S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

0 Kudo

Started By	Comment
CrystalOwnage		#2721	[-]
Posts: 5334 (11/08/09 3:15 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	How about everyone makes their pick like Oo suggested? People who are right can do the whole, "I TOLD YOU SO" act at the end of the season
rioothello		#2722	[-]
Posts: 33 (11/08/09 3:18 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: astroline wrote: Blake, whatever. I'm done with this. I'm done with you making me feel stupid and like I don't belong in here when I try my hardest to prove my points and make reasonable, insightful posts. It's like I'm a student and you're the professor just giving me D's whenever you see my name at the top of a paper. Have fun when Mick wins, I'm sure it'll be as good as when Marcus won. Hmmm, I think my post was fairly logical and fair. I didn't call anybody stupid or use any cuss words. I simply explained where I was confused and why I was confused. It's responses like these that tell me that my arguments have validity because they can't be refuted. It's like when someone says "Whatever" in an argument: they're wrong and out of points. Oh, and keep in mind everyone, I tried very, very hard not to laugh in Erinn-supporters faces (then again, there weren't that many) after the finale last season. I intend to keep and post everything you say about Natalie or RussellH winning and me being dumbfounded over a Mick win. :) It should be fun!! Blake, you think that anybody who doesn't agree with you is automatically a retard.
unduli clone		#2723	[-]
Posts: 7728 (11/08/09 3:18 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Archibald C wrote: SurvivorGuy24 wrote: So why is there no "wiggle room" for Jaison? Why only Natalie? Well, first, I don't think that Jaison is someone who was ever eliminated edgically, but because he was getting a loser's edit (loser both in life, and the game). I didn't think he had a shot in the dark until his strong merge episode, but I've reopened his file so to speak. I think he'd have to have an incredible edit all the end, but we've seen stranger things. I guess to answer directly the question I think you're asking, I'm more willing to say Natalie is the winner after a crummy first three episodes over Jaison and his off and on loser edit because even though it's totally unprecedented to have a winner that was very UTR in the first three episodes, it's much more likely that the editors would do that than give us a winner that is shown saying he wants to quit, that being on Survivor is the dumbest decision he ever made, and completely giving up in a crucial immunity challenge. And Natalie has a story arch, while Jaison seems to have a story wavelength, going from highs (telling Ben off, helping overturn the Galu majority at the merge, standing up to Erik), to bitter lows (the examples I gave before). And to address why I'm throwing my weight behind Natalie, it is because she's the only person who is even slightly edgically viable (meaning, not Brett or Kelly, or Shambo to a certain extent) who has a story arch, and one that is all about over coming some obstacle to win. Everyone is is pretty flat, even Russell. Think about how many times we've gotten the almost exact same confessional from him; even at the merge he hasn't changed his game one bit. Natalie on the other hand, we can see evolving from riding Russell's coattails, to taking the game into her own hands. Does that make sense, or do you want me to explain more? Where is Natalie's story arc coming from??? The little I've seen from her, I love her to death, but I just.don't.understand. where we're getting this storyline of her being a covert mastermind who will overthrow Russell from, other than about three sentences, which really isn't enough to make a story, in my opinion.
BlakeB717		#2724	[-]
Posts: 2160 (11/08/09 3:25 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	astroline wrote: No, you were being bitchy when you firstly stated, "Thank you for that excellent post gff :) I agree with everything." And then, right after, "Astro, I think it's annoying that you're saying..." and going on to completely tear my post apart. There are only a handful of us here that actually make long, insightful posts, so it'd be nice if you could at least appreciate that. You were saying to everyone that GF's post was much better than mine when I think we both made good points. Because you think so inside the box, anyone that doesn't agree with you is immediately an idiot. Tina had an INV1 in the premiere, the only winner ever to have that, and so because of that, everyone automatically writes off anyone who has an INV1 in the premiere as well. Yet one season later, Ethan was the only winner with an UTR1 at the merge, and that was 16 seasons ago. If we're eliminating people as winners with an INV1 premiere, we need to be eliminating people with UTR1's at the merge as well, because each has only happened ONCE to a winner and they were both 16-17 seasons ago and most likely deliberate choices. Why do you keep bringing up Natalie when "refuting" every point I've ever made in my life (ever)? She's not even on my fucking winner's list, she was barely #4 for 2 weeks and I never voted for her and I still won't. MY PICK IS RUSSELL H. Leave the Natalie shit for others who think she's going to win. We can't predict Edgic anomalies. Before Danni, there was no Danni. Before Bob, there was no Bob. You're not prepared to say something like "Before Russell/Natalie/Jaison/Shambo, there was no Russell/Natalie/Jaison/Shambo." You're prepared to say, "It's Mick, you dumb fucks. Listen to me or else you're wrong and I'm going to rip you apart at every chance I get, just like how when Marcus won! DUH!" Your thinking is so inside the box that you can't even begin to anticipate a winner that is unprecedented, and that's what I was trying to explain. You can "follow Edgic" and the "past patterns on the front page" and pick Marcus again with 98% of the votes, when we missed Bob because we were too busy looking for an edit similar to other winners. You're following everything completely literally and it's going to be the same thing that happened with Marcus, Stephen, Amanda. I'll repeat those 3 names as much as I want because I totally expect Mick to be the 4th, but you won't listen to me, so why bother? So you're saying I don't make insightful posts? I'm useless? Hm, that comes across a little bitchy to me. Interesting you say that, especially since I remember a few posts back you said I am insightful but nasty. Which is it? But I don't think you did, I honestly don't. Why should I lie and be fake if I really disagree with your post--really, really disagree. I strongly agreed with GFs, and strongly disagreed with yours. I explained why. You made a long post, so I made a long response. I think you're being a little sensitive, to be honest. It's nothing personal. Hm, a little bitchy.. SEG explained Tina's. Ethan's has no explaination. We have never had a rule regarding the merge episode--ever. Contrary to what some people are saying, many people have always regarded the merge episode as just another episode. For me, it has it's own significance, and Mick got time where I wanted him to, so I'm satisified. I find it hypocritical to eliminate Mick for a UTR1 but consider Natalie even though she had a 1 in the first episode. Which is it? You either eliminate both or keep both in. I don't think E1 is equivalent to the merge at all, so I'm eliminating Natalie. However, if you (I don't mean "you" specifically astro, I mean "you" philosophically--you've misunderstood me) think E1 and merge are of equal importance, then why are you keeping Natalie and not Mick? Interesting. I am aware that your pick is Russ H. My post wasn't entirely directed at you, clearly, because I put paragraphs after I spoke to you directly. I am 100% aware that you aren't having Natalie on your winner list--that's awesome. However, you still are giving a "case" for Natalie. Again with Marcus. Maybe you're the one not listening? More bitchiness, calling me inside the box and bringing up Marcus again. Eek! Well, I didn't pick Amanda or Stephen so I guess I'm not as robotic an Edgicer as you think.
BlakeB717		#2725	[-]
Posts: 2161 (11/08/09 3:28 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	To which FLF responded: Interesting scene to look at again, gr. I'd add the confessionals from eps 1 to 4 in which Russel crows about the incredibly stupid women that he's leading around by the nose. It's a probable set-up for one of the "stupid blondes" to hoist him on his own petard, to misquote The Bard. But, that doesn't necessarily involve the win. One of Russel's "pieces of trash" knocking him out of the game doesn't equal winning. But it certainly does make Natalie someone to watch. I bolded and underlined the part that I think you may have missed.
SurvivorGuy24		#2726	[-]
Posts: 1082 (11/08/09 3:29 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Archibald C wrote: SurvivorGuy24 wrote: So why is there no "wiggle room" for Jaison? Why only Natalie? Well, first, I don't think that Jaison is someone who was ever eliminated edgically, but because he was getting a loser's edit (loser both in life, and the game). I didn't think he had a shot in the dark until his strong merge episode, but I've reopened his file so to speak. I think he'd have to have an incredible edit all the end, but we've seen stranger things. I guess to answer directly the question I think you're asking, I'm more willing to say Natalie is the winner after a crummy first three episodes over Jaison and his off and on loser edit because even though it's totally unprecedented to have a winner that was very UTR in the first three episodes, it's much more likely that the editors would do that than give us a winner that is shown saying he wants to quit, that being on Survivor is the dumbest decision he ever made, and completely giving up in a crucial immunity challenge. And Natalie has a story arch, while Jaison seems to have a story wavelength, going from highs (telling Ben off, helping overturn the Galu majority at the merge, standing up to Erik), to bitter lows (the examples I gave before). And to address why I'm throwing my weight behind Natalie, it is because she's the only person who is even slightly edgically viable (meaning, not Brett or Kelly, or Shambo to a certain extent) who has a story arch, and one that is all about over coming some obstacle to win. Everyone is is pretty flat, even Russell. Think about how many times we've gotten the almost exact same confessional from him; even at the merge he hasn't changed his game one bit. Natalie on the other hand, we can see evolving from riding Russell's coattails, to taking the game into her own hands. Does that make sense, or do you want me to explain more? There's a Story Arc thread in the MESS forum. Story arcs aren't part of edgic guidelines, as far as I know. And as unduli just stated above, I don't see where this grand Natalie story arc is coming from. Based on the handful of confessionals she's had all season long? Last Edited By: SurvivorGuy24 11/08/09 3:31 PM. Edited 1 times.
Oowatanite		#2727	[-]
Posts: 9267 (11/08/09 3:29 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Unduli rocks !!
Archibald C		#2728	[-]
Posts: 130 (11/08/09 3:29 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	unduli clone wrote: Archibald C wrote: SurvivorGuy24 wrote: So why is there no "wiggle room" for Jaison? Why only Natalie? Well, first, I don't think that Jaison is someone who was ever eliminated edgically, but because he was getting a loser's edit (loser both in life, and the game). I didn't think he had a shot in the dark until his strong merge episode, but I've reopened his file so to speak. I think he'd have to have an incredible edit all the end, but we've seen stranger things. I guess to answer directly the question I think you're asking, I'm more willing to say Natalie is the winner after a crummy first three episodes over Jaison and his off and on loser edit because even though it's totally unprecedented to have a winner that was very UTR in the first three episodes, it's much more likely that the editors would do that than give us a winner that is shown saying he wants to quit, that being on Survivor is the dumbest decision he ever made, and completely giving up in a crucial immunity challenge. And Natalie has a story arch, while Jaison seems to have a story wavelength, going from highs (telling Ben off, helping overturn the Galu majority at the merge, standing up to Erik), to bitter lows (the examples I gave before). And to address why I'm throwing my weight behind Natalie, it is because she's the only person who is even slightly edgically viable (meaning, not Brett or Kelly, or Shambo to a certain extent) who has a story arch, and one that is all about over coming some obstacle to win. Everyone is is pretty flat, even Russell. Think about how many times we've gotten the almost exact same confessional from him; even at the merge he hasn't changed his game one bit. Natalie on the other hand, we can see evolving from riding Russell's coattails, to taking the game into her own hands. Does that make sense, or do you want me to explain more? Where is Natalie's story arc coming from??? The little I've seen from her, I love her to death, but I just.don't.understand. where we're getting this storyline of her being a covert mastermind who will overthrow Russell from, other than about three sentences, which really isn't enough to make a story, in my opinion. Her story arch comes from Russell naming her "The Even Dumber Long Haired Blond", and saying that his strategy was to bring her to the end and then claim that she was riding coattails. Then we have Natalie saying that in fact she was going to the end with Russell because she knew she could beat him because he was an asshole, and she was playing a strong social game. Following that comment, she went from being almost invisible, to having scenes being friends with Ashley, befriending Laura to curry favor at Galu, and then finally, in this episode, taking matters into her own hands by getting Erik voted out, using her relationship with the Galu girls (who Russell wanted to vote out) as leverage. Also we had Russell telling her that she most likely didn't get them to turn, repeating his views that she's mostly there to make friends with people and not actually play a strategic game, and then having him proved wrong when her plan came to fruition. The editors aren't beating us over the head with it, but it's there. Honestly, if Natalie had had another UTR or low visibility MOR episode at the merge, I would have probably thrown in the towel, but after the way she was edited that episode, especially the Russell doubting her parts, I think it could be the beginning of a big shift for her from consistently UTR social player, to CP social player and strategist. Could be wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting.
BlakeB717		#2729	[-]
Posts: 2162 (11/08/09 3:30 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	And to address why I'm throwing my weight behind Natalie, it is because she's the only person who is even slightly edgically viable (meaning, not Brett or Kelly, or Shambo to a certain extent) who has a story arch, and one that is all about over coming some obstacle to win. She isn't edgically viable based on Edgic. Remember Cirie, Stephen, Erinn, Susie, Sugar, and Sierra? They all overcame something. Overcoming things, at least in recent history, doesn't result in a win. It actually does the opposite.
Katy Carney		#2730	[-]
Posts: 9359 (11/08/09 3:38 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Natalie has more of a story and better content than Mick, in my opinion. Mick's numbers are acceptable and he got what he needed in ep 1 but so far he seems really superfluous. The best thing about his edit was that he got focus at the right times, which is why I think his merge edit is troubling for some people. Natalie's visibility is way lower but she's had moments that pop out, like her strategy for how she's going to beat Russell in the end and the focus on her belief that they will overcome Galu. She's also most connected with the main storyline this season: Russell Russell Russell R U S S E L L I also wouldn't write off a Russell or Jaison win. In fact I agree with Kitty that Jaison has the least strikes against him.
rioothello		#2731	[-]
Posts: 34 (11/08/09 3:38 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: And to address why I'm throwing my weight behind Natalie, it is because she's the only person who is even slightly edgically viable (meaning, not Brett or Kelly, or Shambo to a certain extent) who has a story arch, and one that is all about over coming some obstacle to win. She isn't edgically viable based on Edgic. Remember Cirie, Stephen, Erinn, Susie, Sugar, and Sierra? They all overcame something. Overcoming things, at least in recent history, doesn't result in a win. It actually does the opposite. Bob overcame an obstacle of being outnumbered.
FallenTorch.fantasygamescen...		#2732	[-]
Posts: 222 (11/08/09 3:39 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't post too often in this thread but just wanted to add my two cents... After episode 3, nearly everyone had eliminated Natalie. Thematically, I think Natalie might be our winner. So if I panurge, or using the great thread he has every season on themes, well then I could understand the Natalie support. But looking at things thematically, I've noticed the last few seasons with themes predicting Stephen or Erinn as the winner, that one can't pinpoint how a theme will affect the game until after the season is over. Edgically, there is NO reason why there should be any support for Natalie. Isn't one of the major fundamental aspects of Edgic being shown in the first episode and having some at least limited development in the beginning of the season. Natalie had none of this. Sure, Natalie might be a new winner type or whatever people are talking about, but Natalie fits no viable Edgic guidelines. So until Natalie wins, any discussion about her winning should stay in a thematic thread or someother spec thread because no one has provided any solid line of reasoning on why someone who has been both invisible and not developed at all at the beginning of the season can win edgically. This is because its not possible. Natalie may be a finalist. She may do some great shit, but she's not winning ACCORDING TO EDGIC and last time I checked that's what this topic is called. Now, using logic, there is no way Shambo can win. I eliminated her weeks ago because she can't win. No winner would be shown as such a bumbling idiot asking "who's Erik" and such. Sorry, but if she hadn't been written off before then, she was then. That leaves us with three EDGICALLY viable winners. Mick, Jaison, and Russell H. Sorry if I forget some names, but someone a few pages back wrote up a great line of reasoning connecting Russell H to the guidelines. His edit may not be entirely orthodox Edgic, but we certainly know who he is, and we can't see him winning, which provides us with all the doubt in the world. Yes, he may have too much screentime, but it makes sense. Russell is any editor's wet dream, so there is no way he can be counted out. Jaison's edit looks more along the lines of someone who is about to go. I think cindi pointed this out first, and I can seriously see him going out next simply for the line about "I'll be good once Erik is gone" (or more or less the idea of that) He's been a fighter, but I don't think anyone can get a redemption arc large enough to take them out of "this has been the worst decision of my life" Sure, there'd be a whole lot of irony if he won, but I'm not sure any winner would be shown as whiney as he has. Still, he's viable, and I would not eliminate him. I just think his edit is looking more along the lines of taken out in the near future, but he might win. Then we come to Mick. Up until this episode, everyone in this thread (sorry if I'm not mentioning the one or two anomalies) believed Mick was winning, because Mick had the only solid edit. And then we had his weak merge episode. But no winning edit is perfect. Mick may have major flaws, but in my opinion...he'll be the after thought winner when Russell H loses and Natalie does as well. Natalie and Russell are the story of the season, but we know who Mick is. If he's not doing anything, why are they going to keep showing him say the the same thing to us when he's a pretty boring guy with bno character value at all? Just because he's boring does not mean he doesn't win. The editors can do a lot of things but they can't make someone who seems like a normal, but boring well adjusted guy look like the most riveting reality tv character. Mick has flaws. No one's edit is perfect, but if Russell doesn't win, then this season will go to Mick. With that, I am sticking with Mick as my winner. Russell H second. Jaison for a dark horse. And Natalie as a winner only if you factor Edgic completely out of the equation. And that's not what this thread is for.
BlakeB717		#2733	[-]
Posts: 2163 (11/08/09 3:39 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	rioothello wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: And to address why I'm throwing my weight behind Natalie, it is because she's the only person who is even slightly edgically viable (meaning, not Brett or Kelly, or Shambo to a certain extent) who has a story arch, and one that is all about over coming some obstacle to win. She isn't edgically viable based on Edgic. Remember Cirie, Stephen, Erinn, Susie, Sugar, and Sierra? They all overcame something. Overcoming things, at least in recent history, doesn't result in a win. It actually does the opposite. Bob overcame an obstacle of being outnumbered. Oh god.
getting real		#2734	[-]
Posts: 1865 (11/08/09 3:41 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I love the way the page total in this thread is swelling artficially by reams of circular aguments and pychedelic, psychosis-induced color fonts. All because the season is not being edited to 'normal' editing patterns.
Phoenix1269		#2735	[-]
Posts: 748 (11/08/09 3:43 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: Time to count up everyone's winner picks. EvilRuss - Astro, Mick - Blake, OTH, Natalie - gr, Jaison - Kitty, Monica - Shambo - Anyone else wishing to state their winner pick, please do so in this thread, and I will add them to the tally. not that i've had a lot of time to reflect or do ratings, but i would pick Jaison over anyone else.
BlakeB717		#2736	[-]
Posts: 2164 (11/08/09 3:43 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	getting real wrote: I love the way the page total in this thread is swelling artficially by reams of circular aguments and pychedelic, psychosis-induced color fonts. All because the season is not being edited to 'normal' editing patterns. The colors was just an easier way to respond, since I didn't feel like quoting.
Phoenix1269		#2737	[-]
Posts: 749 (11/08/09 3:44 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	CrystalOwnage wrote: I'm just gonna say this again... It's very obvious who here has read the spoilers PM me with names.... so that i can cross reference to my official list for voting. thanks
Archibald C		#2738	[-]
Posts: 131 (11/08/09 3:44 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Okay, I'll be moving my discussion over to the theme thread. The only reason I brought it up in here was to talk about the possibility of a non-edgically viable winner, and clearly the conversation spiraled into something larger.
SurvivorGuy24		#2739	[-]
Posts: 1084 (11/08/09 3:48 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	getting real wrote: All because the season is not being edited to 'normal' editing patterns. We won't know if the season is being edited to "normal editing patterns" until the finale.
guatemala fanfic		#2740	[-]
Posts: 5407 (11/08/09 3:48 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sorry if I forget some names, but someone a few pages back wrote up a great line of reasoning connecting Russell H to the guidelines. His edit may not be entirely orthodox Edgic, but we certainly know who he is, and we can't see him winning, which provides us with all the doubt in the world. Yes, he may have too much screentime, but it makes sense. Russell is any editor's wet dream, so there is no way he can be counted out. That was Werwanderflugen.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

Quick Reply