S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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Oowatanite		#4441	[-]
Posts: 5156 (05/05/08 10:03 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Relynn wrote: Amber was a UTR quiet player who basically hid behind big mean Rob ....... Danni was a quieter player who did most of her strategy off camera. Okay. First of all, I agree that the Story of ASS was "How RobM Lost". I also agree that the Story of Guatemala was "How Steph Lost". But please don't give me this bullshit about "Danni doing all of her strategizing off-camera". Or else we'll have to argue that "Amber did all of her strategizing off-camera". And "Jenn did all of her strategizing off-camera". And "Alexis did all of her strategizing off-camera". And "Liliana did all of her strategizing off-camera". If Danni and Brandon wander off to the dock in the pouring rain, a cameraman will follow them. If Gary and Danni wander off into the woods, a cameraman will follow them. Did Danni refuse to reveal very much of her strategy during confessionals ? Maybe. Did Danni give lousy confessionals overall ? Maybe. Is that why she got a weak winner's edit ? Probably. But please, let's stop this "Danni did her strategizing off-camera" bullshit. Now.
scepticA		#4442	[-]
Posts: 1353 (05/05/08 10:11 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oo: Here's what happened in Guatemala: Danni did her strategizing off-camera. She said this many times. The other survivors agreed. There were typically three different camera crews on the island, and at night sometimes only one. Danni would wait until the three (or one) were occupied elsewhere and then strategize with whomever was around. This doesn't apply to Alexis, because 1) we don't know if it happened, and 2) Alexis doesn't win. In the case of Danni, her non-camera strategy was used to try and explain edgic's failure. Whether it was or wasn't the reason edgic didn't work doesn't change the fact that Danni did her strategizing off-camera.
Oowatanite		#4443	[-]
Posts: 5157 (05/05/08 10:42 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	scepticA wrote: Oo: Here's what happened in Guatemala: Danni did her strategizing off-camera. She said this many times. The other survivors agreed. There were typically three different camera crews on the island, and at night sometimes only one. Danni would wait until the three (or one) were occupied elsewhere and then strategize with whomever was around. This doesn't apply to Alexis, because 1) we don't know if it happened, and 2) Alexis doesn't win. In the case of Danni, her non-camera strategy was used to try and explain edgic's failure. Whether it was or wasn't the reason edgic didn't work doesn't change the fact that Danni did her strategizing off-camera. Okay. Whatever. I just get frustrated that "Amber hid behind RobM and RobM made all of the decisions" while "Danni strategized off-camera". Both of their wins were overshadowed by the F2 loser. I would even argue that Amber had a better edit than Danni. Amber probably still should have been picked by Edgic, but at that time, there was still the guideline about "no known F2 alliance actually makes it to the F2". In the case of Danni, her non-camera strategy was used to try and explain edgic's failure. Okay, this is what I was driving at, I guess. Edgic failed for Guatemala because Palau heroine Steph lost big-time in the F2. So the story had to be told about "why Steph lost". That's it. Danni could have given the most eloquent confessionals ever. Danni could have followed the cameramen around all day and night and explained ALL of her strategies. It doesn't matter, the main edit thrust would still be "why Steph lost". Edgic's failure in Guatemala had ~~little~~ nothing to do with "off-camera strategizing".
chaperone		#4444	[-]
Posts: 2480 (05/05/08 11:13 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Overall Rankings MOR3Alexis Jones MOR2Erik Reichenbach UTR2Natalie Bolton CPP5Amanda Kimmel CP3Cirie Fields MORP3James Clement CPP3Parvati Shallow Episode Rating Averages (From most to least) (INV=1, UTR=2, CP=3, MOR=4, OTT=5) 4.11James Clement 3.94Alexis Jones 3.89Erik Reichenbach 3.17Parvati Shallow 3.11Cirie Fields 3.00Amanda Kimmel 2.22Natalie Bolton Episode Tone Averages (From most to least) (NN=-2, N=-1, neutral=0, P=1, PP=2) 1.000Amanda Kimmel 0.944James Clement 0.556Parvati Shallow 0.056Cirie Fields 0.000Alexis Jones 0.000Natalie Bolton -0.056Erik Reichenbach Episode Visibility Averages (From most to least) 4.89Amanda Kimmel 3.06Parvati Shallow 3.00Alexis Jones 3.00Cirie Fields 2.94James Clement 2.11Erik Reichenbach 1.94Natalie Bolton Season Rating Averages (From most to least) (INV=1, UTR=2, CP=3, MOR=4, OTT=5) 4.06Ozzy Lusth 4.00Mikey Bortone 3.82Kathleen Sleckman 3.79Jonathan Penner 3.56Chet Welch 3.53Joel Anderson 3.52Erik Reichenbach 3.31James Clement 3.31Jason Siska 3.29Johnny Fairplay 3.14Cirie Fields 3.09Tracy Hughes-Wolf 3.03Eliza Orlins 2.83Parvati Shallow 2.75Amanda Kimmel 2.52Alexis Jones 2.50Ami Cusack 2.43Yau-Man Chan 2.25Mary Sartain 1.91Natalie Bolton Season Tone Averages (From most positive to least) (NN=-2, N=-1, neutral=0, P=1, PP=2) 0.373Erik Reichenbach 0.371Tracy Hughes-Wolf 0.329Yau-Man Chan 0.324Kathleen Sleckman 0.209Eliza Orlins 0.096Ami Cusack 0.054Mary Sartain 0.041Jonathan Penner 0.025Alexis Jones 0.000Johnny Fairplay -0.069Ozzy Lusth -0.070Jason Siska -0.083James Clement -0.089Amanda Kimmel -0.100Cirie Fields -0.131Natalie Bolton -0.170Parvati Shallow -0.289Joel Anderson -0.494Mikey Bortone -0.525Chet Welch Season Visibility Averages (From most to least) 5.00Johnny Fairplay 3.79Joel Anderson 3.71Ozzy Lusth 3.45Jonathan Penner 3.24Mikey Bortone 3.20Eliza Orlins 3.15Cirie Fields 3.01Tracy Hughes-Wolf 2.92Kathleen Sleckman 2.70Jason Siska 2.69Parvati Shallow 2.68Chet Welch 2.54Erik Reichenbach 2.22Amanda Kimmel 2.17Yau-Man Chan 2.14James Clement 2.13Ami Cusack 1.93Mary Sartain 1.91Alexis Jones 1.40Natalie Bolton MOR differencial (Sum difference from middle of road for total season) 0.40Cirie Fields 0.44Eliza Orlins 0.47Tracy Hughes-Wolf 0.65Parvati Shallow 0.68Jason Siska 1.12Amanda Kimmel 1.23Kathleen Sleckman 1.25James Clement 1.29Jonathan Penner 1.35Erik Reichenbach 1.40Chet Welch 1.47Ami Cusack 1.60Alexis Jones 1.61Joel Anderson 1.73Yau-Man Chan 1.73Mikey Bortone 1.84Ozzy Lusth 1.88Mary Sartain 2.29Johnny Fairplay 2.82Natalie Bolton Edgic Losers (Percentage of possible loser votes) 100.00%Erik Reichenbach 100.00%Natalie Bolton 88.24%Amanda Kimmel 23.53%Cirie Fields 0.00%Parvati Shallow Edgic Winners (Percentage of winner votes received) 82.35%Parvati Shallow 11.76%Cirie Fields 5.88%Amanda Kimmel 0.00%Erik Reichenbach 0.00%Natalie Bolton Close Calls -- none -- Total Voters: 17 (16 on winners/elims)
astroline		#4445	[-]
Posts: 1133 (05/05/08 11:19 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Chap, I just voted like 10 minutes ago, did my votes go in? Either way, I'm really glad Parvati got that CPP3. And it's interesting Erik didn't even get close to an N, and he got the MOR and Natalie got the UTR, when Natalie had the confessional(s?) and Erik didn't have any. It makes sense though, that's how I voted. I wasn't the Amanda winner vote. She's just been my #3 for the past month, that's it. I've voted for Parvati #1 every week.
chaperone		#4446	[-]
Posts: 2481 (05/05/08 11:33 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Your vote counted, Astro. FLF voted after you even, and his vote counted too. :)
Kitty Pryde1		#4447	[-]
Posts: 3958 (05/05/08 11:50 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sweet, every rating I gave except Cirie's M ended up being the consensus. Also, I'm the Cirie voter who switched over to Parvati.
guatemala fanfic		#4448	[-]
Posts: 3161 (05/05/08 12:12 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sweet, every rating I gave except Cirie's M ended up being the consensus. Me too. I guess our ratings were identical!
Kitty Pryde1		#4449	[-]
Posts: 3961 (05/05/08 12:16 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	guatemala fanfic wrote: Sweet, every rating I gave except Cirie's M ended up being the consensus. Me too. I guess our ratings were identical! Edgic Twin Powers, ACTIVATE! Form of...an ICE MENORAH!
Werwanderflugen		#4450	[-]
Posts: 121 (05/05/08 12:19 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Funny-- in every episode since the merge, my tone rating for Parvati and the edgic consensus have been different! Ah well, at least my chart looks cool...
OnlyTheHunter		#4451	[-]
Posts: 1498 (05/05/08 1:26 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kitty said Edgic Twin Powers, ACTIVATE! Form of...an ICE MENORAH! Okay, that is hilarious! Great laugh! Although it reminds me they actually created the Wonder Twins for the Justice League in the first place! Why? Why? Oo, you don't have to sell me on Amber, at least. Shi-Ann's callout of her upon her boot felt huge to me, and yet fans still talked about Rob and Rupert and maybe Tom and Jenna afterward. They were giving it away! I'd disagree only slightly with Guat. Could have shown more of Danni, easily. It was a choice to show Steph's implosion. Take out 2-3 scenes here and there, and you still feel the same way about Steph and Danni by the end. When chaperone posted early this season about the obvious thought of CBS wanting plenty of the popular audience draw, they got their way. It, for me, felt hollow. What had I been watching? But it wasn't 100% given it had to be the main edit thrust, however, given a returning player, it was the likeliest choice. Returning player seasons are screwy with Edgic, and I sort of understand why. Everything about a new character is set up from episode one. With returnees, the editors have to deal with different issues. How much needs to be re-introduced to fans? How much is a given that fans likely know? Do they have to explain the differences the returnees go through from first season to this one? Edgic should pinpoint a story, but those concerns lead to care that will skew things. You think they show too much, when an editor might feel it's too little. Or they assume something is a given, but the viewer doesn't get it and is left at a loss. I was concerned with returning players, because that fact alone does cause thoughts in editing that aren't needed normally. No close calls. Not surprised. Pretty cut and dried episode. Now that I feel like I'm waiting for Parvati to win, I can hope for Tracy to wear a vavoom dress to the reunion. Michael
Warrior		#4452	[-]
Posts: 2592 (05/05/08 1:33 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Refresh page if you don't see week 12...
fat little fingers		#4453	[-]
Posts: 5492 (05/05/08 1:36 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	FLF voted after you even, and his vote counted too. It's pitiful, but at least I got that squeaker in. My ratings match up, except for James, who I gave a neutral tone to. All the tones were damped down this time, except for Amanda, who got her triumphant ep in. The big emo-tone story now appears to have shifted. It's starting to be between the top 3 likey finalists (Cirie, Amanda, Parvati) and the jury. Even Eric has faded away after so many heavily toned eps. I see the arguments being made in Amanda's favor. But it still only moves her to the number 3 spot. Cirie maintains her long-term control of #2, while Parvati has managed to check-off on every Edgic guideline and quasi-guideline there is. End-game confessional intro. Thematic intro. Avoidance of INV. Greater neglect than those of a male winner. (mid-season UTR1s) Notably, her string of strong CPs that began with the merge. This is the icing on the cake for those who picked her pre-merge. Those CPs containing comments toward the jury and the win. Relevant SPV on her gamer abilities. Doubt mixed with self-reflection. on and on... Parvati's review of her flirt/gamer theme in Ep1's second half may be viewed as overkill in our future, the same way posters seem to be talking about Earl's edit now. Earl always had contenders: Yau-Man and Dreamz. Like my rejection of Todd, maybe we should just give Edgic credit where credit is due and say that we' can close- in pretty quickly on the winner if we just let the edit facts and guidelines do their job. We've learned to focus on the opening sequence and we've learned how to quickly identify a relevant end-game quote from a shorter-term comment. We may be bored with the fact that we can see Cirie's continuing short-term comments, but such is the price we pay for getting sorta good at this. Now, granted, I'm being presumptuous, but I feel confident that Parvati has to be our winner. As cl points out, we are only the result of dissecting past seasons. Each new season reinforces some old chestnuts, while there is often something new that blindsides us. Sometimes a little bit, sometimes, painfully, a lot. This season, too, may bite us on the ass, but the odds and stats are in our favor. What I really like this season is the return to a less obvious winner in the first half of the season. That is, if our plucky strumpet is the sole survivor.
SFC		#4454	[-]
Posts: 303 (05/05/08 3:16 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chaperone wrote: Edgic Winners (Percentage of winner votes received) 5.88%Amanda Kimmel Okay who did it?
unduli clone		#4455	[-]
Posts: 2741 (05/05/08 3:30 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	fat little fingers wrote: What I really like this season is the return to a less obvious winner in the first half of the season. That is, if our plucky strumpet is the sole survivor. I completely agree. I know that quite a few people (myself included - yay me, haha) picked Parvati as their pre-merge pick after Episode 7 (right before the Tracy boot). Even though Eliza was the top pick that week, 53% had already pinpointed Parvati and she became the #1 pick the episode right before the merge. Even so, the pre-merge was very back-and-forth, unlike the recent seasons, and I felt like there were multiple winner possibilities. I <3 that.
9RedWing19		#4456	[-]
Posts: 2136 (05/05/08 3:39 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'd disagree only slightly with Guat. Could have shown more of Danni, easily. It was a choice to show Steph's implosion. Take out 2-3 scenes here and there, and you still feel the same way about Steph and Danni by the end. Ageeance with OTH here. It's an editing decision of how much airtime to give to each contestant, presumably based on what the editors think will result in the most entertaining shows. On the Danni strategizing issue: I've always considered it to be post-season spin-doctoring on Danni's part. After all, any strategizing that she did would have meant squat had she lost the F3 IC (no doubt on Steph & Rafe taking each other had either won). Rafe essentially made the decisions on the F5 & F4 boots, given that Steph was not going to separate herself from him. Danni did a good job forming a bond with Rafe, and then getting a final IC that suited her bodyshape (I've always been struck by the irony of Rafe /Steph in part booting Lydia because they were worried that the F3 IC might be one that Lydia could win - Lydia would have had no chance in that challenge (which makes it a poorly designed challenge IMO, but that's another story)).
AllMenAreIslands		#4457	[-]
Posts: 23641 (05/05/08 3:54 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I am seriously having doubts about my Parvati's ability to overcome animal imagery. If the sea turtle is intended to represent Amanda, there is no way we could have predicted it by the merge. It was only in Ep 12 that it finally popped up (or was it shown earlier??) Anyway, I don't want to get too excited about the fact that so many of you are naming Parvati to win. I will get excited when she DOES win and I'm holding $190 in my hot little hands.
Francois40		#4458	[-]
Posts: 2165 (05/05/08 4:04 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I am seriously having doubts about my Parvati's ability to overcome animal imagery. If the sea turtle is intended to represent Amanda, there is no way we could have predicted it by the merge. I don't really think SEA turtles have the same"slow but sure" association that land turtles do (since they can swim pretty fast). Seems like a snail would have been easier to find out there and have the same "'message". Anyway, I'm Amanda's watchdog and don't recall any associations with sea turtles this season (though granted I've fallen down on the job in the last part of the season).
Oowatanite		#4459	[-]
Posts: 5164 (05/05/08 4:54 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AllMenAreIslands wrote: Anyway, I don't want to get too excited about the fact that so many of you are naming Parvati to win. I will get excited when she DOES win and I'm holding ~~$190~~ $125.34 after taxes, in my hot little hands. Fixed.
AllMenAreIslands		#4460	[-]
Posts: 23642 (05/05/08 5:28 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Right. Like I'd be declaring it as "income."

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S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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