S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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FallenTorch.fantasygamescen...		#2741	[-]
Posts: 223 (11/08/09 3:50 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	guatemala fanfic wrote: Sorry if I forget some names, but someone a few pages back wrote up a great line of reasoning connecting Russell H to the guidelines. His edit may not be entirely orthodox Edgic, but we certainly know who he is, and we can't see him winning, which provides us with all the doubt in the world. Yes, he may have too much screentime, but it makes sense. Russell is any editor's wet dream, so there is no way he can be counted out. That was Werwanderflugen. Thank you gf!
unduli clone		#2742	[-]
Posts: 7730 (11/08/09 3:55 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Archibald C wrote: unduli clone wrote: Where is Natalie's story arc coming from??? The little I've seen from her, I love her to death, but I just.don't.understand. where we're getting this storyline of her being a covert mastermind who will overthrow Russell from, other than about three sentences, which really isn't enough to make a story, in my opinion. Her story arch comes from Russell naming her "The Even Dumber Long Haired Blond", and saying that his strategy was to bring her to the end and then claim that she was riding coattails. Then we have Natalie saying that in fact she was going to the end with Russell because she knew she could beat him because he was an asshole, and she was playing a strong social game. Following that comment, she went from being almost invisible, to having scenes being friends with Ashley, befriending Laura to curry favor at Galu, and then finally, in this episode, taking matters into her own hands by getting Erik voted out, using her relationship with the Galu girls (who Russell wanted to vote out) as leverage. Also we had Russell telling her that she most likely didn't get them to turn, repeating his views that she's mostly there to make friends with people and not actually play a strategic game, and then having him proved wrong when her plan came to fruition. Russell naming her "The Even Dumber Long Haired Blond": The biggest whole in your entire argument. We don't even know Natalie's name from the first episode, other than when Jeff said it at the pick-'em, if he even did. If the editors really cared about her, they'd have given her at least a confessional then, like Marisa and Ashley, the other two dumb blondes, got. Then: Yes, then, as in four episodes into the season after being completely ignored. being almost invisible: In the famous words of Natalie-esque non-winner Cassandra, "mhm." to curry favor at Galu: While this is potentially what Natalie was doing, we did not receive editing to tell us this. Your argument is based primarily on logic of footage, not logic of editing. Thanks for being very cordial and informative though. It's nice to have mature debates, which seems to get rarer and rarer here as the seasons go on. <3 Oowatanite wrote: Unduli rocks !! FallenTorch wrote: I don't post too often in this thread but just wanted to add my two cents... After episode 3, nearly everyone had eliminated Natalie. Thematically, I think Natalie might be our winner. So if I panurge, or using the great thread he has every season on themes, well then I could understand the Natalie support. But looking at things thematically, I've noticed the last few seasons with themes predicting Stephen or Erinn as the winner, that one can't pinpoint how a theme will affect the game until after the season is over. Edgically, there is NO reason why there should be any support for Natalie. Isn't one of the major fundamental aspects of Edgic being shown in the first episode and having some at least limited development in the beginning of the season. Natalie had none of this. Sure, Natalie might be a new winner type or whatever people are talking about, but Natalie fits no viable Edgic guidelines. So until Natalie wins, any discussion about her winning should stay in a thematic thread or someother spec thread because no one has provided any solid line of reasoning on why someone who has been both invisible and not developed at all at the beginning of the season can win edgically. This is because its not possible. Natalie may be a finalist. She may do some great shit, but she's not winning ACCORDING TO EDGIC and last time I checked that's what this topic is called. [...] Mick has flaws. No one's edit is perfect, but if Russell doesn't win, then this season will go to Mick. With that, I am sticking with Mick as my winner. Russell H second. Jaison for a dark horse. And Natalie as a winner only if you factor Edgic completely out of the equation. And that's not what this thread is for. Why didn't you post about two pages ago and save me all the trouble?!
BlakeB717		#2743	[-]
Posts: 2165 (11/08/09 3:57 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Archibald C wrote: Okay, I'll be moving my discussion over to the theme thread. The only reason I brought it up in here was to talk about the possibility of a non-edgically viable winner, and clearly the conversation spiraled into something larger. Buh-Bye now! You don't come to an Edgic thread and talk about an edgically inviable winner. What the fuck is that? Are you allowed to post speculation in spoiler boards? Nope. Are you allowed to post spoilers in the speculation boards? Nope (though I'm guessing some are). Should you be allowed to post regarding why Edgic won't work in an Edgic thread? Probably shouldn't. Like SurvivorGuy said, we won't know until the season is over. We've yet to have a season go that way, so I'm doubting it'll happen :)
BlakeB717		#2744	[-]
Posts: 2166 (11/08/09 4:01 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	unduli clone wrote: Archibald C wrote: unduli clone wrote: Where is Natalie's story arc coming from??? The little I've seen from her, I love her to death, but I just.don't.understand. where we're getting this storyline of her being a covert mastermind who will overthrow Russell from, other than about three sentences, which really isn't enough to make a story, in my opinion. Her story arch comes from Russell naming her "The Even Dumber Long Haired Blond", and saying that his strategy was to bring her to the end and then claim that she was riding coattails. Then we have Natalie saying that in fact she was going to the end with Russell because she knew she could beat him because he was an asshole, and she was playing a strong social game. Following that comment, she went from being almost invisible, to having scenes being friends with Ashley, befriending Laura to curry favor at Galu, and then finally, in this episode, taking matters into her own hands by getting Erik voted out, using her relationship with the Galu girls (who Russell wanted to vote out) as leverage. Also we had Russell telling her that she most likely didn't get them to turn, repeating his views that she's mostly there to make friends with people and not actually play a strategic game, and then having him proved wrong when her plan came to fruition. Russell naming her "The Even Dumber Long Haired Blond": The biggest whole in your entire argument. We don't even know Natalie's name from the first episode, other than when Jeff said it at the pick-'em, if he even did. If the editors really cared about her, they'd have given her at least a confessional then, like Marisa and Ashley, the other two dumb blondes, got. Then: Yes, then, as in four episodes into the season after being completely ignored. being almost invisible: In the famous words of Natalie-esque non-winner Cassandra, "mhm." to curry favor at Galu: While this is potentially what Natalie was doing, we did not receive editing to tell us this. Your argument is based primarily on logic of footage, not logic of editing. Thanks for being very cordial and informative though. It's nice to have mature debates, which seems to get rarer and rarer here as the seasons go on. <3 Oowatanite wrote: Unduli rocks !! FallenTorch wrote: I don't post too often in this thread but just wanted to add my two cents... After episode 3, nearly everyone had eliminated Natalie. Thematically, I think Natalie might be our winner. So if I panurge, or using the great thread he has every season on themes, well then I could understand the Natalie support. But looking at things thematically, I've noticed the last few seasons with themes predicting Stephen or Erinn as the winner, that one can't pinpoint how a theme will affect the game until after the season is over. Edgically, there is NO reason why there should be any support for Natalie. Isn't one of the major fundamental aspects of Edgic being shown in the first episode and having some at least limited development in the beginning of the season. Natalie had none of this. Sure, Natalie might be a new winner type or whatever people are talking about, but Natalie fits no viable Edgic guidelines. So until Natalie wins, any discussion about her winning should stay in a thematic thread or someother spec thread because no one has provided any solid line of reasoning on why someone who has been both invisible and not developed at all at the beginning of the season can win edgically. This is because its not possible. Natalie may be a finalist. She may do some great shit, but she's not winning ACCORDING TO EDGIC and last time I checked that's what this topic is called. [...] Mick has flaws. No one's edit is perfect, but if Russell doesn't win, then this season will go to Mick. With that, I am sticking with Mick as my winner. Russell H second. Jaison for a dark horse. And Natalie as a winner only if you factor Edgic completely out of the equation. And that's not what this thread is for. Why didn't you post about two pages ago and save me all the trouble?! X to pretty much all of this. Sidenote: Save YOU all the trouble unduli? Where were YOU BOTH days ago!? Blake needed some back-up :-( Apparently I'm Satan for saying anti-Edgic discussion belongs outside of the Edgic forum.. but you guys got one to leave, so that leaves how many trolls to go? Oh, and most importantly... Thank you!
augustus713		#2745	[-]
Posts: 171 (11/08/09 4:02 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: Time to count up everyone's winner picks. EvilRuss - Astro, Mick - Blake, OTH, Natalie - gr, Jaison - Kitty, Monica - Shambo - Anyone else wishing to state their winner pick, please do so in this thread, and I will add them to the tally. Russell
getting real		#2746	[-]
Posts: 1866 (11/08/09 4:12 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: getting real wrote: I love the way the page total in this thread is swelling artficially by reams of circular aguments and pychedelic, psychosis-induced color fonts. All because the season is not being edited to 'normal' editing patterns. The colors was just an easier way to respond, since I didn't feel like quoting. That was you? We won't know if the season is being edited to "normal editing patterns" until the finale. If you can't tell that this season is not being edited to 'normal editing patterns' by now, then there's no point in the discussion at all. There is no common ground at all that we can even use as a starting point.
SurvivorGuy24		#2747	[-]
Posts: 1085 (11/08/09 4:14 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Since there is at least one edgically viable player left, then yes, until otherwise proven this season is being edited "normally". It may not be edited well, but that's a different kettle of fish altogether.
McPhever224		#2748	[-]
Posts: 373 (11/08/09 4:16 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	augustus713 wrote: Oowatanite wrote: Time to count up everyone's winner picks. EvilRuss - Astro, Mick - Blake, OTH, Natalie - gr, Jaison - Kitty, Monica - Shambo - Anyone else wishing to state their winner pick, please do so in this thread, and I will add them to the tally. Russell Natalie
Archibald C		#2749	[-]
Posts: 132 (11/08/09 4:22 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: Archibald C wrote: Okay, I'll be moving my discussion over to the theme thread. The only reason I brought it up in here was to talk about the possibility of a non-edgically viable winner, and clearly the conversation spiraled into something larger. Buh-Bye now! You don't come to an Edgic thread and talk about an edgically inviable winner. What the fuck is that? Are you allowed to post speculation in spoiler boards? Nope. Are you allowed to post spoilers in the speculation boards? Nope (though I'm guessing some are). Should you be allowed to post regarding why Edgic won't work in an Edgic thread? Probably shouldn't. Like SurvivorGuy said, we won't know until the season is over. We've yet to have a season go that way, so I'm doubting it'll happen :) I came into this thread to discuss edgic and how it applies to this season, my view being that I think it might result in something that bends the edgic guidelines. In giving my evidence, the discussion turned into something else completely. As long as this thread is called "Season 19 Edgic", I think all topics involving edgic should be discussed in here, whether or not you like the discussion. And on a side note, the way you talk to people is not going to win you any friends. I realize that this is an internet forum, but there is no reason for you to talk to people like that, especially when most other people in this thread have managed to keep things surprisingly civil. It's just uncalled for.
unduli clone		#2750	[-]
Posts: 7731 (11/08/09 4:26 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: Archibald C wrote: Okay, I'll be moving my discussion over to the theme thread. The only reason I brought it up in here was to talk about the possibility of a non-edgically viable winner, and clearly the conversation spiraled into something larger. Buh-Bye now! You don't come to an Edgic thread and talk about an edgically inviable winner. What the fuck is that? Are you allowed to post speculation in spoiler boards? Nope. Are you allowed to post spoilers in the speculation boards? Nope (though I'm guessing some are). Should you be allowed to post regarding why Edgic won't work in an Edgic thread? Probably shouldn't. Like SurvivorGuy said, we won't know until the season is over. We've yet to have a season go that way, so I'm doubting it'll happen :) Come now Blake, that's pretty much completely uncalled for. I think his opinion is ridiculous in light of Edgic, but there's no need to rant on him, especially on his way out. sigh BlakeB717 wrote: Sidenote: Save YOU all the trouble unduli? Where were YOU BOTH days ago!? Blake needed some back-up :-( Apparently I'm Satan for saying anti-Edgic discussion belongs outside of the Edgic forum.. but you guys got one to leave, so that leaves how many trolls to go? Oh, and most importantly... Thank you! Yeah, I was busy with work/school and figured I'd wait for the major Mick meltdowns until after I began posting. Usually those who swing by to say "haha you suck" burn out after the first few days anyway and we're left with the more adamant (dis)believers. Phoenix, let me know if Crystal PM's you about those who are obviously reading spoilers. Having read one myself, I feel pretty certain about pinning down some who read spoilers as well.
BlakeB717		#2751	[-]
Posts: 2167 (11/08/09 4:30 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	unduli clone wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: Archibald C wrote: Okay, I'll be moving my discussion over to the theme thread. The only reason I brought it up in here was to talk about the possibility of a non-edgically viable winner, and clearly the conversation spiraled into something larger. Buh-Bye now! You don't come to an Edgic thread and talk about an edgically inviable winner. What the fuck is that? Are you allowed to post speculation in spoiler boards? Nope. Are you allowed to post spoilers in the speculation boards? Nope (though I'm guessing some are). Should you be allowed to post regarding why Edgic won't work in an Edgic thread? Probably shouldn't. Like SurvivorGuy said, we won't know until the season is over. We've yet to have a season go that way, so I'm doubting it'll happen :) Come now Blake, that's pretty much completely uncalled for. I think his opinion is ridiculous in light of Edgic, but there's no need to rant on him, especially on his way out. sigh Hey, he drove me nuts! They all are! I should sue for pain and suffering... =P
ncassaro		#2752	[-]
Posts: 1684 (11/08/09 4:32 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	CrystalOwnage wrote: I'm just gonna say this again... It's very obvious who here has read the spoilers X Y'all should be ashamed!
RobVanStratus		#2753	[-]
Posts: 9432 (11/08/09 4:52 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sorry I've been missing in action for a few weeks, I was not on my laptop because it was getting fixed so I didn't have access to my chart. I'll post my chart first, as usual I'm going to spoiler tag it because I have my winner pick in there because I have read spoilers. I again remind you all that spoilers don't dictate my picks, but to be safe I'd prefer to tag mine so no one can claim I spoiled them. Spoiler [+] I'm personally down to one pick for the winner, Russell H. Mick is way too MOR and hasn't had any complexity, he's just there. He's like Marcus, except he's not a douchebag. Seems like he is being set up as the winner we'd expect, just so the rug can be pulled out at the last minute on us at the finale. I would put Natalie in my winner pick as #2, except she has the INV. If she didn't have that, she'd easily be #2. I know I had Ashley as a winner pick after her INV ep4, but Ashley just had way more to work with in comparison to Natalie and she could have easily stayed a top winner pick. Shambo is knocked off my winner list because she just had such an odd merge and she's way too out of touch with the tribe to win. There's no set-up anywhere for a redemption for her from Galu, they are all hating on her and calling her stupid. She's gonna be the loveable player that makes the end. As for others picking Jaison to win, that's an odd choice. His quitting was a theme for him in the early episodes and it just keeps rearing it's ugly head with all his whining about the game. If he won, I'd be really shocked. John/Laura are two others that have interesting edits but like Natalie, have the INV thrown in there that kills their winner chances. Laura would be an interesting win because she was quiet early on and has turned into this huge strategist, but the first episode INV just kills her for me. So I'm sticking with Russell as my winner. He does have super high visibility in comparison to other in your face strategists that won, Richard/Brian/Todd, but this season is totally all about him. If he won, this is exactly how I'd expect the editors to deal with him. He's just so over the top but involved in everything, it's impossible to not include him.
BlakeB717		#2754	[-]
Posts: 2168 (11/08/09 4:57 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Nice to have you back RVS. I was actually wondering where you went.
BlakeB717		#2755	[-]
Posts: 2169 (11/08/09 5:09 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Personal Chart Update:
Katy Carney		#2756	[-]
Posts: 9363 (11/08/09 5:15 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: Natalie up against UTR-ish winners: This comparison actually looks a lot BETTER than I expected it to. I wonder what Danni, Bob or Amber's charts would've looked like if they had won seasons with Russell H in their season.
SurvivorGuy24		#2757	[-]
Posts: 1087 (11/08/09 5:18 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Probably the same, since Danni had Steph, Bob had Sugar and Amber had Rob. All screentime hogs.
Katy Carney		#2758	[-]
Posts: 9364 (11/08/09 5:22 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't think that any of them compare to Russell in that department. What's interesting though is that in all three of those cases the screentime hog lost and there was an "UTR-ish winner".
SurvivorGuy24		#2759	[-]
Posts: 1088 (11/08/09 5:24 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yeah, but sometimes the screentime hog wins - Todd, Rich, Tom, Yul, Earl, JT.
rioothello		#2760	[-]
Posts: 35 (11/08/09 5:33 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SurvivorGuy24 wrote: Yeah, but sometimes the screentime hog wins - Todd, Rich, Tom, Yul, Earl, JT. I thought Coach was the screentime hog in Tocantins...

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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