Ok, where the hell did it come from?

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tacobellcanon		#61	[-]
Posts: 98 (01/03/08 3:28 PM) I don't get most of the jokes Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	^ I agree with you. He was setting Cirie up for the fall by using her as a buffer for the Shane ouster, thereby hiding behind her and directing Shane's anger more at her than at him. Either way, he wasn't a complete fool, and parts of his game were very well-crafted and well-played.
SwineForkbeard		#62	[-]
Posts: 1406 (01/03/08 5:03 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	tacobellcanon wrote: He was setting Cirie up for the fall by using her as a buffer for the Shane ouster, thereby hiding behind her and directing Shane's anger more at her than at him. What can you cite, on or off the show, that supports any of this? Aras and Cirie both backstabbed Shane. How was he hiding behind Cirie if Shane didn't realize how involved she was as a strategist until he watched the show? Didn't he think that he and Aras had "carried" her through the game? If he saw it that way, why should he have held her more responsible? Help me out here, I don't know what any of you Aras fans are talking about. This is what Aras said in the voting booth as he voted for Shane: "Shane, sorry brother, you backstabbed me, dude, and I found out. Maybe we'll get a coke afterwards." That sounds like a pretty simple rationale for voting him out, and is consistent with what Shane said in his interviews. He told Cirie that he planned to vote Aras out at F4 and she told Aras. Aras wanted to get rid of Shane because he had heard Shane wanted to get rid of him. None of you have provided any evidence that Aras did anything to make Shane more likely to give him his jury vote. Either way, he wasn't a complete fool, and parts of his game were very well-crafted and well-played. This is what I mean by vague, abstract arguments. If you can't get any more specific than that, my impression of Aras being overrated isn't likely to change.
Pulau Tiga		#63	[-]
Posts: 3426 (01/03/08 5:04 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: PT,are you suggesting that Aras is some kind of incompetent idiot? No, I'm suggesting winning was not his most important goal in the game, just like it wasn't for Colby. Based on hisinterview that he might lose,that could have been spec on his part. Of course it was. He speculated that he would lose to Cirie. Yet he still wanted to face her in the F2, even though he thought she would beat him.
JaMalle		#64	[-]
Posts: 3514 (01/03/08 5:34 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm not going to read all of these posts, but I will weigh in on the topic: F4 of Exile Island--- Cirie: Her best move is to take Danielle to the end. Unfortunately she's forced to vote against her and stick to Aras. She played the best she could, and I think she WOULD have beaten Aras. Yes, Shane/Courtney was pissed off. But really, SHANE would have voted for a '''parent''' over Aras "I live in my parents' basement" ANYDAY!!!! Let's not be delusional here guys. She would have gotten the votes of Bruce (closer to him) Shane (parent) Danielle (close friend) and Terry (who I also think would have valued Cirie's strategy and worthiness over his simple "rival", Aras). Sally and Austin are the only wild cards in this case. Terry: Danielle has already screwed him over twice, but he was forced to trust her time and time again because he had limited options. The way I see it, Danielle played Terry flawlessly. But that's besides the point, there was no way Terry could guarantee in his mind that he could cream all of Cirie/Aras/Danielle. In fact, Cirie would have given him a run for his money with Aras & Danielle in her pocket. Anyway, voting out someone that was in a known F2 pair was a smart move, because he KNEW Cirie/Aras would never take him. With Danielle, there was at least a slim chance. I think Aras is an ass, and I also don't think he was that great of a winner. Sure, call him a balance between Terry and Cirie if you want, but the truth is had Terry NOT won every single IC, Aras would have been instantly gone. It's one thing to depend on yourself to win ICs, but to have your game depend on SOMEONE ELSE?! lol The true players of EI were Cirie and Danielle and Courtney. ok I think I'm done talking crazy.
tacobellcanon		#65	[-]
Posts: 100 (01/03/08 5:44 PM) I don't get most of the jokes Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SwineForkbeard wrote: tacobellcanon wrote: He was setting Cirie up for the fall by using her as a buffer for the Shane ouster, thereby hiding behind her and directing Shane's anger more at her than at him. What can you cite, on or off the show, that supports any of this? Aras and Cirie both backstabbed Shane. How was he hiding behind Cirie if Shane didn't realize how involved she was as a strategist until he watched the show? Didn't he think that he and Aras had "carried" her through the game? If he saw it that way, why should he have held her more responsible? Help me out here, I don't know what any of you Aras fans are talking about. This is what Aras said in the voting booth as he voted for Shane: "Shane, sorry brother, you backstabbed me, dude, and I found out. Maybe we'll get a coke afterwards." That sounds like a pretty simple rationale for voting him out, and is consistent with what Shane said in his interviews. He told Cirie that he planned to vote Aras out at F4 and she told Aras. Aras wanted to get rid of Shane because he had heard Shane wanted to get rid of him. None of you have provided any evidence that Aras did anything to make Shane more likely to give him his jury vote. I think Shane's opinion of Cirie as a strategist changed the night of Courtney's boot, and that's what I'm thinking of when I say Aras was using Cirie as a buffer. Shane was pissed off as all hell after they axed Courtney, and he went to Aras first, and the first thing Aras said was that he didn't manufacture Courtney's boot - Cirie did. Then Shane went to Cirie and she buttered his ego a bit before they all pulled the rug out from underneath him. I guess it comes down to how you spin it, because had there been an Aras/Cirie F2, I would have expected Aras to very fully put the blame on Cirie for those two boots and direct the attention away from him. Fact is, I don't think it was Aras's idea to oust Courtney or Shane, but I think he used those boots to his strategic advantage by deflecting the attention away from himself, in case he and Cirie would have been in the finals together. (This is why bitter juries suck - I fully appreciate that Cirie was a more well-rounded strategist than Aras, and she probably would have lost to him anyway.) I realize this whole argument is null and void if someone does manage to prove that Aras did plan to lose to Cirie, haha. Other reasons, for me at least, why Aras is an underrated winner in my eyes: 1) Yes, the whole "held Casaya together" thing is probably over the top propaganda, but the fact is, nobody hated him. He did work at developing relationships with everyone he was there with. Yes, he made some stupid mistakes (Melinda, anyone?) but most of those mistakes (i/e getting into it with Bruce several times, then apologizing and putting the leadership on Bruce as to keep Bruce in his alliance) he was able to somewhat rectify. 2) Being intelligent enough to realize that Terry was his ticket to the win, and convincing his alliance to keep him based on "you guys won't beat Terry if I'm not here." 3) Deflecting attention away from himself as much as possible. A good one that was cited here was the coconut chop challenge. His name was always up for discussion on getting booted, but he managed to deflect that attention enough to allow him to sneak UTR somewhat. I found most impressive about his win was that he was able to convince his alliance that he, a threat, should be kept to neutralize a larger threat. And his alliance didn't realize that that was a bad idea until much, much too late. Wow, that's the most I've ever spoken here. 100th post, and I'm still a loser. =)
CSCin3D		#66	[-]
Posts: 7121 (01/03/08 5:49 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The things that you praise Aras for had all been before. There have been so many other Aras' throughout the seasons. He just lucked out by being in the dominant tribe.
JaMalle		#67	[-]
Posts: 3516 (01/03/08 5:50 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	good post taco. I don't agree with a lot of the points but they're ALL valid. Sorry, I'm too lazy to properly respond to them. haha
panurge46		#68	[-]
Posts: 793 (01/03/08 5:59 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	There were definitely two occasions that we saw Aras holding his alliance together: - After the BobDawg elimination, Shane is mad as hell with Danielle and Courtney while the girls want to use the guillotine to chop the lunatics head off. Aras forces Shane to see that if he doesn't apologize to the women, then he will have to go. Shane apologized durng their reward visit. - In the season recap, Casaya had just lost the challenge that required catching balls thrown by a catapult. Bob was saying that, as a former wide receiver, he should've been catching rather than throwing and Danielle was going off on him telling him he should have said something before. Aras was elected leader of Casaya, the one making challenge decisions. His decisions became crucial in winning tribal challenges. BTW: Aras always said that, if Terry wasn't going to win immunity, then he wanted to win it, that if the idol was to be played, he wanted to have immunity that night. That's why he competed instead of eating burgers. Except for the first few challenges when Casaya had enough targets anyway, Aras was often right behind Terry. His poorest showing was at F6 when Courtney was the last one standing but Aras wasn't bad in most challenges.
tacobellcanon		#69	[-]
Posts: 101 (01/03/08 6:00 PM) I don't get most of the jokes Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Thanks JaMalle, I understand, that post took all the energy out of me anyway haha. CSC, I'm not saying that luck wasn't involved, because luck is always involved in everyone's win ever period. I'm just saying that he didn't win on only luck, and there were other good things about his win.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#70	[-]
Posts: 2052 (01/03/08 6:49 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	CSCin3D wrote: The things that you praise Aras for had all been before. There have been so many other Aras' throughout the seasons. He just lucked out by being in the dominant tribe. Please provide some prominant examples. SWB,Aras has never exactly laid out his stratagy,but as Tacobellcanon has shown, Aras made several good plays, whether concious of it or not. If we dont know for sure,we should give him benifit of doubt until we get furthur information
This Situation		#71	[-]
Posts: 62 (01/04/08 12:12 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Remember, in the weights challenge Aras had just come back from Exile, and Courtney had less weight then he did. In the F8 challenge he was tied for second. He was second in the F5 challenge. The F10 challenge he almost certainly threw, because he wasn't La Mina's target then, Shane was. The F9 challenge he tried, but he couldn't get through the first stage because that challenge came down to him, Shane and Austin. The two skinnier guys were able to squeeze under the fence first.
This Situation		#72	[-]
Posts: 63 (01/04/08 12:15 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I forgot to add that the fact that Casaya was the dominant tribe was in large part due to Aras' personal efforts at challenges and his direction of challenge strategy. BobDawg had more strength, but really Aras was without a doubt Casaya's best all around competitor.

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