5/15/08 Ep12 "There's No Place Like Home, Part 1"

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GodIsAnAtheist		#201	[-]
Posts: 3705 (05/23/08 8:31 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't think reading that spoiler stuff would ruin anybody's day. It really doesn't have anything to do with any important questions about the show. IMO, it could be discussed openly.
pussycow		#202	[-]
Posts: 2261 (05/23/08 9:05 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	WiscBadger95 wrote: Just rewatched it, and I caught something I missed before. According to the cover story, more than eight people got off the plane. Only eight made it to the island. Here's what Jack said at the press conference -- note the very last line: MALE REPORTER #1: Dr. Shephard! Dr. Shephard! Can you tell us what it was like when the plane hit the ocean? Uh, how you survived. (Camera shutters snapping) JACK: Um... (shutters continue snapping) JACK: It--it all happened really fast. I remember the impact. I remember the--the plane filling up with water. A group of us got to the emergency door, and, um... got out before it went down. MALE REPORTER #1: And those of you who survived--you swam to the island? JACK: No. We had, uh, cushions. We had some life jackets. We were in the water for over a day before the current took us in. By then, there was only eight of us left. Forgive me for being dim, but I don't really get the point. I must be missing or misreading something. Are you saying that jack's recounting doesn't match the "cover story"? "more than 8 people made it off the plane but only 8 made it to the island" is pretty much what he said. I am reading what he said as more than 8 made it off the plane, but some died the day they were in the water before they got to the island. And only 8 were left at that point
Fluffynurse		#203	[-]
Posts: 13620 (05/23/08 9:08 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	That's what I thought too pussy. I'm glad it's not just me.
QualityBobby		#204	[-]
Posts: 4427 (05/23/08 10:15 AM) O.o Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Fluffynurse wrote: That's what I thought too pussy. For some reason that makes me LOL!
WiscBadger95		#205	[-]
Posts: 11314 (05/23/08 12:35 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	pussycow wrote: WiscBadger95 wrote: Just rewatched it, and I caught something I missed before. According to the cover story, more than eight people got off the plane. Only eight made it to the island. Here's what Jack said at the press conference -- note the very last line: MALE REPORTER #1: Dr. Shephard! Dr. Shephard! Can you tell us what it was like when the plane hit the ocean? Uh, how you survived. (Camera shutters snapping) JACK: Um... (shutters continue snapping) JACK: It--it all happened really fast. I remember the impact. I remember the--the plane filling up with water. A group of us got to the emergency door, and, um... got out before it went down. MALE REPORTER #1: And those of you who survived--you swam to the island? JACK: No. We had, uh, cushions. We had some life jackets. We were in the water for over a day before the current took us in. By then, there was only eight of us left. Forgive me for being dim, but I don't really get the point. I must be missing or misreading something. Are you saying that jack's recounting doesn't match the "cover story"? "more than 8 people made it off the plane but only 8 made it to the island" is pretty much what he said. I am reading what he said as more than 8 made it off the plane, but some died the day they were in the water before they got to the island. And only 8 were left at that point First off, the original story about the faked crash was that all the bodies were on the wreckage of the plane, thus everyone was accounted for. Then you take eight of those bodies off the plane, and it calls the crash story into question. But you can explain that away by saying that the salvage crew made a mistake because they were working with remote operated cameras at a great depth. Now you take even more bodies off the plane and the "crash story" becomes even more questionable. Here's something else to throw out there: 8 people made it onto the island, and 6 got off the island. However ... Aaron had not yet been "born" when Kate set foot on that island ... yet he is counted as one of the Oceanic 6. That means 3 people had to have "died" on that island, not 2 as Jack testified at Kate's trial. See? There are cracks in the cover story the O6 is telling. And eventually, someone is going to start picking at those cracks.
Cheyenie		#206	[-]
Posts: 449 (05/23/08 1:55 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Well if someone is investigating you would think they would be on to something by the time Jack is desperate to get back to the island. Jack's weekly flights should be suspect too. I would be surprised if the writers do much with this unless Jack works with a reporter to find a way back to the island.
pussycow		#207	[-]
Posts: 2262 (05/23/08 4:37 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	WiscBadger95 wrote: First off, the original story about the faked crash was that all the bodies were on the wreckage of the plane, thus everyone was accounted for. Then you take eight of those bodies off the plane, and it calls the crash story into question. But you can explain that away by saying that the salvage crew made a mistake because they were working with remote operated cameras at a great depth. Now you take even more bodies off the plane and the "crash story" becomes even more questionable. This seems to me that you are changing your point. You said: "According to the cover story, more than eight people got off the plane. Only eight made it to the island. Here's what Jack said at the press conference -- note the very last line: " and what Jack said was: "No. We had, uh, cushions. We had some life jackets. We were in the water for over a day before the current took us in. By then, there was only eight of us left. " To me, Jack's statements jibe with the "cover story" you described WiscBadger95 wrote: Here's something else to throw out there: 8 people made it onto the island, and 6 got off the island. However ... Aaron had not yet been "born" when Kate set foot on that island ... yet he is counted as one of the Oceanic 6. That means 3 people had to have "died" on that island, not 2 as Jack testified at Kate's trial. This I agree with There are most certainly cracks in the story. And I don't think there is any way it is going to hold up under much scrutiny. I suspect a little bit of next season will be the story falling apart, especially since Jack and Hurley have said they are sick of lying at one point or another.
WiscBadger95		#208	[-]
Posts: 11317 (05/23/08 5:28 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	pussycow wrote: WiscBadger95 wrote: First off, the original story about the faked crash was that all the bodies were on the wreckage of the plane, thus everyone was accounted for. Then you take eight of those bodies off the plane, and it calls the crash story into question. But you can explain that away by saying that the salvage crew made a mistake because they were working with remote operated cameras at a great depth. Now you take even more bodies off the plane and the "crash story" becomes even more questionable. This seems to me that you are changing your point. You said: "According to the cover story, more than eight people got off the plane. Only eight made it to the island. Here's what Jack said at the press conference -- note the very last line: " and what Jack said was: "No. We had, uh, cushions. We had some life jackets. We were in the water for over a day before the current took us in. By then, there was only eight of us left. " To me, Jack's statements jibe with the "cover story" you described Huh? I'm sorry, but I'm really confused what you're trying to say. How is the first statement of mine you quote "changing my point" about the second statement of mine you quote? What my first statement does it explain why so many people getting off the plane before it sank is problematic, and how it could lead to questions about the faked crash being just that, faked.
pussycow		#209	[-]
Posts: 2263 (05/23/08 7:01 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Your original point seemed to be that there was a discrepancy between the "cover story" and Jack's account of the cover story. Your "new" point is that more than 8 people getting off the plane leads to cracks in the cover story. Your new point is valid, I just think it is different than your original point, which was the one I was trying to figure out. That being said, at this point we have no idea what "more than 8 people" is. It could be 15, which on a flight of 324 is still a small amount. I'm not trying to be a hardass on you, man. I'm just saying that if your original point was that there was a discrepancy between the cover story and Jack's account of it, I disagree
Fluffynurse		#210	[-]
Posts: 13623 (05/23/08 9:11 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	There are other WTF things at the press conference to cause people to question stories. Aaron being only 5 weeks old is one. Hurley still being huge is one. And Sun's parents learning that Sun speaks English is another. That could be just enough to cause Paik to investigate further.
PoChop		#211	[-]
Posts: 1547 (05/24/08 2:34 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	WiscBadger95 wrote: I wonder if they aren't putting little cracks in the O6's cover story -- this, Aaron obviously being more than 5 weeks old, Sun giving birth to her husband's child 10 months after he died -- to have some outsider character figure out something's rotten in Denmark. For what reason I'm not sure, however. Is there even an island within 1 day's drifting distance from the trench where the plane crash was planted? I can't imagine an island being that close to a deep trench. How far could currents carry you in one day? From general info on the web the faster currents in oceans are on the order of: The Gulf Stream, and the Kuroshio Currents (near Japan) flow with speed up to 0.4 to 1.2 m/s.1.2 meters/second is pretty quick and over 24 hours could carry you about 103 kilometers. But that's for optimal conditions in the Gulf Stream and in the equitorial Pacific near Indonesia/Australia I doubt the currents would be that fast. Anyway, I guess the point is that maybe this will be one of those cracks in the story. I'll need to to more research on currents in the vicinity of the crash site. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, here's a better map of planted plane crash and the island the Survivors supposedly drifted to as best I could deduce from the Oceanic news conference map. The bottom line is that the ocean currents in the real world are in the wrong direction for our heroes to have drifted to that imaginary island. I wonder if that's an intentional error introduced by the writers. Probably not. Having Membata further to the west or the crash site further to the east would have made more sense. Last Edited By: PoChop 05/24/08 5:02 PM. Edited 4 times.
bxwl9		#212	[-]
Posts: 590 (05/26/08 8:28 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Fluffynurse wrote: There are other WTF things at the press conference to cause people to question stories. Aaron being only 5 weeks old is one. Hurley still being huge is one. And Sun's parents learning that Sun speaks English is another. That could be just enough to cause Paik to investigate further. Nice catch. Sun speaking English, parents unsuspecting... would have liked a reaction to that.
CC1018		#213	[-]
Posts: 1090 (05/26/08 10:06 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Antithesys wrote: Timeline notes: -- Aaron's age is given as five weeks at the press conference, assumed to be a few days after rescue, so the second or third week of January 2005. This means the O6 is claiming Aaron was born in early December, a good five or six weeks after his actual birth date of 1 November. Besides the obvious issues about Aaron: born full-term versus preemie; actual birth 1month prior to cover story... I still find it outlandish that Jack sat there with a straight face & played of that Kate basically saved everyone after they made it to the island - I know the 2nd trimester is when you feel your best, but golly, that girl's good!
PoChop		#214	[-]
Posts: 1554 (05/26/08 3:26 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm guessing that if the remote rover saw that the plane was completely in one piece, and if they saw people's bodies through the windows, that it would be perfectly logical to assume that the plane went down with all the passengers. There would be no way to extract the bodies easily with existing technology. On the other hand if it was found in pieces underwater, uh, let's say a tail section here and the main fuselage somewhere else it would have been possible for some people to escape the crash and maybe float somewhere. But if the entire plane was found in one piece then the underwater rover would need to actually see one of the escape doors opened to match Jack's story at the news conference. It turns out that planes are really good at floating for a while if the skin is not compromised. So the big question is how did Widmore's people actually sink the fake plane? Does the data from the underwater rover match Jack's comment about opening an emergency door? Is it called an emergency door or an emergency hatch?
WiscBadger95		#215	[-]
Posts: 11318 (05/27/08 9:49 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Pussycow, looking back at my first post on the topic, I can see now that I wasn't clear about Jack's various accountings being just one of the "cracks" in the cover story. Incidentally, here are the cracks that I've seen so far ... A bunch of people got off the plane, yet those who discovered the fake wreckage reported that everyone was still on the plane. Sun gave birth to Jin's child ten months after he died. Kate has a five week old son who is clearly more than five weeks old. Jack said two survivors died on the island, and then had to change it to three when pressed on it (Aaron had not yet been "born" when the survivors made it ashore). Later, however when testifying at Kate's trial, he reverts back to two dying on the island. A very overweight Hurley lost no weight after being stranded on a desert island for 3-1/2 months. PoChop, that's interesting. So they would actually have drifted away from Membata island from the crash site? There's another crack. Incidentally, it's been mentioned before, but we've never really delved into it, but the reported crash site is very close to the epicenter of the suboceanic earthquake that caused the December 26, 2004, tsunami. Here's a screencap (of sorts) of the faked wreckage. It's broken into three pieces, but they're all together. Take special note that it's broken up pretty much exactly as the real 815 broke up when it crashed. Last Edited By: WiscBadger95 05/27/08 10:03 PM. Edited 1 times.
PoChop		#216	[-]
Posts: 1567 (05/27/08 10:11 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hmmm, if the plane broke upon crashing into the water then a lot of prople could have gotten out, unless the ones near the breaks in the fuselage died immediately. I guess we'll need to wait to see if they add yet another story arc related to this to the show. I don't really see how any revelations like this would actually affect the LOST story. Unless a reporter or someone else uses this information to help the Losties get back to the island this sort of thing seems to only support the off season web thingees which are generally non-canon information. Time will tell!
IFY0USEEKATE		#217	[-]
Posts: 598 (05/29/08 6:33 PM) Lost soul Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Just rewatching. I wonder how they decided to name Boone, Libby, and Charlie as the other survivors who then died.
anquet		#218	[-]
Posts: 2 (05/29/08 7:29 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I was also just rewatching and noticed Jack talking about Boone, Libby, and Charlie at the press conference. I thought I really hadn't been paying attention last week, but I checked my DVR and it was indeed different. I usually don't catch the repeat episode, do they usually add information like this? I too wondered why they picked those 3 people.
stacy1201		#219	[-]
Posts: 205 (05/30/08 7:00 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	IFY0USEEKATE wrote: Just rewatching. I wonder how they decided to name Boone, Libby, and Charlie as the other survivors who then died. I was wondering this too...Why go to the trouble of adding specifically these 3 to the lie? He did say Boone had major injuries and Charlie drown, so he told the truth there, but why did that have to be worked into the story? And why not mention Shannon, Ana Lucia, Arzt, Sceve, Pikki, etc?
PoChop		#220	[-]
Posts: 1581 (05/30/08 11:34 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hurley also mentioned they had to travel 3,000 miles to get to Membata island. I guess I need to make a map with a 3,000 mile radius circle to see where the main island may have been. But where is it now? That is the question!

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5/15/08 Ep12 "There's No Place Like Home, Part 1"

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