Why or why not?
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Venatrix Avia |
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Just out of curiosity, would people be feeling the same way if Craig were a frail, older woman?
Why or why not? |
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cyclehausen |
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No, because an older woman would likely be wise and unlikely to mess up mental challenges.
Craig is worthlessly physically fat AND a moron with the emotional health of a Downs Syndrome'd 7-year-old. |
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hotchiemothcie |
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Venatrix Avia wrote: Yes. It's a cheat to use someone with extraordinary physical or mental disadvantages, because it blurs the line between sabotage and happenstance. That being said, I'm not as opposed to the idea of Craig as I used to be. Mark has become a possibility 100 times worse than Craig. Craig at least loses money for the group.Craig as the mole would annoy me. Mark as the mole would make me cheer for cancellation. |
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colleenlover |
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No, I just have a problem with the way it's being shown to us the viewers. That is, if he is the Mole. The past few episodes it's been hitting us
over the head that he's the Mole. My complaint if that's the case, that like in a good murder mystery, we don't want the author to tell us
whodunit before the ending.
And maybe that's just a case of being stuck with certain footage- ie. Nicole and Paul upset and nervous about the last execution, Mark adding so much money into the pot. If Craig is the Mole, then the season was much more about the Paul/Nicole rivilary than the Mole mindgame from a story point of view. |
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TAR Addict |
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Well maybe they have really good editors. Dont always assume. A lot of people were sure ron and chris had TAR12 in the bag...
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colleenlover |
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I don't understand. I said IF Craig is the mole, then I'm disappointed in the editing. I'm not assuming he's the Mole. I still think it might be Mark. I never assume. |
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WylDawg |
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In retrospect, I guess he did do a good job of not getting suspected since a lot of people this season were on the wrong track.
But like posters here have said, the only reason why he duped so many people, including us is that he constantly used the jolly fat guy who's just being himself and you have to forgive him for his physical limitations card. That is pretty lame. I prefer my moles to be sneaky, conniving and ruthless. Kathyn was pretty good at playing it two-faced, but a lot of people were on to her early, so I guess it's impossible to have a mole who succesfully dupes people and pro-actively sabotages missions. |
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TAR Addict |
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WylDawg wrote: OZ Mole 3. Only person who know who it was won. Even second place thought the winner was the mole. OZ mole=Best. Mole. Evah.
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hotchiemothcie |
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TAR Addict wrote: The first seasons of Australia and UK both had the loser thinking the winner was the mole. In Australia, it was because the winner was incredibly savvy and got everyone suspecting her. In UK, the mole was just really, really good. In fact, I
think the first UK mole was just as good as, if not better than, the mole on season 3 in Australia.
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Latuki Joe.losttheunoffica... |
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I agree with hotchie.
I never for a moment suspected the Mole in UK1, but sure enough, they did a ton of sabotage and whatnot. I was pretty sure of who the mole was in AUS3 about halfway through, though it was a really fun season with EXCELLENT challenges and a fun cast. Aus Mole 1 is ghetto, but it is a good example of how to play the game when you AREN'T the mole. The winner was brilliant. |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 4213 (08/03/08 9:07 PM) Registered user |
louie77 wrote: Do you think Bill was a bad Mole from an entertainment or espionage standpoint? I thought he was entertaining, and while I luckily guessed he was the Mole early on, he did fool the majority of the cast |
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colleenlover |
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I have no problem with it being Craig in the reality of the show -I originally said it was him in the first episode when I thought that would be fun. No, my
problem is if it's him, then the editing has been so blatant -unless the average person falls for that "good vs. evil" bullshit and is shocked by
that.
And if he's the Mole, then Mark wins with that telegraphed from the moon doing-it-for-his-family story. That's why I'm hoping for the mindfuck of Mark is the Mole and Nicole wins it all. |
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ColonelBird |
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Craig has just really petered out in past few episodes. He barely has any energy, he's not fun. He's not good tv right now, and that's especially
awful if he's the mole. He's boring, bland...and really fat.
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Screerider |
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colleenlover wrote:Except his physical limitations have never been the base of any of the sabotages from him. |
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Venatrix Avia |
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Thank you all for your answers. Just for the record, I wasn't attempting a "gotcha" by asking the question. I was genuinely curious, because
while I, too, feel vaguely unsatisfied by Craig as the Mole, I'm not sure if I like the idea that a proper Mole must always be a physically fit specimen.
It seems to make it too easy, doesn't it, if one can always rule out the weak?
(As for older women being "wise," though... Heh. Did you ever see the first Australian season? Beverly, the older woman in that season, was just as terrible at the mental challenges as she was at the physical challenges. She was almost comically useless.) Part of the problem, I think, is that this season has been so overwhelmingly physical in the challenges that a physically weak Mole really needed to do very little to harm the group. Just part of the overall "dumbing down" that this season seemed to represent, I guess. I really missed the strategic, intellectual, and interpersonal challenges of seasons past. All the same, (assuming that Craig is the Mole) perhaps if he'd allowed himself to shine during the rare mental challenge, he wouldn't seem quite so unsatisfying a choice? I really don't know. I agree with colleenlover that if Craig is the Mole, then the editing is hardly going out of its way to hide it. Then, I felt very much the same way about the first two US seasons -- which similarly came down to endgames with players who all knew perfectly well who the Mole was -- and I loved both of those seasons anyway. Really, although I understand the arguments about Craig being an unsatisfying Mole, I can't see Nicole or Mark as any more satisfying. If Mark is the Mole, then he's got to be the Worst Mole Ever, given how much money he's been responsible for adding to the pot. The Mole isn't only supposed to elude suspicion, but also to sabotage the challenges. A Mole who only did the former would sort of suck. And as for Nicole...meh, I don't know. I love the woman, but a Mole playing the role of a player all-too-obviously playing the role of the Mole also seems vaguely unsatisfying from an audience perspective. Sure, I guess you could view it as a neat double-bluff, but it doesn't really work very well dramatically. Not for me, anyway. Personally, my ideal outcome for this rather disappointing season would be for Craig to be revealed as both the Mole and as a secretly strong athlete. (Yes, Virginia, fat people can be decent athletes.) That would totally rock. I'm not really holding my breath for that to happen, though. |
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Screerider |
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I can imagine Liz making it this far and having trouble on the beam.
I can imagine Victoria making it this far and having trouble on the beam. I can imagine Bobby O making it this far and having trouble on the beam. |
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colleenlover |
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yeah, again I have NO problem with Craig being the Mole in the reality of the game they played. I even said he was my top suspect after the first episode -I
thought Nicole was cannon fodder for the first few episodes, and Paul, Mark and BOBBY were the endgamers.
And I never have a problem with the endgamers all knowing who the Mole is -ala Kathryn and Bill. My problem is with the "story" if Craig turns out to be the Mole. I want my TV like a mystery novel -I want to figure out the mystery and not have it told to me. With Craig, I feel the story has basically told us he's the Mole and that Mark wins it. Now with a good mystery, Mark being the killer would have been fun -the hiccup is the reality that he sucked at sabotaging things monetary-wise. And Nicole being the abrassive one and not having strong support or allies, winning it resorting to her cunning. That's a good story to me. That's my only beef if it comes down to the telegraphed Mark wins/Craig was the Mole/Nicole merely outlasted Paul storyline. |
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Screerider |
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"BILL IS THE MOLE" kinda killed the story in Season 2 in Episode 4. That's the level of "writing" we're dealing with here.
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louie77 |
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Do you think Bill was a bad Mole from an entertainment or espionage standpoint? I thought he was entertaining, and while I luckily guessed he was the Mole early on, he did fool the majority of the castHe wasn't bad from a entertainment standpoint, but he was by far the most obvious of the 4 moles we have had. Until Craig... |
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colleenlover |
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Screerider wrote: True dat. But at least that was a "hidden" clue -like in any mystery novel. And it was up to the reader to find it. (I know, I know). But to me, it's different if the characters speak of the murderer and it's not misdirection. Hercule Peroit doesn't say Smith is the murderer half way through the book, and then the end has Smith as the murderer. |
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