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solesurvivor01 |
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^Another problem with casting people who don't know shit about the game. People like Amanda and Todd probably realize that just because a guy is big,
strong, and buff, he's not automatically a challenge threat. Look at the merge episode for example; Jaime isn't as physically strong as Erik, but she
was voted off before him because she was a big strategical threat.
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chapera rocks |
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Alpha 0Mega X wrote: No, a trivia contest, weapons challenge, memory challenge etc are not geared towards one gender or the other.
Actually it isn't the same because at the Final 3 TC, the jury cannot vote out the contestant that won the Final 3 IC. Also the Final TC would go back to the original format where the jury can question both finalists which is far superior to that of the last 2 seasons.They used that format for pirate master and we saw how well that worked out. |
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Quiddity |
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To be clear Quiddity, I don't really care for or against F3. I've just accepted it and moved on. I was just stating that was the producers' logic for implementing the F3 twist, and given the string of decisive victories or blow-outs since Thailand, and perhaps starting as early as Africa or Amazon, I can understand why they did what they did Yeah, I know that was their logic behind it. The problem is, their 'solution' to fix their perception of blow outs created even bigger problems, the worst of which (the pre-merge jury members) is thankfully now gone. And while admittingly we don't have a huge sample size yet, I don't think the F3 is going to make any difference with respect to the common practice of bringing lesser liked people to the end with you. In terms of CI, that season did not necessarily need Yul and Ozzy for the close vote. If we had a different combination of people, even Sundra and Becky, the vote still might have been close. If we have Candice-Paravti-Sundra for instance, the voting dynamic might very well have been something like 2-3-4. There were no real goats in CI, only circumstantial ones Yes, you're right that Yul/Ozzy wouldn't be the only close vote, Becky/Sundra certainly could have been one too. I think either one of the guys against either one of the women would have been a huge blow out. And it was almost 100% going to end up that way if there was a F2. Which is why at the time, as a one time twist I didn't particularly have a problem with the F3 thing. Saved the season. As a permanent change, can't stand it. And yes, you're right, none of the F4, in fact none of the F6 in CI were goats. The purpose of the F3 twist was to eliminate the strategy of "goat-taking" which has arguably worked. The problem with Fiji, was that the goats took themselves! They were the overt controllers that strung Earl and Yau-Man along, not the other way around. This non-stop talk of goat-taking requires me to stop for a second and blow up this common misconception about the game. Aren't you one who has argued against labelling everyone a goat before Ravu, saying there's only one true goat a season? Maybe I'm mistaken. Anyway, let's take a look at just how foolish this 'goat-taking' talk is. Amazon: Yeah, Matt was definately a goat. And was definately dragged along, although by Rob, not Jenna. Won't argue here. Pearl Islands: For someone who was labelled as being dragged, Lil was actually the most consistent and powerful voter post-merge. The only who was not blindsided by a single vote post-merge. Everyone she wanted to go left. And she wasn't dragged to the F2 as she won the final challenge. So while Lill was a goat, she definately wasn't dragged to the end. Vanuatu: Twila had a lot of power, and likewise wasn't dragged to the end. And yeah, she pissed off a lot of people, but so did Chris, by brutally backstabbing Julie and Eliza in the way he did. Scout was despised by much of the jury too. All of the F3 could be labelled goats. Palau: No arguing here, Katie was ultra goat, and was dragged through the entire game by Ian and Tom. Guatemala: Stephenie was in the leadership position with Rafe and Danni was in the minority most of the post-merge. Any notion that Danni dragged Steph as a goat to the F2 is completely wrong. Exile Island: Danielle wasn't a goat. She wasn't going to win a jury vote against the other 3 members of the F4, but had she not voted out Courtney and Shane, she doesn't even make it that far in the first place. She was in a power position, and won the final challenge, so she certainly wasn't dragged there. Had she simply treated Austin and Sally a little better she could have won. So for all these goats that were supposedly 'taken' or 'dragged' through the game, the real fact of the matter is that most of them weren't dragged through the game at all but were actually in power positions throughout most of the post merge which is why they got so far. Matt and Katie were the only ones who were dragged through the game. While Yau did get screwed as a jury threat at F4, the twist isn't meant to protect all the people with high jury chances, but to weaken the incentives to take a goat merely for the sake of increasing one's final jury chances. Like I just mentioned, most of these so alled goats weren't dragged through the game, that's just a common misconception. This twist doesn't weaken the incentives to take a goat at all. When it comes to those all important votes just before the final vote, the more liked people are still going to be voted out just like Yaoman.
I don't think it will make any difference. In the long run we'll still have goats at the end, we'll still have obvious winners before the final vote, and with F3 we'll have one less episode, and less time for jury speeches. |
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Alpha 0Mega X |
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chapera rocks wrote: The challenges aren't geared towards either gender but the lack of physical challenges favors females more since it takes away an alpha male's strength. The men are usually the biggest targets at a merge even when they're not necessarily the best in challenges. By making an effort to not include physical challenges it leaves them as total targets like being an All-Star. Then it becomes like Big Brother. Who can throw the most challenges which is really boring |
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Pulau Tiga |
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Alpha 0Mega X wrote:It puts them on a level playing field. When anyone can win the challenges, nobody has the advantage, and nobody is favored. Granted, alpha males are still going to be considered threats because post-merge immunities have been geared to them for so long. But if the pattern continues and the ICs continue to be similar to the ones we've had in China, then the whole idea of a challenge threat deterioriates a little, which I really like. |
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CoconutPhone |
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and with F3 we'll have one less episode, and less time for jury speeches.Will we? I don't think having F3 changes the ep number since the finale has always (with one, maybe 2 exceptions) been F4. Instead of voting 2 people out they only vote one. Doesn't affect the number of episodes at all. |
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tullfan2 |
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chapera rocks wrote: Yes, but Jay has only himself to blame when he voted to cut Louie adrift rather than Ben his biggest competition in the expeditions. That was a strategic blunder in the endgame. |
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Quiddity |
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CoconutPhone wrote: No, both times they had the F3 they had 5 people in the finale instead of 4. In CI and Fiji it was one of many factors in there being such horrific editing because the amount of available time per castaway was so low. Dunno about the finale date this year, hopefully its not F5 for the finale again this time. |
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CSCin3D |
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I'm pretty sure it's an F4 finale, but that means only one non-final TC, which was a big complaint about the Outback finale. They'll probably throw
in a lame RC.
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chapera rocks |
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Finale is final 4 this season. Thank goodness.
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Us Kids Know |
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CSCin3D wrote: I didn't like that Outback only had 1 boot in it, but I hated the final immunity challenge more. Final immunity challenge not being endurance = suckage and non-drama. |
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aboutbreakingrules |
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Quiddity wrote:Then explain to me why Stephenie wasn't voted out at the F4 when Rafe won immunity. Danni had to know Lydia was one of the physically weakest of their season, possibly on a par with Scout (F3, S9). And given Stephenie's track record with her fellows (especially the first four jurors), Danni had to know a critical mass would hate Stephenie's guts to the point where whomever sat next to the golden goddess would be able to steamroll their way to the gold without breaking a sweat.
Last Edited By: aboutbreakingrules
12/03/07 12:44 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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7neves7 |
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The final 3 was the worst idea for survivor ever. I just wish it would go back to straight up final 2. The final 3 endurance was one of the best parts of the
show in my eyes. There is going to be a goat no matter how many people are in the finals.
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Jericoholic43 |
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I think people are assuming dragging two goats to the final 3 is easy. It hasnt intentionally happened yet. Earl may have had an idea just based on math but
there was no way for him to know for sure...especially at the begining of the game. I dont care what anyone says...He didnt go into Figi with the strategy of
bringing to goats to the finals because he didnt even know there was a final 3 till much later in the game if at all.
Ill save my opinion on the matter untill we see a few examples of players playing with the Final 3 knowledge. That is when we will see the adjustment in strategy from the players. |
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Francois40 |
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Also the Final TC would go back to the original format where the jury can question both finalists which is far superior to that of the last 2 seasons. They questioned everyone before, but not all of the jury questions were shown (which is
MY biggest beef with F3). With fewer jurors now, I hope at least we'll get to see edited versions of almost all of the question/answers.
Is that certain? Yay! So the Finale is not next Sunday, but the 16th? Great--I won't have to leave a Christmas party early :) |
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PrettyGoodYear1988 |
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A finale with only one non-final TC will be a little boring. There will probably be an RC like there was in the Exile Island finale (which technically only
featured the F3 since Cirie was gone in the first five minutes). That's what I'm hoping at least, since the Outback finale sucked because it only had
one challenge (and it was a quiz challenge at that).
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growsonwalls |
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I also don't like the fact that some jury members didn't even get the chance to live/interact with a or more members of the final 3. Other than bitter jurors telling you that so on or so on was a complete c.unt/dick, it seems like you don't have a whole lot of information to base your vote on.Word to that. Brad never spent a day with Ozzy, Rebecca never spent a day with Yul OR Ozzy really, and I forgot with Fiji who hadn't spent a day with who. But it's so stupid, the point of the jury questioning is sometimes to settle scores. Last year Alex was screaming at people he barely knew. It's ridiculous. |
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Pulau Tiga |
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The extra 3 jurors in CI helped Ozzy out a lot, because the fact that Brad/Rebecca/Jenny had never really played the strategic game with Yul but had gotten their asses kicked by Ozzy in challenges led to 2 of the 3 of them favoring the guy with strengths they actually witnessed instead of the guy with strengths they never got to see with their own eyes (fortunately, Brad had that early alliance with Yul, or else Ozzy would have won 5-4 simply because 3 of his votes came from jurors without any sort of perspective on the final players). |
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Kirblar |
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growsonwalls wrote: Uh, Alex spent all of his time with Dreamz, and most with Cassandra.
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CSCin3D |
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Tonight brought to light another reason why F3 (when people already know about it) sucks. Towards the endgame, people will be less likely to flip since their
chances of going before the jury are greater.
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