S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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Werwanderflugen		#2081	[-]
Posts: 267 (10/29/09 11:33 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oh my goodness, edgic just isn't as much fun to read anymore. I realize the editors aren't giving us much to work with, but most of the arguments I see are petty and can be settled through PMs or simply ignoring the offenders. Anyway, I'm seeing some interesting ratings so far... I thought I'd throw in my post-first-viewing two cents: Galu: Brett- UTR1 (um... maybe he'll finally get that 2 in visibility next week?) Dave- MOR3 (where's the tone coming from? This guy is a constant mugging-for-the-camera, narrating MOR) Erik- CP3 (I could see MOR for him, I suppose, though the first Galu scenes seemed centered around his decisions) John- INV Kelly- UTR(N?)1 Laura- MOR4 Monica- MOR3 Shambo- OTT3 (I don't think our tone ratings can describe what the editors are going for; the tribe considers her N, but I don't think the editors want us to see her as N. Rather, I think she should be viewed more as the lovable, ex-Marine, simple idiot. I could possibly see M to indicate that tone exists, but I'm leaving her as plain, textbook OTT for now) Foa Foa: Jaison- MORN3 (I've now eliminated him. The climax of his edit was in Episode 3.) Liz- MOR4 (maaaybe CP, and maaaybe M, but I think MOR(toneless) most accurately describes her needs-to-be-there boot edit) Mick- MOR2 (I didn't see enough tone for a P, but I think he had enough presence and weight to pull him out of UTR territory. I wouldn't be terribly opposed to it, though. Overall, I think this was a good episode for Mick in the big scheme of things) Natalie- UTRP2 (yes, Liz was annoyed with her, but why should we believe Liz? Russell painted her as smart and strategic, and I believe we were supposed to side with him. She didn't give any personal insight, really, which keeps her from even MOR) Russell- CPN5 (back to the same old Russell. I'd be open to arguments for a M tone, however.) Winners: 1. Mick 2. (by the thinnest of threads: the logic of an edit in and of itself) Russell H 3. (I should probably just eliminate her...) Shambo
augustus713		#2082	[-]
Posts: 159 (10/29/09 11:44 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Some thoughts: 1. Is Brett the most ignored male ever? 2. Russell was all game today and I don't really think the audience is meant to be rooting against him anymore. I know I'm hoping he brings Foa back from the dead at the merge, which we have known will happen for a while now. 3. Shambo is now eliminated for me, she's been shown consistently as a pawn and dim-witted. Definitely OTTN this episode. 4. Jaison is also eliminated for me now, this is the third or fourth episode where he's been shown as a quitter. That is not someone who would be considered worthy as a winner, even Jenna only had 1 episode of that and that was at the very end of the 39 days, not pre-merge. 5. I have to again mention Natalie as the #3 choice of edgic last week. I don't know what you guys are smoking, but she is NOT an edgically viable winner. If by some miracle she does win, it is still not an "edgic" winner. Terrible failure on the part of whoever has been voting Natalie as a winner pick. 6. Mick continues to be a relentless MOR. He's still my clear top choice but he needs to have a strong CP merge episode next week. Otherwise, I may go out on a limb and put Russell as my #1. Those 2 are my only 2 edgically viable choices for winner at this point. Anyone else winning would be outside of edgic guidelines in my opinion.
Werwanderflugen		#2083	[-]
Posts: 268 (10/29/09 11:51 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	1. Is Brett the most ignored male ever? Yes. And he's the second-most-ignored player period through seven episodes, behind Natalie. (I wonder when his OTTNN5 episode is coming? Oh wait, he's a guy in a MB show. I wonder when his OTTPP5 episode is coming? ;) )
augustus713		#2084	[-]
Posts: 160 (10/29/09 11:51 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Also, the thing possibly working in Russell's favor is I don't think the over-arching theme is the fall of Russell anymore, like it seemed it would be at the start of the season. It's the comeback of Foa and Russell seems to be leading the charge.
gretchensucks		#2085	[-]
Posts: 840 (10/29/09 11:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: Laura and Monica were P - they are now marginalized outsiders. Laura took exile with goods grace, we got to know her, friendly to other tribe. (Shown to be on outs on Galu, so can't blame her for considering working with ER). Monica thanked Shambo for not exiling her, which is as strong a basis for P as she had for N last week. If we're gonna give ehr weak Ns, we should give ehr the weak Ps too. You're joking right? Her "apology" was immediately followed by a snarky, attitudinal confessional contradicting herself and ripping Shambo. Were you watching?
ndralcasid		#2086	[-]
Posts: 205 (10/29/09 11:58 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Where are y'all getting that Shambo's edit is intended for the viewer to get behind her? Because I cannot see that. At all. She was definitely N this ep...being shown as easily manipulated by the guys, and a bad leader and decision maker by the girls. There's no P in the edit this episode. At all Galu: Brett- UTR1 Dave- MOR3 (not quite seeing N...he went kinda crazy at the RC, but it wasn't really emphasized) Erik- CP3 John- INV Kelly- UTR1 Laura- MOR4 Monica- MOR3 Shambo- OTTN3 Foa Foa: Jaison- OTTN3 Liz- MORN4 Mick- UTR2 Natalie- UTR2 Russell- CPN5
Kitty Pryde1		#2087	[-]
Posts: 10811 (10/30/09 12:00 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	We really need to have a special tone rating of S for stupid. For when a player isn't negative or positive, but are editted as fucking retarded. Shambo would get a ton of S's this season.
BlakeB717		#2088	[-]
Posts: 1998 (10/30/09 12:14 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	gretchensucks wrote: craig wrote: Laura and Monica were P - they are now marginalized outsiders. Laura took exile with goods grace, we got to know her, friendly to other tribe. (Shown to be on outs on Galu, so can't blame her for considering working with ER). Monica thanked Shambo for not exiling her, which is as strong a basis for P as she had for N last week. If we're gonna give ehr weak Ns, we should give ehr the weak Ps too. You're joking right? Her "apology" was immediately followed by a snarky, attitudinal confessional contradicting herself and ripping Shambo. Were you watching? X
TheWizard		#2089	[-]
Posts: 152 (10/30/09 12:20 AM) "Thought it was Outwit, Outplay, Outgrow" Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Werwanderflugen wrote: 1. Is Brett the most ignored male ever? Yes. And he's the second-most-ignored player period through seven episodes, behind Natalie. (I wonder when his OTTNN5 episode is coming? Oh wait, he's a guy in a MB show. I wonder when his OTTPP5 episode is coming? ;) ) Behind Kelly, right? I know it's hard to remember which is which....
TheWizard		#2090	[-]
Posts: 153 (10/30/09 12:23 AM) "Thought it was Outwit, Outplay, Outgrow" Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Werwanderflugen wrote: Natalie- UTRP2 (yes, Liz was annoyed with her, but why should we believe Liz? Russell painted her as smart and strategic, and I believe we were supposed to side with him. She didn't give any personal insight, really, which keeps her from even MOR) Didn't Russell have a long confessional about how he needed Natalie around to manipulate her and control her pea-brain?
chapera rocks		#2091	[-]
Posts: 11870 (10/30/09 12:26 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	After a second watch... Jaison - UTRN2 (maybe MORN2). Liz - MORN4 Mick - UTR2 Natalie - UTR3 (She is very close to a N though) Russell H. - CP5 Brett - UTR1 Dave - MOR3 Erik - CP4 (His first 3 scenes were CP regarding Shambo's position within his strategy) John - INV0 Kelly - UTRN1 Laura - MOR4 Monica - MOR3 Shambo - OTTN3 (She was definitely N).
Werwanderflugen		#2092	[-]
Posts: 269 (10/30/09 12:29 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Werwanderflugen wrote: 1. Is Brett the most ignored male ever? Yes. And he's the second-most-ignored player period through seven episodes, behind Natalie. (I wonder when his OTTNN5 episode is coming? Oh wait, he's a guy in a MB show. I wonder when his OTTPP5 episode is coming? ;) ) Behind Kelly, right? I know it's hard to remember which is which.... Even Kelly's gotten a MOR so far... And as for Natalie's tone this episode, I'm sure it'll be cleared up on a rewatch. I just seemed to get a strong first impression of her UTRP-ness. The way it's looking from everyone's ratings, however, that definitely doesn't seem to be the case. (on a side note, I suck at this quote format stuff)
I LUV TIJUANA		#2093	[-]
Posts: 15644 (10/30/09 12:30 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: In terms of development, of the 8 remaining on Galu it would go: 1. Shambo 2. Erik 3. Dave 4. Monica 5. John 6. Laura 7. Kelly 8. Brett What are you suggesting we know about Monica or Kelly as people, craig? After tonight I'd bump Laura up above Dave.
beatles20147		#2094	[-]
Posts: 12566 (10/30/09 12:32 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	cindidindi76 wrote: Is anyone else just completely over this season? It's like we're seeing the same episode over and over and over again. Seriously, last week's amazing episode was just a fluke. Hopefully the merge will shake things up but even if the dynamics change, I doubt the unbalanced editing will. Behind Kelly, right? I think he means Natalie from Micronesia, who took eleven episodes to do anything significant. (P.etition for Stephen to give me a shout-out in his next column)
BlakeB717		#2095	[-]
Posts: 1999 (10/30/09 12:35 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I LUV TIJUANA wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: In terms of development, of the 8 remaining on Galu it would go: 1. Shambo 2. Erik 3. Dave 4. Monica 5. John 6. Laura 7. Kelly 8. Brett What are you suggesting we know about Monica or Kelly as people, craig? After tonight I'd bump Laura up above Dave. Hm I'm not sure she beats Dave, he's had steady presence for 4 episodes (especially one about the type of person he is).. Laura's development has been through talking to people and not in confessionals.. I'd say she's 4th now above Monica. Even so, the men of Galu are still getting more personalization (craig, whom is watching a different show I've gathered, believes the woman have! eek!)
TheWizard		#2096	[-]
Posts: 157 (10/30/09 12:35 AM) "Thought it was Outwit, Outplay, Outgrow" Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Werwanderflugen wrote: Werwanderflugen wrote: 1. Is Brett the most ignored male ever? Yes. And he's the second-most-ignored player period through seven episodes, behind Natalie. (I wonder when his OTTNN5 episode is coming? Oh wait, he's a guy in a MB show. I wonder when his OTTPP5 episode is coming? ;) ) Behind Kelly, right? I know it's hard to remember which is which.... Even Kelly's gotten a MOR so far... And as for Natalie's tone this episode, I'm sure it'll be cleared up on a rewatch. I just seemed to get a strong first impression of her UTRP-ness. The way it's looking from everyone's ratings, however, that definitely doesn't seem to be the case. (on a side note, I suck at this quote format stuff) I agree though that Natalie is definitely P, apart from the pea-brain quote (and that stuff is just background noise with Russell now).
TheWizard		#2097	[-]
Posts: 158 (10/30/09 12:37 AM) "Thought it was Outwit, Outplay, Outgrow" Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: We really need to have a special tone rating of S for stupid. For when a player isn't negative or positive, but are editted as fucking retarded. Shambo would get a ton of S's this season. Yes. Somehow, from anecdotal evidence, people just love her. They think she's the real deal. She drives me up the wall. I don't even understand what she's doing on Survivor. Did she ever watch the show? Does she -want- to win the game? If she wants to win, why is she giving away clues to the idol and not making alliances?
scepticA		#2098	[-]
Posts: 1738 (10/30/09 12:45 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I also didn't see Natalie as all that P. We didn't hear the strategy from her (about sucking up to Laura), but from Russell - and for all we know Natalie was just being lazy and talking - it's Russell's plan (or one of them) to go to F3 with Nat and Laura. There is zero evidence that Nat knows this, so she was from the viewers perspective a pawn in this. And Russell is all about himself, and he (as Wiz mentioned) thinks Natalie as something with a wee brain. The only P for her was Russell's comments, but they were negated by his confessional SPV, which was much harsher. If Russell's statements to Liz gave a tone of P for Natalie, wouldn't his SPV of her give her N tone, so she was mixed? That doesn't make too much sense, cuz it's all from Russell's mouth. And he is not the grand poobah of tone-givers. Re Brett as the most ignored male, pretty much. He's got the visiblity of that tree stump on Pearl Islands, Darrah. Thing is, Darrah couldn't string three words together that anyone ouside her identical twin could understand. And considering she doesn't have an identical twin, that means nobody had a clue what marblemouth was saying. Usually it's chicks that are ignored so assiduously. What did Brett do to MB? Run off with his daughter? Borrow the car keys and get the Bentley in a 4-dar pile-up on the 405? Kitty, I do like the concept of a "stuck on stupid" rating, but that's what the strategy ratings are for. the problem is we're only shown what they want to show us, and there is Russell's strategy with everyone save JP, and the guys using Shambo on Galu... who else? Shambo isn't merely stuck on stupid. It's her mantra. The Galu girls are in a good place to abandon the guys post-merge(I hope it happens just to spice things up), and that's about it. Right now - who has the stupid strategy? Even if Shambo knows what's going on, which I doubt, why wouldn't she ride with the guys for a while, and even the worst case scenario is exploiting the clear potential of a 2-2 split among the guys and getting to F3 with one of the dyads. The guys, for the time being, are okay with Shambo. Russell isn't nearly the genius player he thinks he is, but talks the talk (i.e. BS's) quite well. Jaison and Mick and Natalie? They made the merge. They're in a minority position, so find the rifts in Galu and join up with that minority. One group needs seven votes and will get it. Yeah, there are always instances of dumbness in each season. But right now - if the bloody editors would show it - we could be in for a few episodes of heavy duty strategery among the remaining players.
Werwanderflugen		#2099	[-]
Posts: 270 (10/30/09 12:45 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I agree though that Natalie is definitely P, apart from the pea-brain quote (and that stuff is just background noise with Russell now). Ah. I agree that a lot of Russell's former N-ness is coming across as more netural now; it's become a part of his character, rather than a feature of his edit (if you can separate the two). But I think a key question that many asked earlier in the season still applies: if Russell won, how would the editors treat him differently? I'm guessing not much. On the other hand, if Natalie won, how would the editors edit her differently? Well, for one, they'd have given her a more significant intro in episode one, with even more substance along the way. I think asking this question for everyone left is a valuable tool, and actually, it really forms the basic of the edgic guidelines themselves.
TheWizard		#2100	[-]
Posts: 159 (10/30/09 12:57 AM) "Thought it was Outwit, Outplay, Outgrow" Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	scepticA wrote: I also didn't see Natalie as all that P. We didn't hear the strategy from her (about sucking up to Laura), but from Russell - and for all we know Natalie was just being lazy and talking - it's Russell's plan (or one of them) to go to F3 with Nat and Laura. There is zero evidence that Nat knows this, so she was from the viewers perspective a pawn in this. And Russell is all about himself, and he (as Wiz mentioned) thinks Natalie as something with a wee brain. The only P for her was Russell's comments, but they were negated by his confessional SPV, which was much harsher. If Russell's statements to Liz gave a tone of P for Natalie, wouldn't his SPV of her give her N tone, so she was mixed? That doesn't make too much sense, cuz it's all from Russell's mouth. And he is not the grand poobah of tone-givers. I actually disagree with this premise, which I know you've stated before here. I think Russell -is- the grand poobah of tone-givers, and possibly the poobah of poobahs. Basically everything he says is reliably shown to come true; he's portrayed as having almost mystic powers of gameplay. (And what's more, the rain only makes him stronger!) I doubt I'll be able to convince you of this, but I just want to state the case for the opposition. Also, are the guys getting credit for electing Shambo or getting blamed? (I scrolled back through the thread but couldn't find anything definitive). Seems to me like a horrible move - fracture the tribe right before a merge. Just desserts if the Galu girls flip.

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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