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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
Rage against the Survivor Puritans |
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Even though it doesn't sem that way, I actually am closer to the opinions of ravu and other people on the board who didn't start with the first
season(akthough I did). I think most of you who hold opinions that are rigid and biased in favor of earlier seasons, and not only that, but only certain types
of contestents, are unfocused in your thinking, and your bias hurts you from seeing things clearly. If its on a purely subjective basis that you like certain
sseasons, thats fine. Im not a big fan of CI, but it has nothing to do with edgic or any kind of rationalizations. I just don't care for it. Even though I
do have certain "puritanical" leanings, such as favoring a character based edit scheme, 16 contestent maximums, less focus on challanges, getting rid
of the HII, etc, I don't believe that there ever was a "good old days" so to speak. Survivor is a hybrid of reality in a fantastical setting,with
fantastical editing, however they can only work with what they have. Borneo I absolutly adore, but if there were a different cast, I might like it
signiffigantly less.
Last Edited By: Dr Will Hatch two point oh 12/12/07 11:28 AM.
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Alffmix |
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"...okay."
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Survivor Boy |
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I think very rarely do you get a person who says "all the seasons pre ASS are better than post ASS".
Yes, overall I think the preASS seasons are better, but there are seasons like Thailand which I think are just as shit as seasons like Cook Islands. |
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RavuRules |
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Haha. As soon as I saw the title, I knew this was yours Will
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gibson97 |
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Here we go...another Survivor rate the seasons.
I still think pre-ass is best overall, but China seems to have infiltrated my golden 5. 1) Marquesas 2) Thailand 3) Africa 4) China 5) Pearl Islands 6) Amazon 7) Palau 8) Exile Island 9) Fiji 10) Aussie 11) Borneo 12) Vanuatu 13) Cook Islands 14) All Stars 1 15) Guatemala |
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assface killah |
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Here is the difference for me (and yes I am a puritan)...
PreAss (mainly)... I loved the show for the excitement, for the survival, the risk vs reward, and the show as a whole... the characters were a bonus. PostAss (excluding Vanuatu for me)... it is the characters which keeps me watching. Without different characters each season what are we left with? I survival show that has been there... done that... and has been done much better in the past. |
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CSCin3D |
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Will, how are you the arbiter of who's a puritan and who's not? So if you're anti F3 you're a puritan, but you are allowed to go against 16 person casts and the HII and you're supposed to be"open minded"? Anyways, the only thing that I really hate about the newer seasons are the random mactor recruits (i.e Aras, Brad, Sundra, J.P.) and the final 3 which fundamentally changed the show for the worse. I actually don't even care about the number of people or tribe switches and twists. I know that they're necessary. The only thing that I'm against is when the twist becomes the main focus of the show, like the middle of China with the HIIs. |
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ptcruisn56 |
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I kind of think of it as...
Everything besides Cook Islands and Becky > Cook Islands > Becky |
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Madhackrviper |
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I agree with Will Hatch to a certian extent
Less focus on challenges is a big one for me, god I hate most challenges |
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Lurlene McDaniels |
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X Actually, Everything besides Cook Islands, Yul and Becky > Cook Islands > Yul and Becky |
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louie77 |
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Anyways, the only thing that I really hate about the newer seasons are the random mactor recruits (i.e Aras, Brad, Sundra, J.P.)Agreed I have never been as anti final 3 as most are. It was a way to actually keep the final vote competitive and not have the most deserving player booted right before the last stage. Now of course with Yau Man, 4th has just become the old 3rd, but it still gives a better shot at a more competitive ending, so i'm all for it. |
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Madhackrviper |
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Yeah I actually like final three too
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Dictatorship |
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Anyone who is a fan of the final 3 is a complete retard.
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Madhackrviper |
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Dictatorship wrote: I agree with Probst's reasons, story over |
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Quiddity |
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My first ever episode was F8 of Vanuatu, the first season I regularly watched was Palau, and my first full season watching (and participating here) was
Guatemala. So I too due to my biases (Yes, Ravu, I admit it all the time) am one who doesn't really subscribe to the Pre-ASS rules, Post-ASS sucks
statement.
Yeah, Cook Islands and Fiji sucked. But Thailand was hardly that good either. Africa was hardly a great season, and Australis became as boring as hell after Jerri's departure. From the other side, post-ASS seasons like Vanuatu, Guatemala and China have been terrific. I've never had a problem with the larger casts. I don't mind 18 or 20 castaways at all. I only mind the double boot episodes that come with them which severly reduce the episode per castaway ratio. The editing will always be worse in an 18/20 person season if they continue to have double boot episodes. Axe the double boot episode, and the problems go away. Recruits/Mactors don't mean automatic doom. Ultra boring recruits/mactors, just like ultra boring applicants mean automatic doom. Just because someone was recruited or is a mactor doesn't mean they suck. But bringing in boring ones, or using too high of a recruit ratio (or applicant ratio one could say too, there's nothing wrong with having some recruits says I, it certainly helped Pearl Islands!) is a problem. The F3 twist is a horrible twist which I've discussed ad nauseum in other threads. Everything has to be viewed on its own merits with me. Both Pre- and Post- ASS has had its flaws. Both have had their benefits. I prefer to take it on a season by season basis. |
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RavuRules |
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I actually like Africa more than most of the pre-ASS seasons now Quid. That one has grown on me despite the rather cruddy gameplay
BTW, a lot of people forget that Palau had not just a double boot episode, but a triple one! The 1st episode had 3 boots. I actually think that the double boot episodes improve the editing doesn't it? It speeds up the elimination of extraneous castaways allowing the distribution of visibility editing to be spread out more for all the castaways. Isn't that the whole premise of people wanting smaller cast sizes? Why is it worse editing to have a double boot episode Quiddty? Also what are YOUR reasons for disliking CI AND Fiji Quiddity?
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Madhackrviper |
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Quiddity wrote: X |
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Quiddity |
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BTW, a lot of people forget that Palau had not just a double boot episode, but a triple one! The 1st episode had 3 boots. I actually think that the double boot episodes improve the editing doesn't it? It speeds up the elimination of extraneous castaways allowing the distribution of visibility editing to be spread out more for all the castaways. Isn't that the whole premise of people wanting smaller cast sizes? Why is it worse editing to have a double boot episode Quiddty? Indeed, you're correct. Palau had major flaws in its editing with me, almost as bad as Cook Islands. I dislike the double boots because it gives us a lot less overall time for the castaways. I won't go through every season, but I know I pointed out the person per episode ratios to you in another thread a while back, and the Cook Islands person per episode ratio was way down, which was probably a major reason why people like Becky got so screwed by the producers into being ultra invisible. Standard, 16 person season with no double boot episodes and a F4 finale: 13 episodes / 16 castaways = 0.8125 episodes per castaway Cook Islands, 20 persons with 2 double boot episodes and a F5 finale: 14 episodes / 20 castaways = 0.7 episodes per castaway And that doesn't take into account the fact that the double boot episode itself has two tribal councils and usually a more complicated than usual challenge which reduces even more the time we have for confessionals and events at camp. Just think if Cook Islands had no double boot episodes and a F4. That'd be 3 more complete episodes. Think of all the extra time that'd have given us to have more time for Becky, Sundra, Brad, Rebecca and others who came off as very invisible in the editing. The season could have been so much better without them IMHO. ETA: I know some people think things would drag out too long if there were no pre-merge double boot episodes, but I think certain twists could be utilized (yes, I don't hate all twists :P) to liven things up. An early merge at 12 for example. I'm a huge Survivor fan, I always want more episodes then what we get. I always want seasons to last longer than they do. It astounds me that they willingly give up multiple new episodes that could be used to draw in big ratings in order to have double boot episodes.
C'mon Ravu, you fully know why I dislike Cook Islands so much. :P My main gripe with Fiji has always been the Haves/Have Not twist. I just typed a long rant about it in another thread just a few days ago. Earl was extremely obvious to all as the winner by episode 4 or 5 at the latest and that was not using edgic or any other overly complicated editing analysis. While I felt the editing was somewhat better than Cook Islands, we still had people like Lilliana, Stacy and Rita that had very bad edits. I missed the family visit. While the F3 twist worked out great in Cook Islands, it completely backfired in Fiji and resulted in a F3 where we knew the second the jury questioning started that not only would Earl win, but that he would get all 9 jury votes. That's about it in a nutshell.
Last Edited By: Quiddity
12/12/07 7:46 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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RavuRules |
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Indeed, you're correct. Palau had major flaws in its editing with me, almost as bad as Cook Islands. I dislike the double boots because it gives us a lot less overall time for the castaways. I won't go through every season, but I know I pointed out the person per episode ratios to you in another thread a while back, and the Cook Islands person per episode ratio was way down, which was probably a major reason why people like Becky got so screwed by the producers into being ultra invisible. That math seems inaccurate though. You can't really just do 13/16 and 14/20 because the double boot episodes screws up the pace and ratios of visibility. It'd be better if we had visibility charts, which I'm hoping the edgic people used to get their rankings, so we can assess their methodology C'mon Ravu, you fully know why I dislike Cook Islands so much. :P Actually I don't. All the CI haters sort of mesh together for me lol My main gripe with Fiji has always been the Haves/Have Not twist. I just typed a long rant about it in another thread just a few days ago. Earl was extremely obvious to all as the winner by episode 4 or 5 at the latest and that was not using edgic or any other overly complicated editing analysis. While I felt the editing was somewhat better than Cook Islands, we still had people like Lilliana, Stacy and Rita that had very bad edits. I missed the family visit. While the F3 twist worked out great in Cook Islands, it completely backfired in Fiji and resulted in a F3 where we knew the second the jury questioning started that not only would Earl win, but that he would get all 9 jury votes. That's about it in a nutshell. So why don't you like CI? You explained that you don't have the lame excuses that most people have brought up in the past (I don't remember if you always felt this way or changed), so what ARE the reasons why you don't like CI? I'm guessing editing, but I'd like to know specifics, so we can argue
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molemantn |
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Please don't tell him Quid, I don't want this to be the 14th thread with everyone vs. Ravu on the quality of CI.
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XtremeInnovator420 |
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Is the general Sucks opinion that Cook Islands is better than Fiji?
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