Why Did Amanda Lose?

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mtj1282		#61	[-]
Posts: 143 (12/20/07 6:59 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Real life PG and Real Life Courtney have said that PG voted for Courtney. Courtney said that PG and Frosti told Courntey how they voted. Remember anyone can on a mesage board can say they are PG when they really arent!
tullfan2		#62	[-]
Posts: 2303 (12/20/07 7:03 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	In one interview with Amanda that I read, she said that her conversation with Denise about not writing her name down was shown out of sequence and according to her happened earlier when there where 8 left. At least that explanation is consistent with her response to Denise at TC. Even if Amanda had performed better at the Final TC, she would have still lost to Todd because his final TC performance was that good. He was the more active strategist for most of the game and was principally responsible for him/Amanda/Courtney having and keeping the numbers. He deserved to win even if the misleading editing made Richard Hatch look humble in comparison. Some of his decisions (booting JR instead of James and giving James the Immunity idol) were questionable at the time but neither ended up hurting him and Amanda went along with those decisions.
Cassidy666		#63	[-]
Posts: 6661 (12/20/07 8:36 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	WylDawg wrote: From what I can assume, the jury would have still preferred Amanda over Courtney in a two way matchup. Of course. PG said she was torn between todd and Amanda but Amanda's jury speech sucked so much that she was then torn between Todd and Courtney, meaning that Courtney was her 3rd choice. And I can only assume most jurors were in the same state of mind she was. This jury wanted to reward a gamer, and Courtney was everything but a gamer. That meant that Amanda became her third choice after the jury performance. But if Amanda sucked so badly in front of the jury compared to Courtney in a 2-way matchup, it would have been a toss-up as to how PG would have voted. The person who played a more active game but didn't defend the moves she made or someone who played a passive game but was upfront about everything she did in the game? Without PG's vote Courtney already had 3 firm votes. She only would have needed one more.
Relynn		#64	[-]
Posts: 108 (12/20/07 11:01 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Amanda just completely sucked at the Final Tribal Council. What Amanda should have done was go on the offense. She should have said that Todd IS not this great strategist. That the reason Todd's here is that their tribe won most of the immunity challenges and they had a majority. She should have told the jury, and Frosti could have backed her up, that Todd and Courtney actually almost threw away this majority by talking about getting rid of JR instead of Sherea. That she actually had to sit there and tell them both that they needed the majority. She could have also mentioned (Todd's not hers, but Todd's brilliant idea to give James two immunity idols instead of just throwing the immunity challenge like she wanted to do. She could have said I know you disagreed with me Jr about throwing the challenge, but even you have to admit that it's smarter than giving the strongest physical player in the game two immunity idols) What Amanda should have said is that Todd and Courtney are here because they were on the team that had the best challenge; however, Todd and Courtney weren't even that good at challenges. She could have then said that's why we got rid of you James because we knew we couldn't beat you. She could have then mentioned that the only reason Todd and Courtney are even here is because she won the last two immunity challenges over Pei Gee and Denise. So she Amanda carried Todd and Courtney throughout the game. She could have also mentioned sure Courtney won immunity, immunity that all she had to do was sit on her butt! and she was the smallest of us all!)
TheLurkerSpeaks		#65	[-]
Posts: 1083 (12/21/07 7:58 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Quiddity wrote: TheLurkerSpeaks wrote: Technically, Craig, Jenna was persuaded that Butch was a hard worker and nobody could beat him. If there had been an F3 in Amazon, she may have suffered the same fate as Amanda. (She may have had a slight advantage over Amanda in that she hadn't actually voted off everyone on the jury.) Then again, the swing vote probably would have proven to be Dave so Jenna might still have won, barely. I'm not a Jenna fan, but let's be honest here, in a F3 with Butch and Matt, she still wins in a blow out. As stupid and clueless as Matt was when it came to Survivor, you could argue that Butch was even worse! Remember that ridiculous "chain" thing where Rob explained strategy to ultra clueless Matt, then ultra clueless Matt went and explained it to even more clueless Butch? One of the funniest things I've probably ever seen on Survivor. The manner in which the Amazon jury voted, where they had no respect whatsoever for Matt, I feel things would have gone very similar if Butch was there too. Roger - Butch Dave - Jenna Deena - Jenna Alex - Jenna Christy - Butch Heidi - Jenna Rob - Jenna Quiddity, I don't think you read my post very carefully. Jenna voted Butch out at F4. She'd have been up against Rob and Matt. In that case, Matt gets Roger and Butch. Rob gets Deena and Christy. Jenna gets Alex and Heidi. And Dave is the swing vote. I disagree with some of your conclusions anyway. Rob would never have voted for Jenna if she voted him out - he'd have voted for Matt. In real life, the reason he voted for Jenna was because he was pissed at Matt for tanking the F3 IC. Deena might not have been quite so quick to vote for Jenna either. In real life, it was her beating Matt at the F3 IC and refusing Rob's deals there that impressed Deena. While she clearly did not like Matt, she may not have minded voting for Butch. (OK, she might have still voted for Jenna, but it wouldn't have been a slam dunk.) Dave liked Butch so he would have had at least an outside shot at his vote. (And Dave was hardly a strategic player.) And this goes to show why Matt didn't stand a chance against Butch. Nobody respected Matt's gameplay, and they liked Butch better. Matt knew he needed to go against someone the jury might be bitter against, and that was Rob. (He wouldn't have won, but he'd have done better than he did against Jenna under the circumstances.)
Kirblar		#66	[-]
Posts: 5175 (12/21/07 11:00 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Deena's vote preference was Rob, then Jenna.
Lurlene McDaniels		#67	[-]
Posts: 340 (12/21/07 11:11 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Amanda just seemed way too nervous at the final tribal and was taking herself/the situation way too seriously. Courtney and Todd actually seemed to be enjoying themselves up there and acted much more confident. Personally, I'm very happy Amanda didn't win. I thought she was a snot.
Relynn		#68	[-]
Posts: 109 (12/21/07 3:37 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kirblar wrote: Deena's vote preference was Rob, then Jenna. Yeah, Deena and Jenna were actually quite friendly.. That's one thing about Jenna's game play. While she did make snobby comments, and she didn't get along with Christy. Jenny actually did have a pretty good social game. She was pretty well liked by most of the tribes people. Even Joanna said that Jenna wasn't so bad (she disliked Heidi more)
tullfan2		#69	[-]
Posts: 2305 (12/21/07 5:40 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	From the interviews that I read from both Amanda and Todd, it seems that Amanda morphed into Janu near the end. A few days too much for her, apparently.
Cassidy666		#70	[-]
Posts: 6704 (12/23/07 10:13 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	From Todd, who posted over at Sucks: supersurvivorkid wrote: 1. If Amanda voted you off at Final 4, and the Final 3 was Amanda, Courtney and Denise, who would you have voted for? And who do you think would have won? courtney would have had my vote and won 2. If you had won the final immunity, who would you have voted off? denise 3. When were you planning on voting out James? You suggested it early on, but then seemed to drop the idea until Amanda brought it up. you could only use the idols through 5, he would have gone then 4. Why did you let James have both immunity idols? Why didn't you tell him that if he found the other one he had to give you one back? didnt know it was same at zhan hu. we made a deal we were sharing the idols that wasnt shown 5. Was Amanda's ass really hanging out that much or is CBS just going crazy with the censoring lately? (Judging from this year's Victoria's Secret Fashion Show I'm guessing the later.) it wasnt too bad, but it did hang out 6. Who do think were the most deserving winners? And where do you stand among them? sandra, tom, yul, me... (i can brag, my dream just came true) 7. If Amanda had voted you out at Final 4 and then won the whole thing, do you think she would have been a more deserving winner than you? love the girl, but nobody thought she was even playing the game. we didnt know until we watched the show... so no i dont think she had a shot. 8. Do you have any idea what the jury vote tie-breaker is? no idea. maybe the third place becomes the final jury member 9. Do you know if Amanda knew whether or not she had won China when she was filming Half-ASS? Im not allowed to comment on half ass yet apparantly even though i know a bunch!! haha 10. Do you know anything about what happens on Half-ASS? Or whether Cirie is on it? read above please 11. I'm afraid to ask, but what's it like being a gay Mormon in Utah? fine. how is it not being one? 12. I thought your sister who visited you was hot. Can you hook me up? you can kiss my little white ass first.... hehe There you go. Take your time. You WILL be graded on this : ) Amanda was talking strategy only to the camera basically. Editing made her look a lot more of a contender than in reality. Her terrible jury performance simply sealed her fate.
ProbstFan123		#71	[-]
Posts: 6851 (12/27/07 9:00 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kind of the opposite of Danni, who was supposedly very strategic out there, but most of it took place off camera. Ironic since Danni and Amanda had similar edits (up until the finale anyway). I think Amanda's edit was tricky because most of her negativity (even though there wasn't a lot of it) took place in the final episode. Up until then she was looking like a possible repeat of Danni.
Kirblar		#72	[-]
Posts: 5251 (12/27/07 9:39 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The same thing happened with Vee. She pretty much won the game based on the moves she made in the finale, but didn't have much of a game up until then, always overshadowed by more dominant players.
sunsawed		#73	[-]
Posts: 7708 (12/29/07 12:57 AM) MESS SPECtrometer Emeritus Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The Irony here is so DELICIOUS. 1) Amanda lost because of the Survivor Glass Ceiling, which I posted about HERE. Men get away with a lot more to the point that the only way a woman can beat a man is for the man to SCREW UP ROYALLY. 2) But the real reason for Amanda's loss is that she played the game like MATT. Maybe now, after 3 1/2 years, you'll finally understand what the hell the Mattheads were going on about. • Amanda did play a SMARTER game than Todd, certainly more than Courtney. But the Jury simply DID NOT SEE THIS. WE got to see how Amanda played better than Todd, but the Jury did not. The private conversations between Amanda and Todd, her confessionals where we saw her reasoning and how it was superior to Todd's paranoia, we SAW that. But the Jury, obviously, had no clue. They had no idea how strongly Amanda swayed Todd, because she did that in PRIVATE. All THEY saw was Amanda as Todd's second in command, a tag-along. Likewise, in S6, the AUDIENCE got to see how it was Matt's strategy to get Rob to betray his alliance and go with him to the F2. • It was a key ingredient in BOTH players' strategy to try to HIDE how strategic they were in order to GET to the Jury. They both tried to play the game in their HEADS, hoping that the Jury would simply "get it." And both put up miserable performances at the Jury because Amanda couldn't convince anyone that she had controlled Todd any better than Matt could show how he manipulated Rob C. • Both Matt and Amanda held their games close to their chests until the Jury, then failed SPECTACULARLY to present their cases to the Jury. Even if they told the Jury what they actually had DONE, the Jury wouldn't have believed it. Too LITTLE, too late.
Cassidy666		#74	[-]
Posts: 6757 (12/29/07 6:43 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	In other words, they failed at the social aspect of Survivor. You could look at the winners and say it's slanted against one gender, but I think that really depends on the individual, not entirely on their gender. Players have to realize that they have to find the right balance. You say hiding their game-playing is smarter, but that's hardly the case if their social game doesn't give the impression that they were making decisions and making the moves, especially if their opponent's social game is much stronger. Strategy is only one aspect of the game and we all know that. That's why there's a jury in the first place.
OnlyMatthew		#75	[-]
Posts: 511 (12/29/07 8:50 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Honestly, if Amanda wanted to win, she needed to be more confident and cutthroat in her decisions. If she really was a diehard fan of Survivor, then her nice-girl instincts really took over when she was trying to play the game. The only move she had to make was cut of Todd and then show the jury how Amanda controlled Todd, not vice versa. The jury definitely wasn't too emotional (with the emotional cannons like Frosti and JR voting for the best player, not the person that we would have assumed), so they would've definitely appealed to Amanda being a strategist over Denise being "likable".
Cassidy666		#76	[-]
Posts: 6764 (12/29/07 9:57 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Once again, Todd commented on Amanda's chances of winning the game and had this to say... supersurvivorkid wrote: no i honestly dont think amanda would have won unless she was up against jean robert and sherea maybe, other than that.... zero shot. That's a pretty damn bad social game she played if that's the case.
Its A Flavin		#77	[-]
Posts: 4 (01/04/08 2:56 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	She said herself in the finale that she didn't feel she'd made connections with anyone out there, at least not in the way that Todd had.
Robert Qld		#78	[-]
Posts: 886 (01/30/08 3:48 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Since CBS seems to have finally settled on James voting for Courtney, we could assume Courtney would win with a minimum of four votes (Todd, James, Denise & Frosti).
kenc333		#79	[-]
Posts: 187 (01/30/08 4:11 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Robert Qld wrote: Since CBS seems to have finally settled on James voting for Courtney, we could assume Courtney would win with a minimum of four votes (Todd, James, Denise & Frosti). Denise wouldn't be on the jury anymore if the F3 were Amanda, Courtney and Denise. And that's assuming Frosti votes for Courtney, because if he felt betrayed by her and voted for Todd, he might've voted for Amanda in that F3. Peih-Gee said that in a A/C/D final 3, she would've voted for Amanda. So Courtney would have Todd for sure, Amanda would have Erik and Peih-Gee, Denise would have Jean-Robert. James is debatable, but probably between Courtney and Denise. This means that the game would come down to Frosti and Jaime's votes. Jaime went into the FTC with the intention of not voting for Todd, which means her vote was for Courtney or Amanda, probably Amanda, if Courtney and Jaime didn't get along. But in the end, I think an A/C/D final 3 would've ended 3-2-2 for Amanda, where she gets the Zhan Hu votes.
Robert Qld		#80	[-]
Posts: 890 (01/31/08 9:09 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	^Actually I was working of a F2 theory instead of F3.

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Why Did Amanda Lose?

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