Immunity Idols in Micronesia

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chapera rocks		#41	[-]
Posts: 8682 (04/02/08 5:49 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	You never know, they may allow it, especially since they allowed Adam to wipe his ass with Jonathan's shirt. <_<
LES2002		#42	[-]
Posts: 872 (04/02/08 6:12 AM) I need a hobby Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	"Legally, stealing is depriving someone of their property and use of it, so if they don't allow 'stealing', I can't see how they would allow taking an idol from someone's possession and hiding it." But if Ozzy hides the HII out in the woods and Cirie (who doesn't seem to know that Ozzy has it) finds it, what happens then? Can she keep it? She didn't steal it nor does she know who to give the idol to.
birdlady		#43	[-]
Posts: 1069 (04/02/08 7:16 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	In at least some past seasons, there have been written rules with the idol that included a procedure for trasnferring its owndership (in front of crew people). There must be something about even moving it (does that count as stealing?), since, for example, in China we saw Peih Gee find James' idols, unattended in the common shelter, not with his personal belongings, but leave them. Which doesn't mean any of that is true this season. Although I think the worst that could happen as to the idol's location would be for Ozzy to leave it in the cave, then find out at the challenge that they were merging to the other camp.
Jacare15		#44	[-]
Posts: 943 (04/02/08 9:35 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite
Krossedge		#45	[-]
Posts: 12 (04/02/08 3:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sorry to correct you birdlady, but it was Jaime who found James' two HII at the Zhan Hu camp during China, and they were with his personal belongings (wrapped up in his pants). P.G, never even knew there was a HII at that time. And, I think that Ozzy would be smart enough to realise that the tribes usually merge at 10, so I can't see him leaving the idol behind at camp.
birdlady		#46	[-]
Posts: 1070 (04/02/08 3:10 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	No, after the merge, Peih-Gee and Erik were laying around the shelter, when she saw them where James had tucked them into the thatching.
kenc333		#47	[-]
Posts: 1156 (04/02/08 4:01 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yea, the show edited it to show that Peih-Gee found James' idols in the ceiling of the shelter, but in post-game interviews, I think it was James who said that those were Jean-Robert's plaques that he took, and he hid them in the ceiling.
tvfunspotter		#48	[-]
Posts: 6 (04/03/08 4:14 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	LES2002 wrote: "Legally, stealing is depriving someone of their property and use of it, so if they don't allow 'stealing', I can't see how they would allow taking an idol from someone's possession and hiding it." But if Ozzy hides the HII out in the woods and Cirie (who doesn't seem to know that Ozzy has it) finds it, what happens then? Can she keep it? She didn't steal it nor does she know who to give the idol to. Well from a legal standpoint, keeping in mind Survivor does not have to abide by any of this, if you don't have the intent to deprive someone of their property, you are not stealing. If Cirie finds it by some fluke and has no clue to whom it belongs she wouldn't have the intent necessary. I don't see this happening, but I guess anything is possible. The other hitch is that Cirie would have knowledge that the idol belongs to someone because it's location is Exile, not her camp. Additionally she and Ozzy are the only remaining Exile visitors in that camp, so it could be argued that once she finds it she knows that it is Ozzy's, thus taking it could in fact constitute stealing. In my opinion - finding the idol in this circumstance is the same as Mookie and the gang finding Yau's idol or Jaime and company stumbling upon James' idols. They know to whom it belongs and it ain't them, so taking it is stealing. Also you could argue possession and that's legally defined as 'dominion and control' over something...so hiding it in a spot in common area, meh it could be argued either way. I think the legal team with Survivor probably went through this entire scenario and has ruled out allowing someone to find and keep an idol secreted by another contestant due to the possible legal mess it would cause.
MidnightPrince69		#49	[-]
Posts: 21915 (04/03/08 7:50 AM) MadStudNYC Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	One of the above scenarios occurs.
LES2002		#50	[-]
Posts: 873 (04/03/08 8:19 AM) I need a hobby Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	"In my opinion - finding the idol in this circumstance is the same as Mookie and the gang finding Yau's idol or Jaime and company stumbling upon James' idols. They know to whom it belongs and it ain't them, so taking it is stealing. Also you could argue possession and that's legally defined as 'dominion and control' over something...so hiding it in a spot in common area, meh it could be argued either way. I think the legal team with Survivor probably went through this entire scenario and has ruled out allowing someone to find and keep an idol secreted by another contestant due to the possible legal mess it would cause. " Okay, but my original premise went awry because I used what is going on this year at this stage of the game. Say, someone first finds the hidden immunity idol. They go back to camp and proceed to hide the HII away from their possessions, so that noone will go through their stuff and let the secret out. Now, another person finds the re-hidden idol (days later, after other people have gone to Exile island). What happens then? The person who finds the re-hidden idol knows that it's not theirs but whose is it? Do they bring it to Jeff? Do they keep it themselves? Do they make an announcement to everybody and then who would claim it? Yes it's easy to explain what would happen this year - Cirie knows that it's not hers so it would have to be Ozzy's.
LKMOSCAR		#51	[-]
Posts: 1821 (04/03/08 12:47 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	LES2002 wrote: Cirie knows that it's not hers so it would have to be Ozzy's. Or Ami's.
survivorready		#52	[-]
Posts: 101 (04/03/08 2:15 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	This is the worst rule ever in Survivor. So if a castaway finds a coconut on the island, does it mean that nobody else can drink it without permission? I do believe that the castaways shouldn't steal things from each other that they brought from the outside world (like clothing, shoes, spectacles, etc...). That is their personal property. But they SHOULD be able to steal the HII. The HII is something the castaways find after the game starts. It cannot be considered personal property because it is something the castaways find on the island. All I am saying is that the HII just gives too much of an advantage to the person who finds it. Finding the HII all depends on when and who gets to go to EI. It really has nothing strategic to do from your part. In the last four seasons, the people who found it have all gone to the final four (Amanda and Todd didn't have possession of the HII, but they did find it). All I am saying is that allowing people to steal the HII just levels the playing field for everyone involved.
GrenadeJumper85		#53	[-]
Posts: 3980 (04/03/08 2:19 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	All I am saying is that the HII just gives too much of an advantage to the person who finds it. Uhmmm, sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the point of the HII. To give an advantage to player(s) lucky enough to find it.
tvfunspotter		#54	[-]
Posts: 8 (04/03/08 2:23 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	LES2002 wrote: "In my opinion - finding the idol in this circumstance is the same as Mookie and the gang finding Yau's idol or Jaime and company stumbling upon James' idols. They know to whom it belongs and it ain't them, so taking it is stealing. Also you could argue possession and that's legally defined as 'dominion and control' over something...so hiding it in a spot in common area, meh it could be argued either way. I think the legal team with Survivor probably went through this entire scenario and has ruled out allowing someone to find and keep an idol secreted by another contestant due to the possible legal mess it would cause. " Okay, but my original premise went awry because I used what is going on this year at this stage of the game. Say, someone first finds the hidden immunity idol. They go back to camp and proceed to hide the HII away from their possessions, so that noone will go through their stuff and let the secret out. Now, another person finds the re-hidden idol (days later, after other people have gone to Exile island). What happens then? The person who finds the re-hidden idol knows that it's not theirs but whose is it? Do they bring it to Jeff? Do they keep it themselves? Do they make an announcement to everybody and then who would claim it? Yes it's easy to explain what would happen this year - Cirie knows that it's not hers so it would have to be Ozzy's. I under your premise...thing is only Burnett & co have that answer. It would be like finding something someone hid in a common place...you can't be in trouble for picking it up and keeping it because you don't have the intent to deprive someone of it, because you don't know who that someone is. If something like this does happen, they're going to call the legal team in immediately. I don't know this to be a fact, but I always said when Yau proposed the car deal with Dreamz, I'm sure they stopped filming and called in legal to work out the exact terms of that deal. I think this would be the same type of scenario. I honestly don't know what 'crimes' are not allowed on Survivor other than stealing the HII or assaulting someone, so without that info on the specifics of the laws I couldn't tell you exactly what anyone would do in this situation. Seems they allow somethings - rifling through ones belongings and whatnot, see Jerri, Mookie, Jaime....but they have never allowed contestants to steal something from someone elses possession, except with Rupert and the shoes, as far as I can remember. I guess they've also allowed destruction of others property too...as someone noted Adam using Jonathan's shirt to wipe his ass or w/e - never heard that one LOL All that said - I think that it's highly unlikely that someone finds Ozzy's hidden idol and is able to keep it or re-hide it. Stranger things have happened, but I think it's very improbable myself. I think that he probably gives it to Amanda to protect her and he gets booted. I also think that Amanda doesn't know that the girls are planning that myself...I can't see Ozzy dating her now if it happened that way. I love Ozzy (don't hate me), but he doesn't strike me as the most understanding in this kind of thing.
survivorready		#55	[-]
Posts: 103 (04/03/08 2:24 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	GrenadeJumper85 wrote: All I am saying is that the HII just gives too much of an advantage to the person who finds it. Uhmmm, sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the point of the HII. To give an advantage to player(s) lucky enough to find it. I know that is the point. But I said it gives "too much" of an advantage.
LKMOSCAR		#56	[-]
Posts: 1824 (04/03/08 2:28 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	survivorready wrote: GrenadeJumper85 wrote: All I am saying is that the HII just gives too much of an advantage to the person who finds it. Uhmmm, sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the point of the HII. To give an advantage to player(s) lucky enough to find it. I know that is the point. But I said it gives "too much" of an advantage.
tvfunspotter		#57	[-]
Posts: 9 (04/03/08 2:31 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	survivorready wrote: This is the worst rule ever in Survivor. So if a castaway finds a coconut on the island, does it mean that nobody else can drink it without permission? I do believe that the castaways shouldn't steal things from each other that they brought from the outside world (like clothing, shoes, spectacles, etc...). That is their personal property. But they SHOULD be able to steal the HII. The HII is something the castaways find after the game starts. It cannot be considered personal property because it is something the castaways find on the island. All I am saying is that the HII just gives too much of an advantage to the person who finds it. Finding the HII all depends on when and who gets to go to EI. It really has nothing strategic to do from your part. In the last four seasons, the people who found it have all gone to the final four (Amanda and Todd didn't have possession of the HII, but they did find it). All I am saying is that allowing people to steal the HII just levels the playing field for everyone involved. I understand what you're saying here and it would seem that if other things can be stolen and have been stolen - it makes sense for the idol to be up for grabs too...consider this though: Someone is desperate for the idol, they attack the true holder...it would be irresponsible of the producers to allow such a powerful item to become the subject of thievery because all the possible things that could ensue. If you are going to allow stealing of it...to what lengths can someone go to obtain it? Would they be allowed to wrestle someone down and just take it? Would they only be allowed take it when someone's not looking? Could it be pick-pocketed? There are just so many ways that you could steal the thing and the fact that it does have such power makes it like opening a can of worms if you allow stealing. You'd have to set up a whole set of rules on what 'legal' stealing of it would be.
Krossedge		#58	[-]
Posts: 13 (04/03/08 5:01 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Well I do agree that the HII does allow a huge advantage to the player(s), it also comes with it's share of disadvantages. For example, when people find out that you have the idol, it puts a huge target on your back each and every TC. That's why I believe it is fair that it cannot be stolen. Because when you find the HII, if you choose to tell people of this you put alot of trust into people, and that can come back to bite you in the ass.
survivorready		#59	[-]
Posts: 105 (04/03/08 7:44 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I completely disagree. A person can take the idol from u anyway they want, but they cannot physically harm you. That has been a rule on Survivor for a long time. So they can look in your bag and steal it. But they cannot tackle you to the ground and take it.
tvfunspotter		#60	[-]
Posts: 10 (04/04/08 3:02 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	survivorready wrote: I completely disagree. A person can take the idol from u anyway they want, but they cannot physically harm you. That has been a rule on Survivor for a long time. So they can look in your bag and steal it. But they cannot tackle you to the ground and take it. Yes, but what if the bag is 5 feet from the person it belongs to - can they steal it while the owner watches? Would you allow one person to hold someone back while someone got into the bag? It would become a hot potato - who can lay hands on it next...I know you can't physically harm others, I was just using that possibility of things getting physical as an outcome of allowing it to be stolen. Would holding someone back or throwing something in their way to prevent them from getting to their bag before someone else be considered physical harm? Could you take it from someone's bag that was next to them while they were sleeping? How far would the bag have to be from the person to allow you to steal it? It would be a race around camp to see who could put their hands on it. It's just not practical. Whatever the case...I am SO happy Eliza is not a complete dumb-ass like Jason. Last Edited By: tvfunspotter 04/04/08 3:06 AM. Edited 1 times.

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Immunity Idols in Micronesia

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