm a total schmuck. Don't answer that. Michael And note, Matty has betrayed Fang's move all along, ratting them out to Jacquie, bonding with Ace and Sugar, then targeting Sugar, then voting Crystal. He's been spared somewhat from Fang lasting as well as they have. They have moved on in spite of him at times.

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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