S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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Oowatanite		#2281	[-]
Posts: 9207 (11/04/09 1:16 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	And you would be wrong.
getting real		#2282	[-]
Posts: 1843 (11/04/09 1:28 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	^^ Erinnnnn's magic is diachronic and everlasting. Only 46 pages to go and she'll single-handedly rescue this season's Edgic as well!!
co coach		#2283	[-]
Posts: 548 (11/04/09 2:03 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Why is edgic so weird this season? Because Erinn is the super surprising manipulator next ep. Epic outcast return. Epic win.
guatemala fanfic		#2284	[-]
Posts: 5383 (11/04/09 8:03 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I was able to rewatch the episode yesterday and if I could do ratings, I would most likely have given Jaison OTT since I thought he was very simplified as just someone who "gave up" and was a big part of FF's losses. I really didn't see much from him to balance out an OTT, but that's just my opinion. Normally I would watch the episode more than twice.
Warrior		#2285	[-]
Posts: 2968 (11/04/09 8:25 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Note: I did not receive the spreadsheet. I got the above information from recent posts. flf...PLEASE
craig		#2286	[-]
Posts: 16411 (11/04/09 7:52 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Having Natalie as Mixed is the lesser of two evils, since we can't make her P. Weird, she gets credit from Russell for SMARTLY playing the social game with Laura while Liz bitches about the fire. But we also get stock ranting from Russ about her being dumb, which Russ himself and the edit both contradict.
BlakeB717		#2287	[-]
Posts: 2031 (11/04/09 8:24 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think we need to make a new forum: "Feminism and Editing: Femdit" If you're an attractive female, you're automatically P when you were neutral, M when you were negative, and CP when you were P!
fat little fingers		#2288	[-]
Posts: 6317 (11/04/09 9:22 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Close Call Ditherings Okay, so since gr called me on my interpretation of Russel's confessional after the Liz fire pit scene, I listened again...twice, and transcribed the damned thing and read it over a few times. My conclusion is, Russel's grammar isn't the clearest. Here's his speech: "Liz is so stupid, I don't see how she can walk without falling down -ya know- It's just ridiculous! [break] If we merge, we need somebody on the inside and Natalie's doing a good job talkin' to Laura around camp, so I have to keep Natalie for my little toy -ya know- she has to be there for me, so I can manipulate her little mind and do what I want her to do, when it comes to this game, you better be street smart and Liz has a mouth on her and I don't think she knows when to shut up, so I'm gonna keep my eye on her." Whew! What a mouth full. Okay, let's try to break it down: "Liz is so stupid, I don't see how she can walk without falling down -ya know- It's just ridiculous!..." So, we're talking about Liz... "...If we merge, we need somebody on the inside and Natalie's doing a good job talkin' to Laura around camp, so I have to keep Natalie for my little toy -ya know- she has to be there for me, so I can manipulate her little mind and do what I want her to do,.." ...And we're talking about Natalie and here "good job" of chatting up Laura. "...when it comes to this game, you better be street smart and Liz has a mouth on her and I don't think she knows when to shut up, so I'm gonna keep my eye on her." Then we're back to Liz. This confessional comes lo-ong after Russel's scene and confessional about Laura. That scene was followed by the whole Galu sailing segment. Finally the story came back to Foa Foa and the scene around the fire pit. That scene was all about Liz's frustration with Natalie and Russel's hatred of Liz. Why is he so hateful? The confessional is about Russel's comparison of Natalie and Liz. Natalie is his good little toy that he can manipulate to do just what he wants for his game. He hates "stupid... mouthy" Liz, because she's useless to him. Even worse, she's now targeting is puppet. So, this confessional is not Russel praising Natalie for chatting up his new toy. Natalie is his toy. This is no Positive SPV for Natalie. But, she has her positive attitude speech at TC. Plus, a dis from OTTN character, Russel (does anyone disagree that he's gonna get OTTN for his overall rating at the end of the season?), is probably more accurately a double negative, ie., positive. Well, whatever you or I want to blather about, Natalie's tone is definitely Mixed. Natalie- Mixed. Edited to correct the Close Call. Natalie Neutral Last Edited By: fat little fingers 11/05/09 5:21 PM. Edited 1 times.
McPhever224		#2289	[-]
Posts: 365 (11/04/09 9:49 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: I think we need to make a new forum: "Feminism and Editing: Femdit" If you're an attractive female, you're automatically P when you were neutral, M when you were negative, and CP when you were P! Have you not seen the way people have been rating Monica?
BlakeB717		#2290	[-]
Posts: 2032 (11/04/09 10:19 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	McPhever224 wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: I think we need to make a new forum: "Feminism and Editing: Femdit" If you're an attractive female, you're automatically P when you were neutral, M when you were negative, and CP when you were P! Have you not seen the way people have been rating Monica? I'm mainly referencing to craig who has suggested that Monica didn't deserve most of her Ns and that (somehow) the editing is suggesting that she will be the 6th place perky underdog, and thus she was P when she put on a swimsuit and P when she said "Thank You" to Shambo. Lol. Also, apparently Natalie is P because RussH PRAISED, completely PRAISED her gameplay this episode, and thus is P. Besides the fact that it was barely memorable, there are two things: 1) Good gameplay is reflected in the strategy ratings, not tone 2) The comment didn't even make Natalie look good, it made her look like a tool. However, she was P according to craig this week. Again, BEYOND me! (so is his "Tone Watchdog Title".. I'd rather him be the other Visibility watchdog if he has to be a watchdog because at least that one barely gets a say, and if they have a say, they usually lose!)
BlakeB717		#2291	[-]
Posts: 2033 (11/04/09 10:23 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	But, she has her positive attitude speech at TC. Plus, a dis from OTTN character, Russel (does anyone disagree that he's gonna get OTTN for his overall rating at the end of the season?), is probably more accurately a double negative, ie., positive. I think neutral suffices for Natalie this week. Again, too vague a tone if anything. If we were to go back in time, we'd probably just give Natalie MOR (since it was toneless in the early days)..there was no impact on the viewer. I'm not sure a (barely memorable) speech on positivity works in Natalie's favor. I see the slight N, but I don't see P at all.
chapera rocks		#2292	[-]
Posts: 11889 (11/04/09 10:35 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Natalie's scene with Laura WAS memorable. She was clearly negative in that she wasn't doing anything. It would be very easy for the editors to leave it at that; the lazy person. But they chose to add a P element by adding a Russell comment, stating that her talking with Laura was going to help Foa Foa down the line. That means a clear M rating.
fat little fingers		#2293	[-]
Posts: 6318 (11/04/09 10:44 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Natalie was severely dis'd by Russel. Anyone who wants to argue that he was praising her and "my toy" was, somehow, Laura, is in some sort of fan haze and not doing any favors, (or favours, for our northern cousins), for Ms.Natalie. Her story is all about being abused (and underestimated) by Evil Russ. The editors prime our pumps on that every chance they get. Every time Russel calls her and the women in general stupid, she is one step closer to outlasting him. Russel tolerates the women who will be his useful puppets and hates the women who challenge him. Now, they're all gone, except Natalie, who told us in secret that she'll play his game and use him. My bet's that her story is beating Russel and making him eat his words.
BlakeB717		#2294	[-]
Posts: 2034 (11/04/09 11:04 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Natalie was severely dis'd by Russel. Anyone who wants to argue that he was praising her and "my toy" was, somehow, Laura, is in some sort of fan haze and not doing any favors, (or favours, for our northern cousins), for Ms.Natalie. X I am confused how, after your lengthy post which seemed to argue Neutral for Natalie, resulted in you deciding that Natalie was mixed, FLF? I don't really see where the full-on P in her edit is, considering Mixed is reserved for people who have both P and N in their edit. Had Russ not dissed (or "praised", depending on your level of bias), would she get a P? I don't think she would.
chapera rocks		#2295	[-]
Posts: 11892 (11/04/09 11:31 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Russ dissed her, yes. But the fact remains that it was pointed out that by Natalie bonding with Laura, it would help Foa Foa strategically in the long run. That leaves the viewers thinking "I guess she's doing a good thing, but she could be working at the same time." M.
BlakeB717		#2296	[-]
Posts: 2035 (11/04/09 11:57 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	M) Dynamic Mixed neutral - If you think someone was noticibly P AND N within one episode. I don't think she was noticibly P AND N: she was UTR; thus, she wasn't very noticeable at all. It's hard to give a UTR edit two different tones. There may be been a little bit of N and a little bit of P, but it wasn't full-fledged tone on both ends. Mixed, in almost all cases, results in a P edit in one section followed by an N edit in another section. M edits do not happen together in one scene. One confessional by Russell cannot be enough to make someone both N and P: it would simply cancel out both inklings of tone and result in neutral.
Riliss		#2297	[-]
Posts: 6006 (11/05/09 12:35 AM) Ugly on the inside Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: I think we need to make a new forum: "Feminism and Editing: Femdit" If you're an attractive female, you're automatically P when you were neutral, M when you were negative, and CP when you were P! X
chapera rocks		#2298	[-]
Posts: 11893 (11/05/09 12:44 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: M) Dynamic Mixed neutral - If you think someone was noticibly P AND N within one episode. I don't think she was noticibly P AND N: she was UTR; thus, she wasn't very noticeable at all. It's hard to give a UTR edit two different tones. There may be been a little bit of N and a little bit of P, but it wasn't full-fledged tone on both ends. Mixed, in almost all cases, results in a P edit in one section followed by an N edit in another section. M edits do not happen together in one scene. One confessional by Russell cannot be enough to make someone both N and P: it would simply cancel out both inklings of tone and result in neutral. I can see your first argument, but your second one doesn't make much sense. Of course people could theoretically be both positive and negative in one scene. There's no rule saying you have to have separate scenes in order to qualify for a M rating. That goes into a an extremely gray area; one could argue that the Foa Foa scenes were divided into Liz vs. Natalie and Russell's commenting. Being edited as lazy is classic negative in survivor. To have a scene dedicated to Natalie's laziness is an automatic negative. Usually, this is where tone ends, but instead of leaving it at that, the editors decided to give rational that makes sense for the laziness, which leaves the audience conflicted with her actions. Natalie is UTR because she did not explain her actions, Russell did it for her. But to call an entire Foa Foa scene which centered around Natalie and Liz "insignificant" is a bit of a stretch. I could see a negative tone, but I really can't see how she's toneless. Again, laziness a classic survivor negative edit.
getting real		#2299	[-]
Posts: 1844 (11/05/09 12:55 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	FLF said: Natalie was severely dis'd by Russel. Anyone who wants to argue that he was praising her and "my toy" was, somehow, Laura, is in some sort of fan haze and not doing any favors, (or favours, for our northern cousins), for Ms.Natalie. You can accuse me of many things, FLF, but being captive to fandom ought not to be one of them. The whole thing turns on whether Russell said "I have to keep Natalie my little toy" or "I have to keep Natalie from my little toy". I've listened to it more than a dozen times and it's a very fine difference but I still hear the latter. Are you (or anyone else) able to state categorically and unequivocally that he said 'for' and not 'from'?
BlakeB717		#2300	[-]
Posts: 2036 (11/05/09 1:11 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chapera rocks wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: M) Dynamic Mixed neutral - If you think someone was noticibly P AND N within one episode. I don't think she was noticibly P AND N: she was UTR; thus, she wasn't very noticeable at all. It's hard to give a UTR edit two different tones. There may be been a little bit of N and a little bit of P, but it wasn't full-fledged tone on both ends. Mixed, in almost all cases, results in a P edit in one section followed by an N edit in another section. M edits do not happen together in one scene. One confessional by Russell cannot be enough to make someone both N and P: it would simply cancel out both inklings of tone and result in neutral. I can see your first argument, but your second one doesn't make much sense. Of course people could theoretically be both positive and negative in one scene. There's no rule saying you have to have separate scenes in order to qualify for a M rating. That goes into a an extremely gray area; one could argue that the Foa Foa scenes were divided into Liz vs. Natalie and Russell's commenting. Being edited as lazy is classic negative in survivor. To have a scene dedicated to Natalie's laziness is an automatic negative. Usually, this is where tone ends, but instead of leaving it at that, the editors decided to give rational that makes sense for the laziness, which leaves the audience conflicted with her actions. Natalie is UTR because she did not explain her actions, Russell did it for her. But to call an entire Foa Foa scene which centered around Natalie and Liz "insignificant" is a bit of a stretch. I could see a negative tone, but I really can't see how she's toneless. Again, laziness a classic survivor negative edit. I'm saying that it's nearly impossible to make someone else M (in this case, Russ about Natalie) simply from one confessional by another person which lasted less than 5 seconds.

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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