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 OnlyTheHunter |
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Posts: 1538 (05/12/08 8:43 PM) Edgician |
I was too nice to go out and say bogus, but Oo is right, I did feel that way. Alexis had a substance issue, but winners have pre-merge. She was viable, but
Parvati always was too. I had hinkies about returning player seasons, that certainly was on other minds also. But so many fans were Edgically DOA sooooo
quickly weren't they?
Michael |
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Trixiego |
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Posts: 14452 (05/13/08 5:54 PM) Kiss me, I'm Adminish |
A note of clarification Oow. Alexis was not just spoiled to make family visit. She was spoiled in late January by SFever and TDT "mid-jury to late
game" "mid jury or better" respectively.
This was at the end of January; I didn't bother reading after that but she was certainly bumped up in the stats after late January. Considering at that time the list read with Alexis, Amanda, Parvati as "mid jury to late game" and Natalie as "late game?" AND most of the fans were listed as earlier boots, I don't think it took a rocket scientist to figure out that Alexis had legs in this game. This is NOT to say that people who chose Alexis early on in Edgic were spoiled - out of all the fans, she had one of the better edits in terms of not being shown as a "type" or not shown at all but I don't think it is fair to say also that spoilers did NOT entirely influence it either. |
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Trixiego |
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Posts: 14460 (05/13/08 5:56 PM) Kiss me, I'm Adminish |
Oowatanite wrote: No I agree with that, Alexis had a very decent showing (the rest of the fans were either shown as moronic, assholes, invisible, in over their head, etc.) so it stands to reason that Alexis could do well regardless. Bottom line this season was going to go one of two ways, the favorites were going to show the fans they have no idea what they are getting into or the fans would show the favorites you ain't as special as you think you are. I think they accurately showed the fans ultimately were in over their heads this season heh |
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 Oowatanite |
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Posts: 5222 (05/13/08 7:07 PM) Registered User |
Thanks for the clarification. Trix. I just remembered the Natalie spoiler where "her friend wins the family RC and takes Nat as well" (with her mom
we found out later), followed later by the "Mid-jury to Late game".
But I don't think that spoilers affected Alexis' Edgic support. She did have a good first episode and it was only after her weak episode 4 that she loss support by everyone except Blake, OTH and gettingreal, aka "The Three Amigos". 
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Quiddity |
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Posts: 2509 (05/13/08 9:11 PM) Registered User |
That's the basic guide. It isn't that all winners are the same, which at least to me is Quiddity's arguement (please correct it). It's that they tend to be in the middle. But the middle is different each season. Our job is to rate everyone fairly to see where the middle hits. Nothing amazing, or more importantly, condescending bout it. Stop reading spoilers and try it. Playing Edgic is actually fun. Why not give it a chance? OTH, my argument isn't disputing 'a single winner edit', its disputing that the editors take care to edit the winner in a special way that necessitates the various rules that edgic has come up with to predict the winner. Pretty much the only thing I agree with edgic on is that the winner is not going to be completely invisible for the entire season. We'll never see the winner get an edit like Lilliana or Becky. (but then even determining what is exactly INV is tough, and I know many edgic supporters would admit that there have been many arguments over it in their threads) We can and have seen boring/UTR winners and over the top winners though. And why is that? Because the editing is not based on presenting a story, or any other major principles used by people here at the speculation part of the forum, its based on keeping the show entertaining and keeping the ratings up. Why was Danni given a much quieter edit than many around her? Why did edgic fail so miserably with Guatemala? Because Danni had many over the top, entertaining characters surrounding her, particularly Stephenie, who sucked up a ton of the female time on the show. And that's why Danni was edited in the way she was! Because from an interest to the viewer standpoint, she just could not compare to Queen Stephenie, Judd, the ex. NFL QB, and so on. It had nothing to do with a returning player being there and it certainly had nothing to do with this ridiculous notion made up AFTER the season was over that the story was 'why Stephenie lost'. Likewise Todd got a much more over the top edit as a winner than edgic was used to seeing because that's the type of character he was and the editors of the show knew they could show him in that way, keep the show quite entertaining, and keep the ratings up. He was never a 'distraction', as edgic thought he was. I don't think there's any such thing as a 'distraction'. Why were Aras, Yul and Earl edited as servicable, complex at times, but not that interesting players? Because that's the way their personalities were and there were many OTT (Shane, Courtney, Cirie, Yauman, Jonathan) or Ultra boring (Becky, Lilliana, Nick, etc...) around them, which resulted in them being around the middle. Hope that explains things better :P |
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Posts: 1541 (05/14/08 7:23 AM) Edgician |
Great, I responded last night and see no post and got the "yuku teams" fix it message. Oh well.
I'll leave it at this for now and say some item for thought. The first season was what it was. New, Rich Hatch in your face winning but the villain, so fans' wouldn't believe it. Second season, Burnett comments that this time he's doing things opposite. Hence, no Tina to start things. Since then, there have been 14 Survivor games. The winner has been given a confessional in the first 30 minutes of the first episode, 14 out of 14 times. Is that coincidence? Chance? Or a pattern? Final TC is the backbone of the show. One question that has to be shown, as a result the substantive question will require being shown during the season to explain them at the end. (Aras' Melinda boot, Ozzy loves Amanda.) And feelings toward the winner help determine how the winner is presented. Parvati can't be a heroine of epic proportions when she gets comments a la Eliza and Ozzy and James. Todd should be a strategic leaning edit, earning votes as a result of saying so, so no UTR edit there. It isn't hard to pick up cues that reflect on the same person throughout the season that are unresolved until the end. It could be chosen to ignore every facet of a winner until the end. But it isn't done. Even when it's threadbare, like "too much drama" and "cool chick." It's seen. Long time players of Edgic are better at seeing it. After the Final TC issues are threaded into the outline of the show, it's make the rest as entertaining as possible. It's writing a book. You know your ending, you know your setting, you make up an outline. Now you have to make each chapter exciting, leaving readers wanting to continue. But you ty to save the best payoff for the last chapter. Watch and you'll see things repeated each year for the winner, and Edgic works. I'll say flat out, Todd wasn't missed. He was dismissed by a lot of people who simply didn't like him. Parvati had a bunch of that this year, but Edgicians saw through it enough. If Amazon happend now, I wonder if the people now would see Jenna like the original Edgicians did. They would if they could step back. Few people started out doing it, now it's much bigger and broader. But the principles of it work. I wish you'd actually play and find out, Quiddity. I am glad to speak to you directly, by the way. Thanks. Michael P S when you spell Yuku wrong, why doesn't the spellcheck have it as an option?
Last Edited By: OnlyTheHunter
05/14/08 7:26 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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astroline |
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Posts: 1183 (05/15/08 7:28 PM) Registered user |
Oowatanite wrote: I was one of the very, very few who never believed the hype about Alexis, at all. I thought all the constant talk about her opening confessional was the most stupid, pointless discussion ever. It was a very simple narrative confessional describing the nature of the game, that's seriously it. They only gave that confessional to her because she's an articulate young woman who gave all the right soundbytes at the right time, hence why they put that confessional in there. It just really bothered me that everyone was putting SO much stock into that one stupid ass confessional and claiming she was a valid winner pick, yet it was Jason & Tracy who were the fans who were already getting developed in the first episode. Besides Natalie, Alexis was the last fan to get any sort of real development (and that's debatable, since at least Natalie laid out her strategy for us in Episode 4, while Alexis just said she wanted to meet Ozzy) and by then she still had a surprising amount of Edgic support. I guess it wasn't from spoilers apparently, but it was definitely a huge red herring and a complete waste of time to even consider someone like that, especially with edits like Parvati's and Cirie's, and Jason's and Tracy's, and even Eliza had some pretty substantial support for a while. I understood all of this, and those were my 5 main picks throughout the season, with Parvati at #1 every week, but I never put Alexis on my list because I never saw what so many others were seeing in her. I still don't. I don't understand how one narrative confessional makes someone a valid winner pick.... That being said, I'm glad we got the Parvati edit we did (which definitely resembles a mix between Chris & Jenna M.), and the lack of spoilers there were, so it really proved that Edgic can make and stick behind the correct winner pick. I'm happy to say I was one of the biggest Parvati supporters the entire time, the only week she wasn't my #1 pick was Episode 2 and even then she was only barely behind Tracy. I hope that makes up for all my Cassie support in Fiji. It proves that I can actually do Edgic correctly, although I still give out some weird ratings (like the CP2 for Natalie), but honestly, who doesn't? Look through everyone's ratings and you'll find a really odd one from every single one of us.I was one of the first (if not THE first, actually) to throw Amanda onto my winners list, and I admit that I was swayed by the edit she got during the second half of the game. However, the edit I saw in Amanda was a better edit than a lot of the rest of you saw. For me, I had already given Amanda 2 CP's before she got her 1st one on the official chart, and her last UTR/INV episode on my chart was the INV in Episode 4. So, yeah it was a bad, slow start, but this was a truly unique season in that it had both 20 people and 10 returning players within them, her & James also being straight off the previous season. So if anyone needed a slow start, it'd be her & James, since we just saw them so much, and sure enough, that's what happened. I will admit that Amanda's second half edit was definitely a red herring for people like me, but then again she was never higher than #3 on my winners list. It was worth a shot though, and it was worth looking into just in case. |
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JaMalle |
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Posts: 3883 (05/19/08 11:45 PM) Registered User |
omg it's so awful to see so many Edgic haters in here. Thank GOD we stuck (for the most part) with Parvati. I know I did, other than in the middle where I
suspected Eliza would "snake" her. It was always Eliza/Parv for me until Eliza got booted, and then Cirie was the default second pick. So refreshing
to see a victory for Edgic. I'm not bothered by the critics since I know I'm doing Edgic the right way (actually the wrong way when I thought Katie
would win but y'all get the point)!
Great job y'all! |
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grodney |
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Posts: 481 (05/23/08 10:59 AM) Registered User |
The house of cards clue was posted between ep2 and ep3.
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Oowatanite |
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Posts: 5247 (05/23/08 8:04 PM) Registered User |
Yep, that thread page had some Parvati references on it. You know, after the first post that had said "Alexis ftw". And somewhere around the post
with the pic of the falling cards, reading "AMAN"da.
Try again. 
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grodney |
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Posts: 483 (05/23/08 9:52 PM) Registered User |
You don't get it, do you?
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Oowatanite |
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Posts: 5248 (05/24/08 11:57 AM) Registered User |
No, you don't get it. Those pics were clues posted by VG as a game for the sucksters. "Solve the clues". There was a tonne of speculation of
what the clues meant. There were thoughts that "Cirie won". And "Amanda won". And "Alexis won". And "Parvati won".
Your feeble attempt to screw with the viability of Edgic led you to arbitrarily pick and choose whatever stats "proved" your hypothesis.
Okay genius, how do you explain the early Eliza support in Edgic ? And the early Alexis support ? And the early Cirie support ? And the early Ozzy support ? And how do you explain the ZERO support for Natalie in Edgic ? And the ZERO support for Amanda in Edgic ? Nat and Amanda were both spoiled to go far from early on, but Edgic completely dismissed them early on (correctly, I might add). FYI, the "winner" was not |
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craig |
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Posts: 13236 (05/26/08 7:13 AM) Registered User |
I wouldn't be surprised if Spoilers as smart as Volcanic Glass, who knew the F2, relied mostly on Parvati vs Amanda's ep1-4 edit to confirm that
Parvati won. Even finalists are often mistaken or wrong about whether they have won.
Ep2 Parv was 36% winner. Very selective use of stats. Parvati was #1 after episode 1, and Jonathan got a good edit ep,.2 but crash and burned ep.3. |
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ProbstFan123 |
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Posts: 10403 (05/27/08 1:06 PM) Registered user |
I made that comment faceitously, grodney. There was nothing in those clues that specifically pointed to a Parvati win. As Oowatanite mentioned, a lot of
people actually thought it meant the showmance alliance would collapse and one of the non-showmancers would win. Some people even thought it pointed to an
Amanda win.
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grodney |
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Posts: 485 (06/03/08 7:40 AM) Registered User |
Okay, listen y'all, I don't give 2 shits either way on this. Chap is a very intelligent and reasonable poster, so I wanted to contribute from a
totally unbiased point of view.
My point is that as I read the first couple pages of the house of cards thread, yes, there is speculation all over the board, but if I were to wade through it all and make a pick based on that, I would pick Parvati. I think (my opinion, and I think it's reasonable) that a majority of unbiased people reading that would get a lean to Parvati. *Especially* given how the edits had gone already to that point. Then, I simply posted *facts* about when Parv's stats jumped and by how much. Again, point being: You don't need solid spoilers to spoil Edgic. If there are edgicers reading spoilers, and they are reading clues (and speculation about them) by known spoilers, then their ratings/picks could be being influenced. Anyway, whatever. Believe what you want to believe. I seriously honestly couldn't care less, and was just trying to provide an outside view. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 4474 (06/03/08 12:52 PM) |
Wasn't the main reason that Parvati jumped up in episode 3 because two of the big contenders basically got edits that knocked them down? I mean, Jonathan
got his OTT yelling at Cirie and negativity for that and Tracy got an INV. So with them gone, it was basically Parvati and Eliza.
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 4475 (06/03/08 12:56 PM) |
Yeah, by episode 3, the possible winners were basically down to 4 or 5 contenders, and when we're given three votes and Parvati's edit is one of the
best, then it makes sense that she'd spike when she did.
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