S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

0 Kudo

Started By	Comment
BlakeB717		#1881	[-]
Posts: 1958 (10/23/09 6:28 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I felt that even RussH's comment on them being worthless was shown as being true--the music showed RussH as the only one who really cared about winning, and then shots of everyone else lying around like quitters. I thought that scene definitely looked good on Russ and bad on them.
augustus713		#1882	[-]
Posts: 156 (10/23/09 6:33 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: I felt that even RussH's comment on them being worthless was shown as being true--the music showed RussH as the only one who really cared about winning, and then shots of everyone else lying around like quitters. I thought that scene definitely looked good on Russ and bad on them. +1, Exactly how I felt about that scene.
Hippochinfat		#1883	[-]
Posts: 220 (10/23/09 7:42 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	So, was Russel S. OTTP or OTTPP? Jeff's speach, and all the positive stuff about him from people like John makes me think PP.
Jedijake		#1884	[-]
Posts: 5955 (10/23/09 8:10 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	PP for good merit.
James Barber		#1885	[-]
Posts: 20419 (10/23/09 8:48 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	augustus713 wrote: The way Russell went about calling his team worthless or stupid is different from previous episodes, which is why he's not N this episode. He says it in a way in which we agree with him, that if they can't suck it up and fight through being cold and in the rain without whining, then how are they going to fight through the fatigue of challenges and win? If he says it in every episode, then it will all end up running together in the mind of the viewers. The editing is all over the place. They want us to see Foa Foa as underdogs, yet they also want us to see them as total losers who are nothing without Russell. They want us to see Russell as this great player, yet Russell basically says in the first episode that he doesn't care about winning, he only cares about doing whatever he can. They show him as happily sabotaging his tribe, yet now they want us to believe he is the savior of the tribe. The tribe he wanted to lose in the first place.
scepticA		#1886	[-]
Posts: 1728 (10/23/09 9:04 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	augustus713 wrote: But it didn't, it came out of Russell's mouth. To not take into account the entirety of the season is a mistake. For Russell, this was a very neutral episode compared to how he's been edited previously. The players don't have a clean slate every episode, their edits in the previous episodes are already engraved in the back of viewers' minds. The editors know this and this was a relatively neutral edit for Russell this episode with that in mind. I really can't agree with this. Using this logic he'd be neutral or even P if he was only a mild jerk. Tones are not relative: either to others or to a player's prior tones. To think this would almost require tones to become cumulative. "Relatively neutral" is a non sequitor in edgic. But even using this logic, the viewer comes into this episode with all of Russell's crap baggage in his prior edits. Was there anything in his edit this time that would make a viewer think, "hey - he was nicer this episode!" or even:a more static, "Well, Russell was different." Nope - by using the "relative" tone concept you could even argue that the cumulative effect or Russell's tribehate would make him seem even more N. Even if he was making sense, he still said it in his typical crap fashion, so he was a "relative N." Or you can make tone whatever you feel like at the moment. I think we need to keep each rating/tone a separate and unique value. If you think he was N or neutral in this episode, cool. But just leave it at "this episode."
augustus713		#1887	[-]
Posts: 157 (10/23/09 9:19 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	scepticA wrote: Even if he was making sense, he still said it in his typical crap fashion, so he was a "relative N." Or you can make tone whatever you feel like at the moment. But that's just the way he talks! That has nothing to do with editing, that's just the way Russell expresses himself to the camera. The way the scene was edited, the viewers sympathized with Russell as it made it seem like he was the only one on Foa who was working hard and still fighting to win.
scepticA		#1888	[-]
Posts: 1729 (10/23/09 9:55 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Augustus, we are looking at the exact same thing and seeing two different results. I look at and say, "that's how he is, an N bastard." You look at it and say, "maybe, but he was right." Another way of looking at it - the conditions were dreadful. Awful, probably as crummy a few days as any survivor group has ever experienced. They were all trying to stay warm, to endure. Except two people, the Russells. One was so wiped out by trying to work hard that he was evacuated. The other just dissed all the whiners. Sorry, but what Russell H was doing was pointless. Working hard to what end? Yeah, he's built like a bull, this guy who WANTED to make his tribe miserable, who sabotaged them by burning clothes (think those clothes he burned might have helped his tribe stay warm and maintian energy?) and dumping their water. Hey, I'm just using the "relatively neutral" standard you suggested, looking at his edit over time. so let's do that.. He went out of his way to screw them up, and now they're suffering, and he calls them whiners. How can you agree with someone who went out of his way to make the others uncomfortable, and when conditions deteriorated, became uncomfortable - and he disses them? Yeah, that's exactly how he talks. From that perspective, the bastard was NN. But in this episode alone, he was typical Russell H. Make of that what you will.
fat little fingers		#1889	[-]
Posts: 6292 (10/23/09 9:57 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	But that's just the way he talks! That has nothing to do with editing, that's just the way Russell expresses himself to the camera. No, that's the talking that the editors included in his character. Yes, he's shown playing the game hard. But, he also opened the show smirking at the camera and telling a voted out Ashley that he should never be trusted. His "Trash.", "Worthless.", comments weren't necessary to his talking about the need to start fighting harder to win. It reminds me of ASS Rob's confessionals. I still think RobM was the one player who was really trying to win that season, but the edit made sure to put in every nasty, over-the-line comment he made. It was to explain why the jury was so bitter about him. If (as is quite likely) Evil Russ makes it to F-2, all these abusive comments will come back to haunt him. Remember that we were reminded by Jeff's recap that Liz fought hard at the last IC and that we had Mick's long confessional before Russ wrote them all off as hopeless. Each episode, RusselH crows about his superior abilities and the others' inferiority. I agree that he was the voice of a fighting spirit on Foa Foa this ep. But so was Natalie in telling Jaison that they could still make it far in the game and Mick's telling Eric that he welcomed the challenge. Russel was still N this ep, but the editors are starting to crank up the "Yes, we can!" bandwagon for Foa Foa. I can already hear the Indiana Jones theme playing in the background every time they win an IC. This ep prepped us for what we've known is coming: the Foanian juggernaut.
scepticA		#1890	[-]
Posts: 1730 (10/23/09 10:33 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	fat little fingers wrote: This ep prepped us for what we've known is coming: the Foanian juggernaut. Don't know why, but I like that phrase. I thought Frank Herbert used it, though.
goohst		#1891	[-]
Posts: 1315 (10/24/09 12:22 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I do think that the scene with the clique girls (Kelly, Laura, Monica) coming in talking about booting Shambo, then changing it abruptly has to be considered. Full N for all? Probably not. The question is, who gets associated with that? If it's Monica, then Monica is N, whether you like it or not.
chaperone		#1892	[-]
Posts: 2743 (10/24/09 1:04 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hey Edgic Peeps! I'm bummed I haven't been able to keep up this season but wanted to stop by and spread the love...hope edgic is rocking it this year. I'm enjoying this season...a bit mystified on my personal edgic pick, and find myself wondering about non-traditional edgic winner realities...but my baseline is always edgic.
McPhever224		#1893	[-]
Posts: 356 (10/24/09 10:56 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	goohst wrote: I do think that the scene with the clique girls (Kelly, Laura, Monica) coming in talking about booting Shambo, then changing it abruptly has to be considered. Full N for all? Probably not. The question is, who gets associated with that? If it's Monica, then Monica is N, whether you like it or not. How is that N, they're strategizing, and don't want Shambo to hear, please enlighten me.
cindidindi76		#1894	[-]
Posts: 20210 (10/24/09 12:25 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ugh. I hate it when I type up a reply and Yuku eats it. Anyways... Why do people keep referring to Monica as a "pretty white girl"? SHE'S. NOT. WHITE. Augustus, we are looking at the exact same thing and seeing two different results. I look at and say, "that's how he is, an N bastard." You look at it and say, "maybe, but he was right." Another way of looking at it - the conditions were dreadful. Awful, probably as crummy a few days as any survivor group has ever experienced. They were all trying to stay warm, to endure. Except two people, the Russells. One was so wiped out by trying to work hard that he was evacuated. The other just dissed all the whiners. Sorry, but what Russell H was doing was pointless. Working hard to what end? Yeah, he's built like a bull, this guy who WANTED to make his tribe miserable, who sabotaged them by burning clothes (think those clothes he burned might have helped his tribe stay warm and maintian energy?) and dumping their water. Hey, I'm just using the "relatively neutral" standard you suggested, looking at his edit over time. so let's do that.. He went out of his way to screw them up, and now they're suffering, and he calls them whiners. How can you agree with someone who went out of his way to make the others uncomfortable, and when conditions deteriorated, became uncomfortable - and he disses them? Yeah, that's exactly how he talks. From that perspective, the bastard was NN. But in this episode alone, he was typical Russell H. Make of that what you will. I couldn't agree more. One thing that alwasy drives me nuts in this thread is when people make their tone ratings relative. If any other player would get an N rating for saying or doing something Russell said or did, than he should get an N for it too. He shouldn't avoid an N rating because all he did was say some ass-ey stuff but didn't actually burn any clothes this episode.
cookie		#1895	[-]
Posts: 310 (10/24/09 12:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think people are rationalizing it wrong. Russell's COmment and tone with the episode and the recap Lead-in, show that he is thriving and powerful and in controL. The rain is only making our heros more weak and impossible to win, while it's hit home that there is no way Russell can be stopped. I actually kinda liked this Episode. It seemed to bring the show back to its Borneo roots- man versus the Elements. There's No way Russell isn't in the endgame, perhaps Last person voted out or gets trumped by someone in the final jury. Now we just have to look at who orbits around him and has been tied to the story. Natalie looks great as one of the dumb blonds that he sets up initially, who ironically wins OVer him. But there's just no meat to her first few Episodes -and undoubtedly that would have been exploited in some confessionals for substance. Liz is kind of in the same boat. Mick looks good and so does Jaison. I feel one of them is the winneR, and Natalie or Liz is just instrumental is Russell's major snag he faces in the penultimate episode. Shambo? Last purple standing.
BlakeB717		#1896	[-]
Posts: 1960 (10/24/09 1:41 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	McPhever224 wrote: goohst wrote: I do think that the scene with the clique girls (Kelly, Laura, Monica) coming in talking about booting Shambo, then changing it abruptly has to be considered. Full N for all? Probably not. The question is, who gets associated with that? If it's Monica, then Monica is N, whether you like it or not. How is that N, they're strategizing, and don't want Shambo to hear, please enlighten me. You're not looking at the editting intent. I completely agree with what they're doing: they don't want Shambo to hear, they're playing a game. I would have done the same; but the editors put that in there to make them look fake (notice how none of them got confessionals saying "We were strategizing and then we saw Shambo so we had to put it on hold") there was no narration about it--it was simply them walking, talking about how Sham needs to go and then being all like "SHHH SHHH.... Oh hey what're you doing ^_^" and Shambo didn't get a confessional about it, which made it look like she probably fell for their fakeness. Anyways, I don't want to analyze a little scene, but it looked bad on the girls. The editors didn't put that scene of them saying SHH SHH before their confrontation with Shambo to make it look like "Oh they're strategizing, they're doing what they have to". No, it was to look like they were being nasty--ESPECIALLY when Shambo asked them to be honest and tell her if they're putting her name down, Kelly and Monica said "It's so hard, I don't know what I'm going to do" when 5 seconds earlier they all decided for sure what they were doing. Maybe this makes all 3 women N, I'm not sure.
McPhever224		#1897	[-]
Posts: 358 (10/24/09 1:51 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: McPhever224 wrote: goohst wrote: I do think that the scene with the clique girls (Kelly, Laura, Monica) coming in talking about booting Shambo, then changing it abruptly has to be considered. Full N for all? Probably not. The question is, who gets associated with that? If it's Monica, then Monica is N, whether you like it or not. How is that N, they're strategizing, and don't want Shambo to hear, please enlighten me. You're not looking at the editting intent. I completely agree with what they're doing: they don't want Shambo to hear, they're playing a game. I would have done the same; but the editors put that in there to make them look fake (notice how none of them got confessionals saying "We were strategizing and then we saw Shambo so we had to put it on hold") there was no narration about it--it was simply them walking, talking about how Sham needs to go and then being all like "SHHH SHHH.... Oh hey what're you doing ^_^" and Shambo didn't get a confessional about it, which made it look like she probably fell for their fakeness. Anyways, I don't want to analyze a little scene, but it looked bad on the girls. The editors didn't put that scene of them saying SHH SHH before their confrontation with Shambo to make it look like "Oh they're strategizing, they're doing what they have to". No, it was to look like they were being nasty--ESPECIALLY when Shambo asked them to be honest and tell her if they're putting her name down, Kelly and Monica said "It's so hard, I don't know what I'm going to do" when 5 seconds earlier they all decided for sure what they were doing. Maybe this makes all 3 women N, I'm not sure. Maybe. You're probably right.
GoHomeAndEatYoRice		#1898	[-]
Posts: 2413 (10/24/09 2:31 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dr. Ramona was CPP2. <3
KillahNine		#1899	[-]
Posts: 34 (10/24/09 6:30 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think Russell S. should definitely be PP. I think the "M scene" is being misinterpreted. That scene was NOT put in there to make the viewer think "Wow, Russell S is an idiot - NEGATIVE". It was put there to explain WHY he had to get medevac'd and why he was so exhausted. It showed that he worked himself to the point of collapsing, further giving him P for his work ethic. This is reiterated again at the Galu beach when all the members are sad for his departure and again at Tribal Council when all the Galu tribemates echo that Russell S. was one of the hardest workers. To top it off, we end with a highly motivational/inspirational speech by Russell S. I think this is the most PP medevac scene Survivor has ever done.
BlakeB717		#1900	[-]
Posts: 1961 (10/24/09 7:23 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	KillahNine wrote: I think Russell S. should definitely be PP. I think the "M scene" is being misinterpreted. That scene was NOT put in there to make the viewer think "Wow, Russell S is an idiot - NEGATIVE". It was put there to explain WHY he had to get medevac'd and why he was so exhausted. It showed that he worked himself to the point of collapsing, further giving him P for his work ethic. This is reiterated again at the Galu beach when all the members are sad for his departure and again at Tribal Council when all the Galu tribemates echo that Russell S. was one of the hardest workers. To top it off, we end with a highly motivational/inspirational speech by Russell S. I think this is the most PP medevac scene Survivor has ever done. I'm going with Penner. His was beautiful: especially the bird imagery over the island/ocean. Penner's was unfair, Russ S' was still PP but to his own detriment.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

Quick Reply