I LUV TIJUANA wrote:
^
Your begging just makes me want to support Monica's edit more. Such substance! Monica wins. Even Stephen says so.
THIS. I even laminated it a few pages ago.
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Oowatanite |
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I LUV TIJUANA wrote: THIS. I even laminated it a few pages ago. |
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scepticA |
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So my INV3 for Monica is out the window, Oo?
How many more UTR1 or 2's in a row does it take before there is an admission that her edit sucks? Other people have better edits, other people have more air time. This tends to make those with lousy air time AND lousy edits not viable. That's all (No one here can seriously think that UTR UTR UTR is a solid or even slightly decent edit). How about this: Maybe if she won they'd have given her a little more air time. quoth Imperial: "The point is, if Monica won, how would she be edited? Given that all the action is occurring in the other tribe with Russell, Ben, and Jaison, and that Monica is not doing anything notable, what would the editors do with her if she's the winner?" They would make her somewhat memorable, perhaps rather pleasantly bland - enough so that viewers would be able to pick her out of a lineup. Each episode is for 72 hours of stuff in each tribe. So far, that's 216 hours of time. To think that Monica hasn't done anything, said anything, or mimed anything that was notable in 216 hours (or even something that the editors could transform into notable) would make her even less interesting than that tree stump who pretended to be Darrah. Just get her in a situation that would make the casual viewer remember her. And so far, even us edgic'rs have a hard time remembering her. Also - based on your nickname, Imperial Wizard - are you related to Ben? |
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guatemala fanfic |
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The efforts at trying to explain how Monica might - just might - be a valid edgic winner, often accompanied by the caveats "of course, it's a big IF... she isn't my FIRST choice, but she really can't be eliminated..." are fascinating.A few things on this: - I am trying to be prepared for a "Type B" winner so that there are other options if all of Foa Foa suddenly gets picked off. We've never had a season before where the editing gave 80-90% of the airtime to one tribe and a large portion of that to a single person. That leaves Galu with 10-20% of the airtime, and Monica is one of only two people who has had a presence in every episode (with Shambo being the other one). It's a small presence, but in all three episodes, she was put in there for seemingly no reason. If you look at the airtime her tribe is given, she suddenly becomes a stronger candidate. - To make a comparison, Monica right now is just like Parvati having a string of 3-4 UTR episodes (and 1 borderline INV) one right before the merge because she never went to Tribal Council. The story was on Malakal the whole time so there was no point in having her (Parvati) in the episodes for no reason when she was not involved. - The situation is also similar to Bob and Tom winning from a dominant tribe. The producers can't always get lucky with their winner. Tom got airtime on Koror because he was the leader and the important character there. Bob wasn't that interesting or that strategic so his airtime suffered. Ideally, someone from Foa Foa would win, but if the winner happens to be someone random like Bob, it just might happen that the winner happens to play no part in the first 3-4 episodes or whatever. - I have always looked for people who got unnecessary attention in the editing, like Aras getting the fire/meditation scene in the Exile Island premiere, Todd getting the scene with Jean-Robert, Tyson getting the nudity scene (that one didn't work out), and right now, Monica is fitting in to be one of those people. - I'm indifferent to Monica (and most of the cast) so I'm not playing favorites and trying to keep her in. The editing this season is different from the past and there are some definite anomalies that we've never dealt with before. Russell H. is another one. I think you have to kindof readjust and react based on that, and apply Edgic principles based on the situation of the season you're dealing with. If Monica was in Tocantins, I would have eliminated her already but both tribes were given fairly even airtime too. - As I've done since Episode 1, I'll keep the people like Mick, Ashley, Jaison, Liz, etc. as my top contenders by the traditional guidelines, but I still keep Monica and Russell H. as possible alternate-type winners. I fully understand the arguments that "if Russell wins, it's not Edgic." I think he's the reason for the exceptional circumstances to begin with, but I do think, given the situation of this season, Edgic could be reasonably applied to a Monica win so far. We'll see. I'm completely prepared to be wrong and if so, that's fine. |
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guatemala fanfic |
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scepticA wrote:But when is there time? It's a 42 minute episode and Foa Foa has lost the first three challenges and four players in three episodes. Of course, they are going to dominate the airtime. Then you have "super villain" Russell who is going to take up even more air time no matter what. The producers can't control which tribe the winner comes from, so *if* the winner happens to come from the dominant Galu tribe, there's already a very limited amount of time to show the winner simply due to everything else going on. If the winner is big character Shambo, great. If the winner happens to be the tribe chief, fine. He gets to be shown in Episode 1. But that's about all we got because that's all there was time for. Galu has only been very immediate because they haven't had to go to Tribal Council. We got Russell as the chief, Shannon as the outsider, as John as the obnoxious guy in Episode 1. If the winner happens to not be one of those people, then you have even less time to show them again. So regardless of what Monica did, if it wasn't relevant to what was going on, I don't think it would be shown. There's a scene of Erik finding a papaya tree in Episode 1. You could say that it would be shown if Erik won, but really there was no time and it was meaningless in the grand scheme of things. This is just the way I view the situation. It might not be "Edgic" per the guidelines, but it's still thinking logically about the editing. |
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ndralcasid |
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A couple of notes before I determine my ratings:
-With all the Monica discussion, I agree that we can't completely eliminate her. The top4 have a better shot than her and one of those 4 will probably win, but I still think she has the best shot on Galu to win (I do not see a winners edit with Shambo. AT ALL). -Laura and Monica have vis2. I don't get where the 1s are coming from, they had too much facetime to get vis1. -I don't get the N association with the yoga scene. When the scene first appears, calming music plays while Laura's confession gives a reasonable explaination for it, and after, it seemed Shambo was just doing random bitching. I don't think N really fits that scene. Initial rankings - Foa Foa: Ashley : MOR3 Liz : UTR1 Natalie : UTR2 Russell : CPN4 (I'm actually would be open to neutral tone this episode) Ben : OTTNN5 Jaison : OTTP5 Galu Monica : UTR2 Laura : UTR2 Kelly : INV1 Shannon : CPP4 Yasmin : UTR1 (would be INV if it weren't for the SPV during TC) Erik : UTR1 Dave : UTR1 John : UTR1 Brett : INV1 Russell : MORN3 |
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SkyDreamer |
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I think Ashley still has to be our top contender. She had to be shown this episode because she was a boot candidate, but I don't think we're supposed
to see her strategy yet. Right now it's the Russell show. For all that we know, she could have realized Russell is full of crap since day one. As long as
the editing focuses on Russell, we're not supposed to think anyone is strategically superior to him. So I think her not expressing any long term strategy,
is not necessarily a bad sign.
On an unrelated note - I'm in love with Jaison. The way he stood up for himself and defended the women was amazing. I really loved him mocking Ben's southern ways, because most of the people from the south are annoying. I haven't enjoyed anyone's elimination as much as Ben's since, well, last year's Ben. This name is cursed. |
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chapera rocks |
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GF states everything so perfectly.
SAMOA IS A UNIQUE SEASON. Get that through your heads. Every season is not the same, Edgic "rules" cannot be applied universally, and to try and do that is stupid. Look for manipulation, look for unnecessary focus in those that cannot be eliminated (via INV1). There is no past edit that is even close to hers. Even Danni got a MOR2 in the second episode and I seem to remember her having an early introduction as some type of sports reporter or something. I know nothing about Monica.1. Her rating in episode 2 should not have been MOR, it should have been UTR. 2. Her episode one edit consisted of her saying that Bobby Jon was hot, and that's it. 3. She said she was a sports caster briefly in episode 2, then proceeded to say that Gary is a football player. She had a terrible edit. |
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SurvivorNinja |
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I think the Yoga thing was more mixed than negative. I was watching the episode with my mom (who is a casual fan upset with not knowing the entire cast yet)
and when that scene came up and Laura had her confessional my mom was like "Wow that's not a bad idea at all. It'll relax you and could prepare
you for a challenge". Then when Shambo started bitching my mom laughed and said "Oh well they need to get their shit done first of course" but
she still thought it was a funny moment and my mom was very light hearted about it and it made her like what little we've seen of Laura/Erik/Brett/Kelly.
Maybe my mom just has a dark sense of humor like I do but I'd say it was more mixed. |
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ColonelBird |
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Laura seems to lean N to me--or at least her portrayal. Snarky comments about Shambo, leader of the Yoga crew, and that memorable vicious water to
Ashley's face moment in the immunity challenge. I think she leans UTRN.
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wallduck |
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Brett INV
Dave UTR1 Erik UTR2 John UTR1 Kelly UTR2: I guess. I can't really tell the bimbos apart, there's just too many this season. Laura: see Kelly Monica: see Kelly goodRussell UTR2: whoa, Russell reveals one of the secrets of happiness ... on Survivor yet! But it can't be counted toward P tone because 1) he's surrounded by narcissistic child-men and 2) a big part of the viewing audience also falls into that category Shambo OTT4: P for enthusiasm canceled by N for narrow-mindedness Yasmin INV Ashley MOR4: could easily have been edited CP, but editors declined the opportunity Ben OTTN5 Jaison OTTP5: not a good episode for him, but I suppose you can argue that the dramatic good-versus-evil angle was too good to pass up Liz UTR1 Mick CPP4: weak P, coming mostly by comparison to the silliness that surrounds him Natalie: see Kelly badRussell CPN5: but I could see OTTN5 because it's the same stuff over and over and over I know Mick reminds us of Marcus, but I don't see a Bob and I'm tired of pretending I think it's anybody but Mick. |
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Fart Party |
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I think a likely scenario is Russell going far, getting knocked out before the end, and essentially leave the winning to a pretty random person with the least
jury alienation. He's playing early and like Rob C. or Kenny-Crystal-Sugar, even Tyson-Coach, you can't have strong strategic forces both noticeable
and playing hard early without basically creating a meltdown in the end game.
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TheWizard |
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scepticA wrote:The easy comparison is Shambo. Every episode she gets a significant scene. Yes, they had to include the scene of her in the other camp - but they didn't have to make it quite so long and have so much positive SPV, nor did they have to include the yoga scene, nor did they need to include last week's fishing scene. None of those things are integral to the plot of the show, but they're there - clearly, Shambo is a big character who makes a big difference on the game. Now, obviously Shambo is more of a "personality" than Monica - but at the very least, they could have had Monica commenting on Shambo! |
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scepticA |
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guatemala fanfic wrote:These weren't at the beginning. A diminishment in air time for a winner is common (Chris, Yul as examples) but only after the person has been established by the editing. We knew Parv's philosophy and approach to FvF thanks to solid edits early. So too Chris (always in the game) and Yul (Smart, calm). We know zip about Monica. UTRs in pre-merge eps are fine. UTRs to start the season are not. In a later post, Guat wrote: "It might not be "Edgic" per the guidelines..." My response is: thank you. You are one of the few to say it. Nothing wrong with the stuff you write, in fact I enjoy it, especially because you make it clear it isn't per edgic. The Wiz asked why they couldn't have even had a confessional or comment from Monica about Shambo. That's a very good point, the sort of thing that would have made her MOR. But they didn't. It's about Shambo for a reason. |
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chapera rocks |
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scepticA wrote:You're acting like edgic is perfect. It's not because many winners do not follow the guidelines. It's not because the winner wasn't correctly picked on several seasons. This season is nothing like the others, editing wise, so on that principle alone, this thread should be locked. But no, you have to look past that and adapt edgic for the season. (PS she did comment on Shambo in episode 2). Bottom line: If Monica doesn't get a good episode when she goes to tribal, she's eliminated. Bottom line: If Monica gets an INV1 at any point, she's eliminated. Bottom line: Her edit could be explained if she is the winner. Bottom line: This shouldn't even be this big of an issue until Galu goes to TC. And that's that. |
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Oowatanite |
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Armitage Shanks wrote: Good observation. The comparison of Galu/FoaFoa to Kota/Fang can be made. If there's a switchup, edgicers will have to keep an eye out for a "Bob". |
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guatemala fanfic |
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(PS she did comment on Shambo in episode 2).Agreed. And I think you make a very valid point about the guidelines being flexible too. It doesn't make sense to try and apply rigid guidelines to a season that has been like nothing before. We need to understand WHY it's different so far (ie. Galu winning streak for 3+ episodes, huge villain Russell, etc.) and HOW it's different and then adjust the basic principles of the guidelines to accommodate that. |
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Niczez.votefortheworst |
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Another logical way to approach the Monica question is, instead of assuming her the winner, to assume her not the winner. Is there another valid reason for
her seemingly random commentary? I think so. She could be the last Galu standing, she could be the center of the Galu force post-merge, or she could be
simply be the only one of the silent Galu women who has provided remotely interesting sound bites. Most of what she's said qualifies as simple narration
to me. We know nothing about her. That's enough to eliminate her for me.
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Oowatanite |
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AbbyGirl wrote:The purple tribe isn't being shown much because (a) the editors are pimping of Evil Russell and his repetitive assinine confessionals, (b) most of the drama is on the crazy yellow tribe and (c) the yellow tribe has lost four members in three episodes. FoaFoa is down 10-6. I anticipate either a tribe swap where some Galus end up in the minority on one tribe and are picked off or a merge with mostly Galu and where some FoaFoa member sneaks to the endgame by allying with some Galu members. There better not be some sort of ridiculous "message-in-a-bottle" crapola like in CI (Probst: Hey Galu, welcome to your first TC. Here's a bottle with a message. You're voting out three members tonight. Helluva twist, eh ?). And if it happens, the tribe swap better not be a switchup from 10-6 to 8-8. |
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goohst |
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Posts: 1167 (10/02/09 1:26 PM) |
I think we need to keep limits on stretching limits. Is Monica better than the rest of Galu? According to edgic, yes, but that does NOT mean she has a good
edit. It's like saying Coach is a better edgic pick than Debbie. Is his edit better than Debbie's edgically? Yes, but that does not mean that Coach has
an edgically viable edit. This season is different in that so many people have been eliminated early, but Monica still CANNOT be considered in the running
unless edgic completely kills all 20 castaways. If that happens, nonEdgic would in fact look at Monica before, say, Kelly or Dave, but Monica should not be
considered in the running as of now.
Some things we should be looking at are the edits of Jaison, Liz, Ashley, Mick, Russell, and Shambo. Russell has been CPN5 in every episode this season. He's an OTT character with a CP storyline. Don't forget that. He's being edited as complex. That has some significant ramifications. They could just as easily made him a loony Coach style character. But they aren't. Mick's got the connection with Russell, and the only one to get a connection not immediately pushed as false. That's good for his chances. Liz's edit wasn't that bad for her chances. She got positive SPV from Jeff and Shambo, and was in multiple scenes. Would a CPP3 have helped her more? Of course. Does her UTRP2 hurt her that bad this week? No. Next week? She needs to be shown. |
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Oowatanite |
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Ya know, all this whining about dropping Monica edgically would carry a lot more weight if the same whiners didn't have Ep1 OTTNN5
RussHole still on their edgic winner lists.
'jes sayin' |
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