S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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gretchensucks		#4681	[-]
Posts: 486 (05/09/08 9:00 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Parvati's "I don't need to look for the idol" is not a winner's edit IMO. That's a set up for a fall.
Francois40		#4682	[-]
Posts: 2198 (05/09/08 9:04 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	i don't think erik is a good player, though. and in this context, it was a bad move (learn from history, sweetie). but to give an immunity to someone else as a way to prove that you are voting with them could be a good move. COULD be, in a very very different situation, but really, WHAT did he have to gain, with the hand he had? Assume he refuses to hand it over--what do they do then? He should have asked them flat out. Many of us assume it would be Natalie, but when he asks Cirie and Natalie how they'd vote if he is immune, Cirie is obviously not going to say "Natalie" right in front of him. He didn't even think that far--or think at ALL, frankly--he was caught in a web of female guilt-tripping and trying to make them like him. Whom did he think Natalie was going to vote for, with or without his "help"? If the Faves wanted to boot a Fan, they would do it. If Cirie and Nat wanted to boot Amanda as they had done with previous week, they could have. I think a big key to this lies in Cirie's plan that NAT was the person who could get the necklace from him. We may now be seeing why she was so INV all along--she must have been a really good actress in working the Fan guys (ditto with Jason) into thinking she was tight with them, and probably having confessionals saying "SUCKERS!" If we'd seen all of that, there wouldn't have been the suspense of the Jason boot or the Erik boot, so much. But, I wish I'd seen Natalie's confessionals all along. I didn't see her not looking for the idol as N per se--she was given the chance to clearly explain why she chose not to look for the idol. I need to watch again, but do we know for SURE that she didn't look for it? We saw one confessional, which might have been 2 hours after she arrived, and then she could easily have later gone to look for it (out of pure boredom, if nothing else). Whether or not she "needed it" herself, she's too good a player not to go for the extra insurance of having it in order to give it away to an ally; I think she probably DID look for it at least some, but the story of this episode was going to be Erik, Erik, Erik, so they didn't waste footage on her search, and conveniently had a snippet of her saying she wouldn't look for it. Erik OTTN5 That level of stupidity, when combined with being called out for promising everything to everyone can't avoid an N tone. But for the whole EPISODE, he had lots of P...winning the Reward, going on the Reward, and especially winning the IC--the underdog who needs to win SO BADLY, and does! Yay for the kid! That was a full half hour of the show, and the rating is for the WHOLE episode, not just "the most memorable part". Just as Natalie didn't deserve NN from two confessionals, when she'd been quite upbeat for the first half of the episode and in the auction, Erik doesn't deserve an N even for the most boneheaded "strategy" in 16 seasons, unless we're going to start rating move-by-move.
OnlyTheHunter		#4683	[-]
Posts: 1515 (05/09/08 9:33 AM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Here's a difference. With Jason, he played stupidly when booted, but also had looked smug about how he was strong, beat Ozzy, etc. Erik told Amanda how out of his league he was, was sorry, tried to come clean. Same results, different characterizations. Michael
Lemun		#4684	[-]
Posts: 328 (05/09/08 10:54 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't know about tone tonight. I think it was left up for the audience to decide how they felt about these mostly reported events. Sometimes documentary style works best. Initial thoughts: Dabu Amanda: CPM3- All of the sudden she is the strategic player?Amanda continues her distraction edit. She gets her positve moments, but I thought she was quite harsh to Erik at tribal. Chances: Eliminated. Cirie: CPM4 (N): If anyone was negative this episode, it would have been Cirie and Nat. Overall, I thought she was Mixed. I really can see Cirie winning, but Parv has the slight edge over her. If this wasn't such a reported episode, I would have said that Cirie's voting confessional was key to her winning this game. Chances: Second in command. Erik: OTTM5 - I know he is stupid, but I don't feel he was all that negative. Poor Erik was star struck, naive, and worked all the way through. I felt really bad for him at the end of it all. Chances: Eliminated. Natalie: MOR3 (N)- She didn't have any redeeming moments, so she is either N or static. She worked Erik, but wasn't CP in any sort of way. Chances: Eliminated. Parvati: UTR2- Came off looking good? Was free of the Erik drama, but had her little "exile was a vacation to me." She is going to get it from the jury, but I think most will respect her gameplay to vote for her. Chances: Winner. Winners 1. Parvati 2. Cirie 3. Amanda 4. Natalie
Green Coffee		#4685	[-]
Posts: 67 (05/09/08 10:58 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	gretchensucks wrote: Parvati's "I don't need to look for the idol" is not a winner's edit IMO. That's a set up for a fall. That's what happened, though. If they had not shown her on exile, people would point to it as evidence against her. In this case, they showed what happened on exile, which just so happened to be something that "a winner wouldn't do." In terms of practicality for the drama of the vote, they needed to explain it. If they didn't explain that Parvati definitely did not have the idol, it would distract from the real drama of this TC: Erik's mistake. Otherwise, viewers would be wondering about the possibility of the idol, even when they did not need to. The TV show drama aspect of the editing, and the goals of the episode need to be considered. I'm not sure how they could have effectively set this up in a more economical way without just reporting the facts. Also, plenty of winners have intentionally given up their shot at immunity before. If it succeeds (see Rich), its a "great risk." If it fails, it's a "dumb move." Similar thing here: if Parvati wins, it was just reporting. If she loses, this was proof. Edgic is easy to do in hindsight.
AllMenAreIslands		#4686	[-]
Posts: 23694 (05/09/08 11:04 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If she'd been booted, it would have been dumb of Parvati to blow off the chance for extra insurance. However, since she wasn't booted, it's kind of moot. Whatever happens NEXT has nothing to do with whether or not she looked for the idol. Can the idol be used at F4? If it can, and Parvati is booted because she didn't bother to look for it while she had the chance, THEN she can be labeled stupid or cocky. For the moment, she seems to be correct in thinking she's safe.
scepticA		#4687	[-]
Posts: 1360 (05/09/08 11:27 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'd say the only problem for Cirie's chances of winning is her generally high visibility throughout the game. Taken as a whole she has been way too visible. She's had a couple of quieter eps post-merge but that's still not enough to bring her back into average viz. But that might be a change to the editing of a female winner. For fun I've looked at the edgic threads for S10-13 recently. The above (with the exception of the "female" stuff) could have been taken from the posts about that guy who was way too visible. His name was Tom. The saving grace is the "female" stuff, so Cirie can't win because of the edgic rule about female players... I know it's here somewhere... OTH: My comments about "game logic" were specifically noted as non-edgic. My point was more along the lines of: Even if I didn't at the time personally like the winner (Hatch, Brian H, Vee come to mind) I still understood why they won. With Hatch and Brian it was superior play, with Vee it was a vindictive group of 4 and a deliberately "too much drama" UTR game plan. I simply don't think Parv has played a superior game. A good one, but not a great one. Right now one of the primary highlights to Parv's winning edgic chances was that first-ep confessional about changing up her game. Without that quote I admit I probably wouldn't have had her as my edgic fave - it just seemed so "in synch" with our expectations of how players should play the game. The problem is that the whole idea about changing up your game really hasn't shown up anywhere else - if you stepped away from the TV for those ten seconds of ep 1 to answer the phone you'd have no idea of the significance of "changing your game." (This isn't like that magic rock-thing in Vanuatu, which was BIG in the first ep then made a magic reappearance in the finale.) Maybe what is giving me doubts (doubts! magic special doubts!!) about Parv was that statement on EI. The problem I had with it was that it was SOOO Cook Island Parvati. It was showing her as not changing all that much. She's still my edgic pick, but the editors are sure piling on the doubt.
Francois40		#4688	[-]
Posts: 2199 (05/09/08 11:29 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Can the idol be used at F4? If it can, and Parvati is booted because she didn't bother to look for it while she had the chance, THEN she can be labeled stupid or cocky. For the moment, she seems to be correct in thinking she's safe. F5 was it; someone said that this was the last time it could have been played.
chaperone		#4689	[-]
Posts: 2486 (05/09/08 11:31 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	GrenadeJumper85 wrote: But at some point we have to ask about game logic as well as editing logic. THANK YOU! Sometimes here it seems like people have completely ditched the "logic" part and just focus on the editing. We've discussed this at many points over the seasons...the "logic" in the title of "edgic" is modifying the word "editing" and not referring to game logic. scepticA wrote: I said it a few days ago, and repeat it now: Erik was a fan of the SHOW. He was not a fan of the GAME. That's the key to him, and to a lot of those "fans." That's extremely insightful and explains my frustration with him...I couldn't put it together but that's dead on. How could a fan of this game be so stupid? Answer...he was a fan of the show and not the game. Nice, Scep. His final words were so bizarrely idolatrous of the characters that he couldn't even realize how to play the game. Relynn wrote: But then Amanda's edit is really strong Amanda's edit is a textbook definition of a weak edit. Her last four episodes have been wonderful. You might as well make a case for Natalie to have a strong edit if you think Amanda has a good one.
gretchensucks		#4690	[-]
Posts: 492 (05/09/08 12:16 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	When I was talking about Parvati's not looking for the idol edit, I was talking about the edit, not the content. The way is was portrayed was the classic setup for a fall in the end. The sunning herself, the music, it was very Ozzy-esque with the cockiness portrayal. Survivor loves to bring people like that down. If they wanted to present the fact that she didn't need to look for the idol, they could have presented it in a more neutral way than they did. It was cute, and I found it funny...but I've seen them use edits like that before and it isn't a good sighn for Parvati's chances IMO.
catfishbarb		#4691	[-]
Posts: 434 (05/09/08 12:33 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	gretchensucks wrote: When I was talking about Parvati's not looking for the idol edit, I was talking about the edit, not the content. The way is was portrayed was the classic setup for a fall in the end. The sunning herself, the music, it was very Ozzy-esque with the cockiness portrayal. Survivor loves to bring people like that down. If they wanted to present the fact that she didn't need to look for the idol, they could have presented it in a more neutral way than they did. It was cute, and I found it funny...but I've seen them use edits like that before and it isn't a good sighn for Parvati's chances IMO. I thought is was similar to something Richard H or Brian H would have said, even Jenna M.
scepticA		#4692	[-]
Posts: 1361 (05/09/08 12:40 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I thought is was similar to something Richard H or Brian H would have said, even Jenna M. Richard and Brian would only have said it - if they would have at all - along the lines of: I don't need to look because I have the others completely wrapped around my fingers. It would have been cocky and arrogant (and correct.) I don't think they'd have used the word "trust" in their explanation (a la: I really trust Helen and Clay.) Jenna? I'm not sure. At F5 she was in deeps#1t trouble, and I bet would have spent hour upon hour looking for it. But again - "trust" wouldn't have been part of any explanation of hers.
cantthinkofaname		#4693	[-]
Posts: 1124 (05/09/08 12:44 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Parvati's "I don't need to look for the idol" is not a winner's edit IMO. That's a set up for a fall. Also adds to her Negativity.
Jacare15		#4694	[-]
Posts: 1099 (05/09/08 12:51 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Jenna would have looked for it since she and Heidi were in the minority and it was clear that Rob was trying to break them up.
craig		#4695	[-]
Posts: 13044 (05/09/08 1:02 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Cirie quit the F9 endurance challenege for gummi worms. What a arrogent, overconfident, lazy bitch. No way she can win. Made poor Parvati do the work of beating Jason for immunity so Ozzy could be lulled into a false sense of security and not use his idol. Of course Cirie was in no danger of being booted. And neither was Parvati. Todd chose to eat rather than complete in an IC last season too.
Kitty Pryde1		#4696	[-]
Posts: 3989 (05/09/08 1:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	At this point, I'm still up in the air between Parvati and Cirie. Parvati has the numbers and a decent enough edit, but I think Cirie has the connection to the two major themes. 1. Alexis' "game-changing" theme: Cirie may not have physically changed her game, but edit-wise, she's been much more low-key while still masterminding things. Note how her name has only been brought up once in this game as a boot target. 2. James/Cirie's "favorite but also a fan" theme: Two confessionals in the first episode about how the favorites are fans themselves, but Cirie's was much more subtle. If a favorite were to win, what better storyline could they think of? Also, note in the Survivor fan challenge how Parvati was the one who turned to Cirie and told her to beat Erik, implying that Cirie was the better fan.
Kitty Pryde1		#4697	[-]
Posts: 3990 (05/09/08 1:23 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ratings After A Second Watch: Amanda - CPM4 Cirie - CPM4 Erik - OTTM5 Natalie - MORN3 Parvati - UTRN2 Winners Cirie Parvati Amanda Natalie Losers
fat little fingers		#4698	[-]
Posts: 5509 (05/09/08 1:27 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Winners: Cirie - She's had the most consistent edit throughout the season, and she was my #2 choice, (to Eliza) through most of the pre-merge and my #1 for the entire post-merge so I'm not bailing now. Fair enough DDL. She certainly should be at least the #2 choice. Parvati trumps her on Ep1 and merge visibility/content, but Cirie has no lack of tone and content throughout the season. I will even toss in a significant little scene for consideration: After the opening return from Alexis' boot TC, Cirie offers to build a fire. Parvati asks, "You can do that? In the dark?", and Cirie promptly proceeds to do just that. The eds are making a very interesting comment on Cirie's mastery of her environment. She is shown, again, to be worlds away from "that person on the couch" who was shown being nervous about eating raw fish. All three remaining faves have direct links to their opening confessionals: Amanda said that she realized after losing China, that she needed to be more vocal and out-front in her play. Her post-merge edit has been showing her doing just that. Cirie, as said above, has been showing all season that she is more than the couch potato who is out of her element. Parvati, of course, has a clearly defined strategy for play that the season has followed. She hits the Edgic expected marks at the Ep1 opening and the merge. All three answer the Alexis theme confessional in a positive, potentially winning, way. That they are also the likely F-3 doesn't seem just an edit coincidence. Jacare: Parvati had a weird edit this episode but ... It tied in together once at Tribal Council and she says "It ended up being like little vacation for me. But when I got back from exile, I heard about Erik running around and making alliances with every single person and then breaking up alliances, switching them up, and switching back over. He didn't even need to do that since he won immunity three times in a row. So I was happy to be exile away from it." Jacare, I agree. On second watching, this scene stuck out for me and eased a lot of my concern about Parvati's comments on EI. It was a significant TC comment for the eds to add. At this stage of the game (at any stage of Edgic), we have to keep each episode's manipulations in perspective with the entire season. Parvati has hit the marks I've expected of the Edgic winner. This episode put her in the back seat, while even Natalie starred. But, looking season-wide, Cirie is the close Edgic second, while Parvati has the better opening and merge eps. btw: There's ol' INV, no story Nat. In the F-4 just as we suspected since the early season. The Darrah Quasi-Law of Edgic still holds.
dennydoylelives		#4699	[-]
Posts: 2286 (05/09/08 1:40 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	fat little fingers wrote: btw: There's ol' INV, no story Nat. In the F-4 just as we suspected since the early season. The Darrah Quasi-Law of Edgic still holds. Or she could be the Becky/Cassandra no vote F3 irrelevent non-entity while Amanda gets to Sundra/Becky the F4 fire making tie breaker challenge.
TheIsraeliDevil	Wow...	#4700	[-]
Posts: 2125 (05/09/08 2:36 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Just wow. What an idiot. I never laughed so hard watching Survivor before. Amazing. I didn't read all the posts here yet, but Parvati's still winning. The pentimulate episode editing is never coherent with the rest of the season, don't get worried about it.

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S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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