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This is a thread about how Edgic is spoiled - SPOILERS IN THREAD

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Relynn

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(04/27/08 12:12 PM)

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cindidindi76 wrote:

Because she made out with Ozzy, and that was it?

It's hard for someone to be under the radar if they are making out and other contestants are talking about how their relationship is a threat. And we literally have two scenes about her/Ozzy relationship. I may not completely understand the ratings, but I don't get how that's under the radar. People who are Under the Radar, are not drawing that kind of attention to themselves.

ProbstFan123

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(04/27/08 12:16 PM)

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It's hard for someone to be under the radar if they are making out and other contestants are talking about how their relationship is a threat.

They were also talking about how disgusting it was that they were making out in front of everyone while people are trying to sleep nearby. With rats scurrying around them.

I don't remember too many previous winners having scenes like that.

Relynn

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(04/27/08 12:23 PM)

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ProbstFan123 wrote:

It's hard for someone to be under the radar if they are making out and other contestants are talking about how their relationship is a threat.
They were also talking about how disgusting it was that they were making out in front of everyone while people are trying to sleep nearby. With rats scurrying around them.

I don't remember too many previous winners having scenes like that.

Huh? There were winners who have done a lot worse things than kiss.. Like Richard Hatch's walking around Naked wasn't gross. Remember Jenna calling Deena a "Fat Pig" and how they presented her as being mean about the deaf girl. In the end, there are far worse things to be done, then kiss a guy on a tv show. (Even if it is gross to do it in front of others) Seriously. Todd's sometimes catty comments? They weren't going to not show Amanda/Ozzy's making out, and of course they are going to make it seem like others were watching because it fit in with the theme of will the Couples be taken out?

But seriously, that was several episodes ago, and Amanda really hasn't done anything that negative since... And they have scenes showing her being nice to Fan Favorite James. Sorry but there are winners who have done far worse things than making out with someone. LOL!

Last Edited By: Relynn 04/27/08 12:29 PM. Edited 1 times.

AllMenAreIslands

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(04/27/08 12:24 PM)

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Relynn wrote:

cindidindi76 wrote:

Because she made out with Ozzy, and that was it?

It's hard for someone to be under the radar if they are making out and other contestants are talking about how their relationship is a threat. And we literally have two scenes about her/Ozzy relationship. I may not completely understand the ratings, but I don't get how that's under the radar. People who are Under the Radar, are not drawing that kind of attention to themselves.

UTR doesn't necessarily mean not being noticed. Depending on whom you ask, UTR can be used for "being shown but without talking, or not much talking but shown quite a bit." Others use UTR for someone who only has fluffy confessionals and not much of that either.

ProbstFan123

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(04/27/08 12:28 PM)

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Relynn, I know you're riding the Amanda train fast and furious these days, but that scene was negative any way you want to spin it. Yes, winners have negative scenes. But rarely do they have scenes where other contestants openly express disdain and disgust for them.

And in that specific scene, Jonathan was talking about Ozzy/Amanda, not Parvati/James.

Last Edited By: ProbstFan123 04/27/08 12:39 PM. Edited 2 times.

Relynn

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(04/27/08 12:53 PM)

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ProbstFan123 wrote:
Relynn, I know you're riding the Amanda train fast and furious these days (especially since the Parvati/Amanda spoiler came out), but that scene was negative any way you want to spin it.

And most of the early showmance negativity was focused on Ozzy/Amanda, not Parvati/James. Which makes you wonder why.

I'm sorry Probst but that's one scene in the entire show...Amanda/Ozzy were more negative than Pavarti/James.. But part of it is that making out is more negative than just cuddling. That wasn't a good idea. And it's also because well Ozzy was edited as much more negative than James. Much more negative. I would disagree though with the idea that Pavarti is somehow more positive than Amanda. That just doesn't fit with the editing.

For example, we have how Pavarti treated James in the last episode and in this current episode. She was presented as someone who 1. Let's him work, while she sleeps 2. She also presented as someone who blamed James on her own betrayal. I thought Pavarti was doing great in her damage control, until she said the whole line well you thought I was stupid. In fact, we got the idea from James confessional that Pavarti's statement right there made him more upset with her than her taking out James. (We know that James has forgiven Amanda for taking him out in China, so he's not one to get bitter about a game.) In contrast, to Pavarti the sleeper, we have Amanda the "shark catcher."

Yes, Amanda's scene was negative. Totally and utterly negative but it was the second episode, and there were plenty of scenes left to go. Amanda as mean and negative has not been reinforced by confessionals. The most negative thing we have seen her say is the Fans need to step up their game.

Personally, Probst, I think your letting some of your personal knowledge about Amanda infiltrate how you see her doing. You mentioned how people like Leslie thought she was arogant/snobbish. But that's not exactly how the show is potraying Amanda.

UTR doesn't necessarily mean not being noticed. Depending on whom you ask, UTR can be used for "being shown but without talking, or not much talking but shown quite a bit." Others use UTR for someone who only has fluffy confessionals and not much of that either.

I wouldn't say though that Amanda had a fluffy confessional though because she talked about how her relationship with Ozzy affected her game. And I get the point that you can have someone who is shown but their game isn't shown but I don't feel that was really the case. The couples were potrayed as so negative in that particular episode, at least in Amanda/Ozzy's case, that you can't say they were under the radar when everyone and their brother was talking about them.

Last Edited By: Relynn 04/27/08 12:55 PM. Edited 1 times.

ProbstFan123

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(04/27/08 12:57 PM)

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You mentioned how people like Leslie thought she was arogant/snobbish. But that's not exactly how the show is potraying Amanda.

I didn't say they were portraying her as arrogant/snobbish. I said they were portraying her as negative in the scene with Ozzy.

Believe me, I have no personal bias one way or the other between Parvati and Amanda - I think they both suck.

Relynn

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(04/27/08 1:22 PM)

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ProbstFan123 wrote:

You mentioned how people like Leslie thought she was arogant/snobbish. But that's not exactly how the show is potraying Amanda.
I didn't say they were portraying her as arrogant/snobbish. I said they were portraying her as negative in the scene with Ozzy.

Believe me, I have no personal bias one way or the other between Parvati and Amanda - I think they both suck.

And I'm agreeing with you that the scene was negative. I didn't think it was smart at all. But you are saying that because of that scene, Amanda won't win. I strongly, strongly disagree with that concept. The show has shown winners doing a lot worse things, a lot worse things than make out.. Remember how they potrayed Jenna Morasco? One negative scene, is not going to stop Amanda from winning the game.

ProbstFan123

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(04/27/08 1:24 PM)

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One negative scene, is not going to stop Amanda from winning the game.

If we're talking from an edgic perspective, it's not the negative scene that will stop Amanda from winning. It's her INV episode (after 3 consecutive UTR episodes).

That's why I said that if she wins, it's another Danni situation, and an edgic failure. Maybe even worse than Danni, because I don't think Danni ever had an INV episode. Although I could be wrong about that.

Relynn

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(04/27/08 2:43 PM)

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ProbstFan123 wrote:

One negative scene, is not going to stop Amanda from winning the game.
If we're talking from an edgic perspective, it's not the negative scene that will stop Amanda from winning. It's her INV episode (after 3 consecutive UTR episodes).

That's why I said that if she wins, it's another Danni situation, and an edgic failure. Maybe even worse than Danni, because I don't think Danni ever had an INV episode. Although I could be wrong about that.

Someone would argue Tina was practically invisible in her first episode. Actually the conservative person thinks Pavarti wins because of her I have to win this time (twice) but then we had a couple of contestants like Yau man/Eliza.

But the reason why I'm hesitant about Amanda not winning is because how the editing has been lately... What I mean is that Amanda was never really a flushed out character in China. She was pretty one dimensional. She's a strategist that's it. In this season, there have been a lot more dimensions to Amanda. We have seen Amanda's relationship with Pavarti/Cirie/and Ozzy. We have seen Amanda's reactions to being blindsided, and her reactions to having another girl flirt for her man.

The editing has someone said had Amanda come accross as a "Woman wronged" so to speak. We were suppose to take her side against Alexis, even though we did feel that she shouldn't be that emotionally involved. But the thing is especially this last episode, Amanda was positive. She was edited as completely different from the other women. The other women were wrapped around Pavarti's little fingers. They were gleeful about being mean to the other men. We saw Amanda being kind to James.

Why was that necessary if it wasn't so that we would like Amanda more? Because James is still a beloved character for Survivor fans. So Amanda being nice to James is good for her character arc. And so in a sense, we are suppose to root for Amanda to take down the other girls (not so much Cirie) but certainly Pavarti, whom we are now suppose to believe is in charge. (And Pavarti's comments to James were fine, until she said well you regarded me as Stupid. That was negative. Pavarti could have taken responsiblity for her own actions and not said it was because James treated her poorly).. The point I'm making though is that in the show, I don't recall them ever really making people actively root for someone in the Final 2 to beat the mastermind. A lot of times it would be why don't those idiots take the person out, but there has never been an active root for this person. Am I wrong?

Maybe Matt vs Jenna. But in Matt's case, we were given clues that Matt was not liked by the jury. For example, the whole he's spooky/sharpening his knive. And well Matt was presented as more Rob's tool, not someone who really knew the game or was actively trying to make alliances to survive.... (Throwing the last immunity challenge wasn't good as well)

The point I'm making is Amanda has been know moved to "underdog edit" and the thing is the underdog edit is pretty weird when you consider Amanda's "real position in this game" According to the interviews, Amanda/Pavarti/Cirie are tight.

Last Edited By: Relynn 04/27/08 2:48 PM. Edited 1 times.

Jenny du Jour

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(04/27/08 3:07 PM)

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Spoiler [+]

I think it's weird that Amanda gets all these UTR UTR INV UTR MORN MORN MOR MOR ratings and no one says she has a chance of winning and then a spoiler says she makes it to the end and then all of a sudden people start saying oh lets give her CPP6 or however they grade it and say she is one of their picks to win.

ProbstFan123

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(04/27/08 3:19 PM)

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Spoiler [+]

Well, there's no winner spoiler yet. There are rumors of a Parvati/Amanda final 2 though. But like I said, edgic has already picked Parvati and Cirie as the only two contenders. So even if everyone jumped on the Amanda bandwagon today, it wouldn't affect edgic's predictions. But it would look really obvious.

Is this all starting to sound familiar? Kind of like last season? Yeah, I thought so too. :)

Relynn

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(04/27/08 4:00 PM)

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ProbstFan123 wrote:

Spoiler [+]

Well, there's no winner spoiler yet. There are rumors of a Parvati/Amanda final 2 though. But like I said, edgic has already picked Parvati and Cirie as the only two contenders. So even if everyone jumped on the Amanda bandwagon today, it wouldn't affect edgic's predictions. But it would look really obvious.

Is this all starting to sound familiar? Kind of like last season? Yeah, I thought so too. :)

Amanda is one of my favorite players, so I am biased. But a part of me does think Pavarti wins, and refuses to get my hopes up after last year. Still, there is the other part who does (rationally think) there is an underdog edit going on there. And actually, I never understood why people were writing her off so quickly... Anyways, when the spoilers always had her at the end of the game.

cindidindi76

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(04/27/08 4:07 PM)

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Amanda's only story for the first 4 or 5 (i'm guessing) episodes was that she was hooking up with Ozzy. That alone should eliminate her.

ProbstFan123

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(04/27/08 4:11 PM)

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And actually, I never understood why people were writing her off so quickly... Anyways, when the spoilers always had her at the end of the game.

That's the whole point - Edgic is supposed to be done unspoiled. Of course we all know it rarely works out that way.

As to why people wrote her off so quickly in edgic...like I said, 3 consecutive UTR episodes and an INV episode. The same reason any other player would be eliminated if they got those ratings.

Edgic and spoilers are two completely separate things...at least in theory.

Regardless, there are no winner spoilers, so I'm quite confident that Amanda doesn't win. Plus I've already picked Parvati as the winner way too long to back down now.

I guess I've gone "all in" with Parvati, so to speak.

craig

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(04/27/08 9:55 PM)

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And I think they are definetly setting up a showdown between Pavarti/Amanda. Notice how we see Amanda talking about Pavarti controlling the tribe and having control of all the girls.

I agree (loved Amanda's opening scene last episode), but that's perfectly compatible with Amands losing because of her ep.1-4 edit. Basically she was Parvati's shadow until the switch.

Her edit perked up when she killed the shark. They've been setting up Amanda vs the Fan Girls (ever since Amanda was bad-mouthing the fans on New Malakal round ep.6, and continuing with her hostility to Alexis at the merge). But I can't see them making Ozzy so negative if Amanda was to win as his surrogate. Rather, I think Parvati wins because she had the guts to boot Ozzy, and Amanda doesn't have enough friends outside her little clique.

I laugh at how the hardcore Parvati haters will get behind anyone who might prevent her winning. Alexis was previously a papular choice for that reason. Some people would rather root for a bland invisible nothing because they can't stand flirty girls, or can't get over Raro's edit in S13 or her feud with Jonathan.

Last Edited By: craig 04/27/08 10:04 PM. Edited 1 times.

Relynn

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(04/28/08 5:18 AM)

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craig wrote:

And I think they are definetly setting up a showdown between Pavarti/Amanda. Notice how we see Amanda talking about Pavarti controlling the tribe and having control of all the girls.

I agree (loved Amanda's opening scene last episode), but that's perfectly compatible with Amands losing because of her ep.1-4 edit. Basically she was Parvati's shadow until the switch.

Her edit perked up when she killed the shark. They've been setting up Amanda vs the Fan Girls (ever since Amanda was bad-mouthing the fans on New Malakal round ep.6, and continuing with her hostility to Alexis at the merge). But I can't see them making Ozzy so negative if Amanda was to win as his surrogate. Rather, I think Parvati wins because she had the guts to boot Ozzy, and Amanda doesn't have enough friends outside her little clique.

I laugh at how the hardcore Parvati haters will get behind anyone who might prevent her winning. Alexis was previously a papular choice for that reason. Some people would rather root for a bland invisible nothing because they can't stand flirty girls, or can't get over Raro's edit in S13 or her feud with Jonathan.

Who says Amanda wins as Ozzy's surrogate. Maybe she wins on her own merits. Read the post again where someone who watches editing talks about the show. She talks about how James/Amanda are edited as heros. And they put Amanda a lot with James in the last two episodes. They may be setting Amanda up to win as James surrogate. Plus, there were absolutely no comments from Amanda about getting revenge from Ozzy. If Amanda's win was about her getting revenge from Ozzy well.. Plus, Amanda's anti fan edit, might have edited when she/Cirie choose Erik over Ami...

chaperone

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(04/28/08 12:49 PM)

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ProbstFan123 wrote:
If Amanda wins (which I highly, highly doubt), then edgic failed this season. That's the bottom line.

If Amanda wins this season, edgic as a concept is all but dead.

Parvati's been the pick since week one, with a few weeks where she dipped below 50%. If Parvati wins this, there's plenty of support that edgic had her picked long before she was spoiled (if she is...I'm not reading the spoiler marked things...). And furthermore, she's picked over Amanda and Natalie even though all 3 are spoiled to make it far in the game. Alexis fell off the edgic pick chart by episode 4, but her too. Additionally, having a heavy contingent picking Eliza up to her boot is pretty telling of edgic's lack of spoiledness. I feel pretty comfortable saying that edgic is not heavily influenced by spoilers.

Player	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11
Alexis Jones	42.03%	32.00%	55.56%	8.70%	8.33%	7.94%	3.92%	6.25%	6.67%	6.67%	5.88%
Chet Welch	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Erik Reichenbach	4.35%	5.33%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Jason Siska	26.09%	9.33%	9.72%	1.45%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Joel Anderson	0.00%	1.33%	5.56%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Kathleen Sleckman	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Mary Sartain	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Mikey Bortone	1.45%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Natalie Bolton	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Tracy Hughes-Wolf	14.49%	46.67%	5.56%	36.23%	16.67%	7.94%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Amanda Kimmel	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Ami Cusack	1.45%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Cirie Fields	0.00%	14.67%	8.33%	1.45%	16.67%	23.81%	39.22%	25.00%	33.33%	33.33%	17.65%
Eliza Orlins	14.49%	2.67%	23.61%	49.28%	60.00%	74.60%	58.82%	25.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
James Clement	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Jonathan Penner	26.09%	48.00%	0.00%	4.35%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Johnny Fairplay	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Ozzy Lusth	7.25%	2.67%	13.89%	11.59%	15.00%	3.17%	3.92%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Parvati Shallow	53.62%	36.00%	72.22%	84.06%	50.00%	42.86%	52.94%	43.75%	60.00%	60.00%	70.59%
Yau-Man Chan	5.80%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%

OTH, Blake, MDN, and Unduli have eliminated Cirie. If there was any sort of Cirie-doesn't-win-spoiler this week, MDN, OTH, and Unduli all had her eliminated last week too. And for the record, had I voted this week for eliminations, I would've eliminated Cirie as well based on being nearly absent in this episode.

chaperone

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(04/28/08 12:54 PM)

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Jedijake wrote:
The credibility of just about every person at Edgic is pretty much shot now. Those who claim that they don't go to spoilers and don't want those who do to post in edgic are some of the most guilty themselves.

With the new events in the past few days suggesting that Parvati may indeed win, you have to wonder why certain "edgic pro's" are giving Parvati a "P" in rating and even eliminating Cirie from contention. Seems a little presumptuous and forced coming from those who feel it's a battle between the two, doesn't it?

And yet, only a week ago, several of those folks were the same people who were cursing out some of the Cirie-supporters for reading and posting in spoiler threads.

More than 50% of those who post in edgic also post in the spoilers boards. Probably 90% read them. Makes you wonder why some have been calling out Cirie-supporters for being spoiled when more spoilers are pointing toward Parvati.

Maybe to save face? Hmmm...just a thought!

Stay tuned...

This post makes no sense, JJ. Two people gave Parv a P...one being Craig. 5 gave N's, 2 gave mixed neutrals. Secondarily, even if everyone had given a P that doesn't mean that we think they're the winner. TONE is a good thing for a winner, positive, negative, doesn't matter.

ProbstFan123

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(05/01/08 4:13 PM)

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Spoiler [+]

And so it begins. Now that the Parvati/Amanda spoilers have come out, we're starting to see the "Amanda could pick up steam in the final few episodes" posts in edgic. It's like clockwork. Never mind the fact that edgic eliminated her months ago.

But I'm sure the timing is just coincidental.

Last Edited By: ProbstFan123 05/01/08 4:31 PM. Edited 1 times.

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