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OZ Keeper |
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AbbyGirl |
Marcus gone? | ||
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I have been reading Survivor Edgic for years, this is my first time posting so be kind (I know, too much to ask here at Sucks!). I watched the most recent
episode on DVR when I got home from work late tonight (more like early this morning). I was totally shocked that Marcus was gone, I too had him picked to be
the winner or at the very least in the finale. Could the editors really be trying to fool everyone with his fake winner's edit? What does this mean for the
chances of everyone else? Is it now anyone can win... invisible, over the top, too positive, too negative.....it doesn't matter? If so, we could be getting
a big surprise come December on finale night! I was sure Marcus would be in the F3 with Randy and possibly Corinne. Randy reminds me of Hatch in a way,
negative at times, but articulate and often right in his views on others. I cannot believe after the way the first half of the season has played out that one
of Crystal or Ken could win. Ken is just not there enough, care (in editing) that has been given to Marcus and even Randy has not been given to Ken. I
don't see the Crystal support, yes she could be in the F3, but the winner? I had high hopes for her but since episode one she has been shown more on the
negative side IMO. Would a winner be shown sulking on the ground after spilling rice? Pouting and spouting off at TC, rolling her eyes, acting like she is
always right? Sugar and Ken make an interesting pair, Matty could be the winner but is he just another decoy in the second half? I really enjoy everyone's
insights here, FLF, CL, OTH, Warrior....you all rock! I guess we all have to start over on page one and figure out who's story this really is and why this
season's edit is different from all of the others, at least it seems like it is. I love not knowing who wins, but still want to try to figure it out. And
go ahead and flame me, but I'm glad Marcus is on the jury! I like him and feel like he was screwed over as many other Survivors have been in twists. I
would like to think someone Marcus likes will make it to the end and win, that could even be Randy! I hope Susie and Crystal go at Corinne's hands, I
would love Corinne to raise some hell before she leaves. I really doubt that will happen, it looks like for the first time Corinne will be in the minority and
it won't be pretty! Anyway, nice to meet you all and keep up the good work.
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SJHalle |
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Love this development, the rest of this season should be fun.
Matty-OTTP3 (He's true to his word and single handedly won Immunity for his tribe by the skin of his
teeth... when most of his tribe was gunning for him. I don't think this was supposed to be an M edit at all. His remarks in the challenge seemed to a
playful psyching out mechanism, and it was effective. I'm looking forward to the Matty and Sugar pairing. He's my number one pick with Marcus gone.
Sugar-MORP2 (I think Sugar is a hard player to edit negatively or even neutrally for the matter. She seems
like a genuinely sweet person with a dynamic personality. Captivating really. Her comments on the Idol Dilemma and the Tribe Shuffle were cute but her really
endearing moment for me came during her discussion with Matty. She showed remorse for what she'd done to Ace and we were supposed to feel bad that
she'd been duped by Crystal and Kenny. She's been portrayed as smart, but tonight she was once again shown as naive and vulnerable. America's
next Sweetheart for sure.
Last Edited By: SJHalle
11/07/08 4:17 AM.
Edited 2 times.
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nikkidj |
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I didn't tape last night's episode. I was so sure Bore-cus won that I wasn't even really interested. NOW, though, wow. Just wow. I'm trying to
go about this like CL, thinking about who has the storyline. Randy, definitely. But I can't get past Matty and his admiration of the elephant. That scene
was so out of character for survivor, it just stands out, and Matty started the whole thing. Could the guy who really "gets" Gabon be the one who
wins it all? I just don't know. And that rocks!
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Wow!
The king is dead, long live the king! I suppose this makes Ken the front runner, but then he had the "kiss of death" confessional in the promo. Oh, well. (Actually, I'm not going to give up on him that easily - let's see the confessional in context.) With Marcus out, it is time for a re-evaluation of what his edit actually was intended to mean. Basically, it does not look good for any original Kota. Corinne, Charlie, and Bob were robbed of the insightful comments that were given to Marcus. Their lack of development suggested the Onion Alliance would not make the end intact (though I never would have guessed Marcus would be the first to leave). It is not any more likely now that the remnant makes the end. Charlie is especially bad off since his only story was his admiration for Marcus, which now appears irrelevant except perhaps in a short term revenge arc. Corinne is shaping up as a late season villainess, an obstacle for the others to get past, and Bob is merely given the sympathetic elder edit - he could be gone next or he could be the last of the Onions to go in an outnumbered situation. I don't see any of these players making the endgame. Then again, there's Sugar, the last of the original Kota. She could make the endgame, but I still don't think she'll win. Her edit is that of the naive heroine - she could get close, but she'll cut off before the end. The original Fangs are where the winner lies, in my opinion. First of all, there's Ken, who I made the Edgic case for after last episode. As long as he doesn't get too overconfident, as suggested by next week's promo, I do think he wins, but he's certainly no lock. I don't really care for Matty's edit - it seems far too flat and impersonal - but he may have the next best edit for winning. The two players I've felt are distractions - Randy and Crystal - still are far too visible for my comfort, but grudgingly I'll reopen the door a crack for both. When the perfect Edgic profile gets booted, my confidence in my ability to read the editing gets shaken a bit. I'd still say they are longshots at best, but note that they get more SPV than just about anybody else, which could be important in front of a jury. (And game logic wise, Randy could well win if he makes jury - the Onions would all vote for him most likely, and Matty might tend that way as well, and whichever other players he faces will probably have to betray people to get there.) That leaves Susie, who I'm sure does not win, but she could well face the jury. With Marcus the first member of the jury, it looks like another F3 (ugh!), and Susie would be perfect for the honorary Becky role. We've already been told why she wouldn't get a vote. Position wise, she should coast there now. I can't see the merge being after F8, and Susie is safe if the newest Kota tribe faces another vote (Bob would leave). Post-merge, she should not be targeted no matter who is in control as she's the weakest player in challenges out there. The only way she gets targeted is if Corinne tries to follow through on her revenge plans, and I doubt Corinne will be in position to push for that. Again, she'd be the perfect goat for players to drag to the end so the closer the end gets, the safer she becomes. The battles are definitely being drawn up. We have Crystal v. Randy and Susie v. Corinne. We have Matty and Sugar in the ambiguous middle, unhappy with Ken and Crystal, yet reasonably concerned about the Kota alliance. My prediction is that the Fangs prevail, knocking out Charlie, Corinne, and Bob. Randy survives long enough to shake things up prior to the endgame, but who makes the endgame isn't all that clear. Ratings: Marcus - CP - weighed his newfound connection with Crystal against his alliance, and explained his ironic plot to remove the idol from the game. Crystal - CP - weighed Marcus' offer of a place in the new Kota 6 against her alliance with Ken Ken - CP - particularly so regarding the idol at the feast with first the clue and then the idol - was less so with regard to the vote Susie - CP - weighed her path with the Onions against the possibility of making her move against them Bob - OTTP - admirable challenge performance and 100% loyal Randy - CP - we saw most of the feast portion of the program from his eyes - mostly it is narration, but there's enough there to push him CP Corinne - MORN - other than pledge revenge against Susie before there was reason to, there wasn't much except general reaction to the new tribe Charlie - MOR - ditto with Corinne without the threatened revenge Matty - MORP - takes Ace's departure pretty well and saves himself in the challenge - his pendulum tone swings again Sugar - OTTP - cries about betraying Ace and agrees to help Matty - awww! Very little tone this episode and heavy on CP gameplay. It was basically a showdown of wits between Marcus and Crystal, and Crystal pulls the upset. |
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colleenlover |
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funny, lurker -the one person that I thought was the most complexly handled was Matty.
Marcus was OTT- but that might be revisionist history on my part. Charlie's confessional about Crystal picking Susie and laughing about it makes sense now as prideful. He's gone soon, and Corrine will be outdone by Susie -"She's 47 years old, what could SHE possibly have over ME?" Crystal's observation in the Ace boot episode about Matty/Ace being those "two dumbasses" out in the boat might be a hinky to Matty -but I feel all the prior negativity between Sugar, Crystal, Ken and Matty is out the window now -with the "clean slate" opening. Even the Matty/Sugar confessional about Ken duping them isn't going to come into play other than misdirection. hiya AbbyGirl -jump on in, the water's fine. |
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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The clean slate and Sugar's remorse counter each other - it is left up in the air how Matty and Sugar will align once the merge does take place. However,
I tend to agree with you, CL, that they'll put aside their differences long enough to boot Corinne and Charlie and probably Bob (if he's not already
gone).
Next episode, if Kota goes to TC, I'll expect a reluctant and respectful vote off of Bob. If Fang goes to TC, I'll expect the idol to be played, but any of Charlie, Matty, or Sugar could go (in that order of expectation). If there's a merge, Charlie is again the most likely victim. Perhaps Matty was complex too? I guess he had a confessional about the idol at the feast also, tying it to the Eden theme, but he otherwise just seemed more about reacting than sharing insight. Then again, I know we're not always talking about the same thing when we say "complex". Nah, Marcus was toneless, but calculating, and he really did appear to consider including Crystal in his plans. Marcus was brought low by overconfidence - he removed the idol because he felt safe without it, and he felt he could mollify both Susie and Crystal enough to keep them on his side. Keeping your options open is great, but it is a luxury Marcus shouldn't have entertained in this situation. Either stick it out with Susie and stick to her like glue to keep her away from Crystal (and certainly don't give Crystal ammunition with which to persuade Susie away) or break with Susie and vote her out, which Crystal and Ken probably would have gone along with. Ironically, whether editing or not, Bob and Marcus each gave statements at TC that let Susie know exactly where she stood. |
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7Sages |
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fat little fingers wrote:I still think Crystal could win. She could be another Todd |
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Cassidy666 |
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Hi everyone! I finally got through reading everyone's comments. I don't think I've seen such universal jubilation at someone getting voted out for
a long time.
I've always said Marcus's edit weas bland beyond anything. We were not given any insight into his character, just the surface and fluff
confessionals. Fluff does not a winner make. So please give it up to the devil's advocate... We now have a competition on our hands.
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Brazil Luvs Ami |
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why I don't think it is Kenny:
First of all when he choose Kelly we knew for game logic that was the best thing, strategically, to do, however the edition told us that it was the biggest stupid thing to do.. .If he was the winner they would have shown it as the way we saw it... Them he decided to boot Jacquie, again the edition shown us that it was also stupid. They should have booted Kelly, and we could read in Jacquie interviews that she would have betrayed them, so it was better for Kenny and Crystal to boot Jacquie... Now, he was the target, and he didn't receive a single confessional about it... The winner is MATTY - the edition always side with him!!!! |
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unduli clone |
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Okay, Marcus is gone. Why? Why was the pre-merge story of Kota so tied into him, and the editing reinforcing that Kota had the game? It couldn't have been to surprise us over one simple boot. Fang is going to turn this around and go to the end-game, of that I have no doubt. Their ineptitude has been overdone and with their ability to axe Marcus, I think they've got the power and the story arc to turn the game around now. Whose storyline is over? Who still has legs? Who can win??? Bob - He's been completely neglected in full episodes and in any talk of game or strategy. He has no long-term storyline and nothing to benefit from this milestone in the game. ELIMINATED. Charlie - He's being completely discredited, but with Marcus' ouster he may have a shot. He had his pre-merge UTR streak (peppered with an unhealthy INV1) when his tribe consistently won; a pattern we've seen before. Unfortunately, his whole story has been wrapped into the Onions and primarily into Marcus. His connections with the other Onions have been neglected - or perhaps hidden - and now that Marcus is gone he's alone. He has the potential to develop a personal storyline now that his hero and main alliance-partner is gone, so keep an eye on him. The fact that he's had a five-episode low visibility streak is disconcerting, but still, pay attention to him. Corrinne - Opening UTR, double-INV's, and negativity when she's present. ELIMINATED. Crystal - She now has the storyline to fly to the finals - tied into cursed Fang, she's now free from the tribe and outfoxing Adam. I think that if we want to get metaphorical, Crystal now has the best fit to Eve. I think she's a lock for the finals, but with her overabundance of tone and OTT's I don't think she can win. Ken - He has the best-looking stats out of what's left. His UTR's were too early and his MOR's were completely underedited and left him underutilized when he should have been. He also was a boot target in EP02 and this past episode but wasn't fleshed out as a boot target or really painted to be in danger. Still, we have to watch him. Matty - I really don't think he wins. He's had no real personal storyline, other than being tied into Fang and getting screwed with the Ace deal, and now he's garnering OTT's (with tone) up the wazoo. He's yet to have a CP, and hasn't been fleshed or developed into a personal character. I think he's going to be our Amanda of this season - a late-gamer with a lot of support who comes up short. Randy - Um, no. If he gets an N this episode (most likely), he'll have one out of eight episodes without tone in the first eight. And two are M's, one a P and four N's. There's no consistency there and definitely no winner. He'll probably face the jury, but he won't win. ELIMINATED. Sugar - Oh I wish. But she had an overtly weak start coupled with almost neverending P's. She's dead meat. ELIMINATED. Susie - Haha no. ELIMINATED. Ken seems the obvious one. Matty and Randy are smokescreens but won't win. I have my eye on Charlie and Ken til kingdom come. |
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colleenlover |
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By the way, CL, you do realize you just jinxed Kenny, Sugar, Matty and Crystal, right?
Uh-huh -I only jinx the person I single out as a winner, remember. I'm good at getting the endgamers, but never the winner. I know you're a big Corrine fan, and I think she's a really good character, but I think it's all about providing the color for the show now. Her being picked last confessional and about owning the game indicates the attitude that will present itself now -the opposition to the heros. With Marcus gone, there's really nothing wrapped up in a possible endgame dynamic -I do think she faces off against Susie again though -with Susie getting the last laugh. |
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Apollo Italiano |
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Wow wow wow! I was totally and completely shocked by Marcus's departure. I'm ecstatic that Edgic pinpointed the wrong person, I lost so much interest
in the supposed Marcus blowout that I stopped posting and sending ratings, but now that my interest has peaked and my free time has as well, I'm back in
this.
First, for ratings. NewnewKota Bob: The nice guy who was around... I don't think his challenge score was anything too positive. UTR1. Crystal: The hardcore player who doesn't plan on getting outwitted. CP4. Debateable CPP4 for kindness toward Matty and Marcus's comments. Ken: Role in finding the immunity note and the possible boot target. MOR2. Avoids CP due to no complexity and all strategy left to Crystal. Marcus: The complex player that had the game in the palm of his hands until the switch. CP5. Lol. Susie: Weighed decisions to stick with Kota or return to Fang, and we were inside her head the whole time. CP4. Avoids N as though called stupid (by negative nancies Corinne and Randy, no less), was not proven to actually be so. NewnewFang Charlie: Commented on things... role in seeing the immunity note. UTR1. Surprised to not see a 2 in visibility, though. Corinne: Hates Susie. Really hates Susie. OTTN2. Debateable MORN2. Was there more to her than the Susie hatred? Matty: Kept his promise to Ace and plans on getting by the next rounds with Sugar. Mere reporting on his position, no insight. MOR3. Possible MORP3. Randy: The arrogant, self entitled master of the game (with a wine glass in his hand) that actually knows what's going on. CPN4. Would be OTTN4 if it wasn't for his insights toward his relationships with Matty and the now departed Dan. Sugar: Regrets voting out Ace and wants to help Matty. Cries. OTTP2. Debateable MORP2. Winner Rankings 1. Ken Pros - Generally follows CP/MOR trend. Had strong first episode. Avoided massive negativity given to alliance mates Crystal and GC. Has distraction in Crystal. Cons - Episode 3 ranking in question, only showed during challenge. 2. Randy Pros - Generally follows CP/MOR trend. Had strong first episode. Avoided INV1 close calls. Cons - Massive amounts of negativity. Early conflicting tone. 3. Crystal Pros - Decent first episode. Does have MOR and CP episodes. Avoided INV1 close calls. Cons - Multiple OTT ratings. High visibility ratings midseason; likely distraction. 4. Matty Pros - Decent first episode. Avoided INV close calls. Follows MOR trend. Cons - Lack of insight or CP episodes. 5. Sugar Pros - Strong storyline: "smarter than I look." Cons - Weak first episode. INV1. Multiple OTT episodes. 6. Corrinne Pros - Decent first episode. Presented some insight. Cons - Two INV1 (despite one being debateable). 7. Charlie Pros - Decent first episode. Cons - Generally ignored; long string of UTR1. INV1. 8. Bob Pros - Avoid INV1. Cons - Bad first episode. Multiple OTT episodes; likely distraction. Generally ignored; long string of UTR1. 9. Susie Pros - Lol, yeah right. Cons - Weak first episode. INV1. Generally ignored; string of UTR1. That's my order. I really have no hope for anyone below Corinne, and Corinne and Sugar I'm only mildly entertaining just because of the drastic rocking of Marcus being lifted. I'm very confident one of the top four will end up taking this season. I personally hope it's Crystal, but I think it'll be Ken. Who knows! Maybe another shocker will appear next week. |
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Cassidy666 |
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CL, It's possible but I can't see it for one reason. Corinne has been shown with more depth than Susie right from the start, just comparing them side by side. Susie has been shown negatively as not being aware socially and also as a completely unpredictable player while Corinne has been shown strategizing as well as being a character. There has been almost no insight from Susie before the last couple of episodes. |
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DarkHelmet |
You're Still Here? | ||
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Before this season, I'd never seen Survivor. But, this year, a friend of mine is on the show, so I've been watching closely. I discovered this
message board while trying to find clues about how my friend did.
Most of the stuff on the Sucks board is standard internet crap, ("You suck." "No, YOU suck!) but the Edgic thread was civil, and appeared objective and analytical. That appealed to me. However, after a season of people overwhelmingly picking Marcus, he was sent packing, and along with it, any claim to legitimacy of edgic principles. Despite that, people are offering their new predictions, based on the very same edgic principles that just failed. For those of you who pride yourself on making logic-based judgements, you must understand that it's not valid to make conclusions based on false principles, right? Dissapointing as it may be for this board, while there is still plenty of room for speculation and discussion about this season, there's no longer any place for edgic-based analysis. At this point, it would just be revisionist history. I think what you guys were doing is fun, and interesting, but it's a little presumptuous to think that you could "outsmart" the staff at Survivor. The producers, and directors, and host and editors are all professionals, and expert storytellers. They know how to develop characters, build plotlines, and create conflict. Most of all, as storytellers, they know that a story with an obvious ending is not a very interesting story. While the Survivor team may have fallen into some patterns over the past seasons, these guys will always be a step ahead of you, and me and the other laymen. So, edgic is dead. But, on the brightside, this season got a lot more interesting. |
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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DH,
No one's looking to "outsmart" anyone. We've observed an editing pattern about the winners in the past and apply it to the current show to see if we can spot the winner before they are revealed. Sometimes, we collectively have been right, and sometimes not (though in most cases, there's at least some support for the winner). In any case, it provides a useful framework for our speculation, and we're not about to throw that away just because Marcus proved too good to be true.
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colleenlover |
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oh for crying out crap -it's a mystery and we're talking about whodunit. Edgic failed -like it's brain surgery?!
some of the people ready to pounce on it really need to get their heads examined. I think the self importance that is magnified in people's minds about this collective is just a strange nasty streak. is the Edgic crew some gang that goes around to people's houses forcing their opinion down their throats? It is merely a place where we can talk about the show and figure out the puzzle based on ayny criteria you want to bring to it -without having the answer giving based on "But HildyCat345 spoiled that Vanessa was the second juror..." I've been reading in other discussion threads about how edgic got PWNed (God, can you imagine the mentality of an adult who uses this expression?) yet talked about how stupid it was in the past when someone like Yul or Parvati won because it was obvious (well, it was obvious because that IS a form of edgic that you are using) -Do I understand that the math might be a little overdone, yeah. But to each their own -in the end it's just a sharing of ideas. because frankly, there is no way anyone can predict the game based on strategy -there's just not enough shown to us in a 43 minute show -editing is and puzzle solving is all there is. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Plus, we can use the technicality that Edgic is supposed to pick our winner by the merge, and since the merge has yet to happen, we still weren't
technically wrong >_>
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MyChemicalShowmance |
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I'm sorry... I know this is mean, but...
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Thailandsurvivor |
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Kitty Pryde1 wrote:And we can use the technicality that Edgic isn't supposed to flip out when someone says Marcus won't win. |
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