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BlakeB717 |
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I agree that it's very odd about pre-show, especially since Marcus was shown in the commercials and just him a lot. Never have they done that with a
winner.. but, right now, Marcus fits the mould. No one else really has anything in comparison; at least no one from Kota.
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Preview comments? Was that in the show? What does that mean? I think Probst called Chris a Boston Rob wannabe. Rode that to the end quite well. That has
zip to do with Edgic.
Stay focused on what the edit showed. Marcus, Charlie and Corrine with a blonde vessel who was barely shown have layered an onion. Onions eventually get peeled. They are still, as pointed out, 4 against 5. Earl as I recall was fine then suddenly "lost" Michelle and ended up in danger, for about 10 seconds. They have to recruit a fifth person, wonder if it was the right choice, find out Corrine's a bitch, etc. I.E. they have loose ends dangling that will take time to play out. That is long range. That's why you look that way and don't worry if they go quiet for a while. Plenty of time. Plenty. Michael
Last Edited By: OnlyTheHunter
09/26/08 12:12 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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Seyz |
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SFC wrote: Oh, well in that case, Marcus is our winner. |
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James Barber |
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I thought they also brought Bob in. A lot of Earl's early alliance was underplayed, his ties to Erica and Anthony. Then it was a few episodes later when he started getting closer to Yau-Man. I don't even remember seeing that much of Earl (aside from a few early episodes) until after the switch. I mentioned Jeff's comments because I think that's similar to the edit. Like the editors, Jeff knows the outcome and most of the time, he won't blast the winner pre-season. He did hate Chris because of what happened with Julie. I think Marcus could win, I'm just responding to all this about how Marcus is the obvious winner. |
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iluvbbsofun |
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With Marcus, it was all about this invisible guy and his best friend who has a crush on him, then all of a sudden he wants to go in depth with the structure of how he likes his alliances. I'm sorry, that doesn't fly. It came out of nowhere and should have happened BEFORE the stuff about his relationship with Charlie. |
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Seyz |
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James Barber wrote: That's true Marcus, is too in your face at the moment. He's probably the one person who everyone remembers partially for the commercials, and secondly for all the face time on strategy and alliance building. I'm actually hoping they pull a "Danni" at the moment. |
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I LUV TIJUANA |
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Before anyone attacks me, I'm not doing winner picks (not like there are any spoilers anyways), but I'm just going to post my ratings. I'm not sure
if y'all are going to let me post at the site or not. I'd like to, but that's for you to decide.
Episode One- Part One KOTA Ace- CPM3 Bob- MORP3 Charlie- MOR3 Corinne- MOR2 Jacquie- UTR1* Kelly- INV1 Marcus- CP3 Paloma- UTRN2 Sugar- UTR2 FANG Crystal- CP3 Dan- UTR2 GC- MOR4 Gillian- OTTM5 Ken- MORP4 Matty- MOR3 Michelle- CPN4 Randy- CPM4 Susie- UTR1 Episode One- Part Two KOTA Ace- INV1 Bob- UTR1* Charlie- CP4 Corinne- MOR2 Jacquie- MOR2 Kelly- INV1 Marcus- CP3 Paloma- INV1 Sugar- UTR1* FANG Crystal- MOR2 Dan- CP4 GC- CPM5 Gillian- MOR3 Ken- UTR2 Matty- UTR1 Randy- MOR3 Susie- MOR2 *All the people with asterisks will probably be debated as INV, but I think they all qualify as UTR. Jacquie got the tree-mail in episode one and had sufficient face-shots. Bob was shown fishing and his name was mentioned enough in episode 2, Sugar was shown a few times doing stuff at camp... of the three I'd be most unsure of Sugar in episode 2, but I still think she classifies as UTR. |
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swim4life227 |
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James, no matter how you want to look at it, Marcus is looking like a sure bet to win. You did the same thing with Todd. Everyone thought Todd was the obvious
winner (and the main argument against him was that he was too obvious) and you insisted that it was Amanda, even after the premiere. I know you don't like
Marcus, but either do I. I have accepted that he's going to win and I don't care. Debunking all the prestige edgicians claims isn't going to change
the fact that he is the likely winner. Probst was probably throwing in a red herring, there always is one every season to try to get everyone thinking a
different way. This season is no different.
I'm curious to see why Jeff hates this season, and it's becoming clear that it's cuz of Marcus winning. Probably also because it's boring as hell and straight forward like Palau. |
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James Barber |
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James, no matter how you want to look at it, Marcus is looking like a sure bet to win. You did the same thing with Todd. Everyone thought Todd was the obvious winner (and the main argument against him was that he was too obvious) and you insisted that it was Amanda, even after the premiere.I never thought Todd's edit was as horrible as many others thought. Many people in this thread and elsewhere insisted that Todd couldn't win and that Amanda would win, that the whole thing was set up for Amanda. There was also a lot of belief she would win because of a spoiler at the time, and it got to the point where seemingly everything Todd said or did was interpreted in a negative way. I eventually went along with this because the editing hid any hint of a social game for Todd and tried to make it look as if Amanda was more likable, even though to me, Amanda always had the edit of a tagalong. There was never a situation where "everyone" thought Todd would win and I was the lone voice saying Amanda would win. I think Marcus' edit is superficial, somewhat smarmy, and less about himself than the reaction other people have to him. He's also had a ton of pre-show hype because of his being an eligible bachelor. If he wins, I won't be surprised, but I don't believe his edit points to an obvious winner. I think it points to a big empty suit. |
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I0dine |
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swim4life227 wrote: He could just be getting the Fiji Alex edit. Where he is shown as the next Aras/Yul and then he actually isn't but still goes far |
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dennydoylelives |
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Eliminated after TC1 - Jacque, Kelly, Gillian, Michelle, Susie.
Eliminated after TC2 - Ace, Paloma, Sweet Sweet Sugar Winner picks after TC1 - Marcus, Bob, Crystal, TC2 - Marcus, Bob, Randy |
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OnlyTheHunter |
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One thought this AM. Saw a few comments about Paloma and yoga. Bob laughed with her. As it happens, so did I. I saw reinforced SPV from her about Ace, in
his Cleveland Browns undies. I think that said more about Ace. He is "leading the group", in yoga and other things in his mind. For now. The very
setup Charlie and Marcus envisioned.
I had most trouble evaluating Crystal. The show wants her to be big. "Olympic gold medalist" is like "rocket scientist", "NYC fireman", "Vegas showgirl", has oomph. Michael |
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Zesty66 |
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What I found interesting about Corinne was that they balanced her out. She first had a confessional saying she is mean, etc. (as well as being ready for the
game, mind you), but then followed up with being nice about Bob and even seeming sweet. So they showed us what we expected, but definitely toned it down. For
the so called "uber bitch", even a glimmer of likability would be nice from the editors....or they can't have the winner negative in episode
one.....or I am grasping at straws.
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colleenlover |
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I don't get james barber's comments at all. Are you playing Devil' Advocate, or completely dismissing Marcus? I don't see how he's a
distraction at all, unless it's from someone who studies edgic/editing and thinks it's too obvious. Impartially, Marcus was well hidden.
I get blake's and hunter's explainations though. Again, not going to overthink it- most likely--- Ken and JC are the people we root for and get semi-deep into the game; Ace leads and then overthrown; Corrine possibly makes a bold popwer move; Marcus uses the layers of the onion and wins the game. |
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OnlyTheHunter |
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I'll do ratings tonight, and I'm going to do them assuming ep 1 ends as they walk away from TC. The night scene after it is, in my mind, the beginning
of ep2.
Michael |
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James Barber |
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I don't get james barber's comments at all. Are you playing Devil' Advocate, or completely dismissing Marcus?I'm saying I don't think he's the winner just because of his edit in the first episode. A lot of people seem to think that's basically it, he's the winner. There's a good chance he could win, but I think the overselling of him, where people were supposed to believe he was not only a big strategic and physical player, but also a dreamboat, was more of a distraction than a winner arc. To me it was almost like them laying out everything as soon as they could so they can start putting focus to the other players. We get to know Charlie, Corrine, and Jacquie through him, then we will get to see them in their own right. Bob had already been shown ingratiating himself with the tribe. Paloma was basically a nonentity and then her big scene in the first two episodes is saying she doesn't care about trying to fit in with other people, because she doesn't want to look silly. There was nothing else to try to buffer this scene, which is why I think it was more of a comment on her gameplay than anything about Bob, Ace, or the others on Kota. |
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Zesty66 |
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There are too ways to look at it:
1) After 17 seasons, they know what typical winners are edited like, and want to spice it up by changing their editing patterns and surprising us. I really believe (and hope) this could be the case, and someone like Corinne or Jacquie wins. 2) After 17 seasons, what you see is what you get. Marcus wins. |
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gretchensucks |
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I've only scanned (will look at what you guys wrote specifically later) but I think it's odd that no one else feels that Corinne came off as a
strategic player in either of the episodes. Less so in the first, but certainly in the second. I would argue her complexity...second only to Marcus.
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Episode One- Part One
KOTA Ace- CPN - He actually came off as a bit of an ass, but we definitely got insight into his strategy. Bob- OTTP - He's the boy scout who everyone looks up - that's pure positive editing. Charlie- MOR - He was a narrator with lots of gushing about Marcus. Corinne- UTR - I don't remember much about her at all from the first half of the show. Jacquie- UTR - Ditto. Kelly- UTR - Who is this? Marcus- MOR - There wasn't much speaking in the first episode, but he was clearly in the picture. Paloma- UTRN - The only comment I remember is the snickering about yoga. Sugar- UTR - She was there, but not overly revealed yet. FANG Crystal- MOR - We got enough to recognize her and her skills, but no real insight. Dan- UTR - He wasn't really a focus until the second half. GC- MORM - He was definitely shown taking his break during the IC, but he stepped up at TC (sort of). Gillian- CPM - We got a lot of her point of view, and while her viewpoint was positive, we saw why she annoys. Ken- MORP - He came across as pretty naive in an endearing way, but was not infected by Michelle's negativity. Matty- UTR - He had no real focus. Michelle- OTTN - She was relentlessly negative about just about everything. Randy- CPN - He was definitely CP, but to me he was complaining a lot in the first half of the episode. Susie- UTR - She didn't do much yet. Episode One- Part Two KOTA Ace- UTR - After the first half buildup, he's irrelevant in the second half. Bob- UTRP - He got positive feedback from Jeff during the challenge and from the Onion Alliance. Charlie- MOR - He had more narration of the Onion Alliance. Corinne- MOR - She got the editing trick of nodding when Marcus said she was smart, and she gave a confessional. Jacquie- UTR - She was referenced and present during the Onion Alliance talk, but did she speak? Kelly- UTR - Who is this? Marcus- CP - He laid out in some detail his approach to the game, but there's no real tone yet. Paloma- UTR - Other than sitting out the challenge, I can't think of anything from the second half. Sugar- UTR - She's not really standing out much yet. FANG Crystal- MOR - We got her paranoia about Dan having the idol, but that's about it. No real tone. Dan- CP(P) - It is a weak CP, but he did give some insight during the search. The unjust suspicion may give him tone. GC- MORM - He gets a lot of confessionals, but they are mostly narration. Negative for rejecting the leader role and being stupid about the water, but some positive in gushing about how the team came together. Gillian- MOR - She's not really negative, but it was pretty clear why she had to go, and the audience agrees. Ken- UTR - He's certainly not invisible as a target and the person Crystal approaches about the vote, but he does little himself. Matty- MOR - He's much more involved in the boot discussions this time around, but he's not a focus. Randy- CP - There's no tone this time, but we definitely see a lot of the tribe through his eyes. Susie- MOR - She had a nice discussion with Gillian, but that was about it. The Fang tribe got better editing in the second half as they seemed to turn things around, and Charlie's comment that the Kota tribe might never lose seemed likely to precede a fall. Does the Fang tribe contain a winner? They've certainly received the bulk of attention, but that isn't uncommon for the tribe that attends TC. The Kota tribe is easier to read as only a few players have been singled out for significant edits thus far. Too little visibility - Jacquie, Kelly, Paloma, Sugar, and Susie. Others have had weak part of the episode, but the other has compensated to some degree. Too OTT - Bob. He could still turn it around I suppose, but generally an OTTP player gets voted out to the dismay of the audience. Too much visibility - Charlie and Randy. After Todd's win in China, I recognize they could get some needed cooldown later, but as of right now, we're seeing far too much of them. Dark horses - Corinne and Matty. Both are present, but off center so far. They'll need considerably more development to establish an Edgic profile. Flawed contenders - Ace, Dan and GC. Ace got a huge edit in the first part to go under the radar in the second. Dan did the opposite. I'm not ready to get rid of either as contenders yet, but a less extreme variance would have been better. As for GC, his flaws as a player are too obvious in my opinion with his quickness to take offense, but the Edgic profile isn't bad yet. Best bets - Marcus, Crystal, Ken - in that order. Marcus benefits from being a focus on a tribe that didn't go to TC without being the most visible member of that tribe (Charlie). He's not a lock by any means at this point though. Crystal has been present without hogging the camera in both parts of the episode - that said, I think she's the Gary Hogeboom of this season (a draw for the audience) more than the likely winner. I find Ken's edit interesting. He's portrayed as an underdog, who then naively tries to befriend the camp sourpuss, who is voted out. That's not a bad first episode. He's low key in the second episode, but he is clearly involved, and that's not bad positioning for a winner at all. |
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Warrior |
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