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S-18 Edgic (editing and logic) - Tocantins

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OnlyTheHunter		#4821	[-]
Posts: 1996 (05/15/09 12:02 AM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	sceptica said They could build that up in the first hour of the finale, but right now - again, to the non-edgic watcher - would anything but a JT/Stephen final 2 be satisfying for them? Need to contribute something to Edgic before a weekend with the kids before watching the finale. Palau. The battle was Tom vs Ian. And we got it. And once it ended, we spent 30 minutes knowing Katie would be decimated. Same thing here. Stephen is the wizard who outfoxes Taj (who's "trusting" Stephen and JT to be third, so she's fourth) and JT and easily beats Erinn after one of them holds off JT in the last IC. I suspected forever that the turn is Stephen removing JT, I was just off that it's at the finale and not earlier. Most fans I know expect JT to win. But they also like Stephen. Hope everyone is great. Michael
getting real		#4822	[-]
Posts: 1745 (05/15/09 12:24 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dissimilis mused: This line of thinking could just be a side effect of my not being a nice or sympathetic person though. I very much doubt that that's really the case, Diss. However, here's a question. If you were on Survivor and you used that line, what tone should you attract?
augustus713		#4823	[-]
Posts: 119 (05/15/09 1:16 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Coach is either a plant or he needs to be in a mental institution, the man has gone WAY WAY WAY off the deep end. Coach: OTTNNNNNNNNNNNNNN6 Erinn: MORN3 JT: MOR3 Stephen: CP3 Taj: UTR2 Winner: Stephen
Sploch		#4824	[-]
Posts: 883 (05/15/09 2:15 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Stephen is going to backstab JT next episode. This entire episode alluded to it: first, the lingering shot of JT when Stephen talks about needing to get rid of threats then a very manipulated coach final words when he calls Stephen a dark Wizard (the wizard being a running stephen motif) the most damning evidence was also in Coachs final words when he said 'you can tell by the way he reacted' that stephen was the one who flipped. watch stephen this episode when he was lying. he puts his head down. he can't look the person in the eyes. he did this to coach twice, once by the water, once at TC. but, more importantly, he gives the same motion to JT making a toast to the final two on the reward. could this have just been reality? sure, but i sure thought it was intentionally focused on and then called out in the final words. not to mention, this episode had more 'stephen and jt are in charge' confessionals than ever before. erinn said she has an alliance with stephen and jt (and taj, unsaid). coach wants to talk to stephen and jt. taj trusts her alliance with stephen and jt. jt toasts he and stephen final two. the only person who doesn't mention this is stephen.
getting real		#4825	[-]
Posts: 1746 (05/15/09 2:27 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Very early in the season, I posted this: I'm starting to think that the coach's mantra about the strongest surviving and praying for a worthy opponent will suffer from the general malaise afflicting the coach and work in reverse. Instead of the strong and worthy being a theme, the reverse may hold: That is, the coach's demise may come at the hands of a weak and an unworthy adversary. His opponent's weakness and unworthiness may well only exist in his own mind rather than in the audience's collective mind. However, it's just as possible that a person who has the last laugh may actually be edited as weak and/or unworthy. That would be the ultimate insulting contradiction for the coach and would satisfy Burnett's penchant for irony. ETA: The editing is making it painfully obvious that the Coach himself is neither strong nor worthy. Witness his challenge performances. It seems that it's coming to pass that Coach's anti-Midas' touch has indeed extended to the 'worthy opponent' theme. Now that his demise has come at the hands of someone he no longer considers worthy (a point was made to include those sentiments in the Coach's last words), it has certainly come to pass that 'his opponent's weakness and unworthiness may well only exist in his own mind rather than in the audience's collective mind'. Moreover, the final four consists of three unworthy (at least in his own eyes) opponents. And, in a final homage to Coach, the impotent, Don Quixotic caricature, the final and two and the winner are nothing like Coach envisaged. From beginning to end, he was edited to be wrong, wrong, wrong...
chaperone		#4826	[-]
Posts: 2669 (05/15/09 4:27 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Wow what a fun season. I'm a bit disappointed that the editors gave Coach so much air time, mostly in the sense that the dripping narcissism is dangerous to reward, but of course it makes wonderful TV (if not somewhat vomit inducing). I wonder many things, but tonight Coach had a couple brief moments of self-awareness, particularly at the beginning as he recognized that he was on the outs (only noteworthy because of his previous delusions). If anything that bumps his NN to an N in my mind, but I think his final rating this week will rightly be reflected with a handful of NN's, many N's, and a M or two. That's the beauty of edgic's data gathering...vote your conscience and all is good. As for analysis, my anti-Erinn stuff is based on early season edit. She's had a good run the last couple episodes - but edgic's work to me is in the early season. I do fear the SEG poorly edited female winner curse, but am not sure how to predictively account for that, and still think Stephen's the right edgic choice for me. Taj is probably the worst of the 4 remaining, and Erinn and JT 3/2 (not in game placement but edgic evaluation for my money). Erinn's kicking Coach's butt on the way to exile was just as socially awkward as Coach's ego-driven-monastic comment (oh he sooo doesn't get the monastics if he has to shout his piety from the rooftop!).
redbuff		#4827	[-]
Posts: 20 (05/15/09 5:07 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	For Stephen to really be a master mind he has to get rid of JT or he's just dumb. And so far everyone who seems to "want to help" JT win--Stephen gets rid of--Brendan, Debbie, Coach--but it's been subtle. Stephen and JT in the water and JT says--Brendan really wants to help me win--bye brendan. Debbie I'll give you the idol (to JT)--bye Debbie. Coach wants to go up JT at the end--bye Coach. Each time Stephen could have sent someone else out. So it's either good bye JT or Stephen deserves to loose.
dennydoylelives		#4828	[-]
Posts: 2860 (05/15/09 6:49 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Coach - OTTN. I'm pretty sure the OTT can go without explanation, but sorry to those people saying he's P, every P moment was quickly torn down with reactions the audience is conditioned to agree with, most significantly from Taj, but even from Erinn, (even if Erinn had an instance of being undiplomatic in saying what the audience was thinking.) He's N, not NN. Coach was never deliberately cruel, like Fat NY dude from the Steph-a-ME-ME-ME season. He was portrayed as a delusional buffoon, nothing more nothing less. That's OTTN territory. Erinn - MORN. It's not so much what she said, it's the situation she said it in. Yes, the audience agrees that Coach was making a martyr of himself with his pronouncement of self-deprivation at Exile, despite his copious injuries. But it's bad form to openly mock him as he's leaving for Exile. Wait until you get back to camp to mock him. Like Stephen said, it's like rubbing salt in the wound, especially after the support everyone showed her when she went to Exile. JT - MOR. I suppose you could argue a CP, but I really think they gave Stephen much of JT's complexity. Stephen - CP. The winner. Taj - MOR. Borderline UTR, but I think she had enough of an impact on the episode to avoid it, but surely not enough for CP. As far as the JT/Stephen F2 not being a surprise, the surprise in the Edgic guidelines doesn't necessarily mean that one or both of the F2 aren't supposed to be there, but that something in the outcome is not easily predicted by the average viewer with certainty, (i.e. there is doubt surrounding the outcome.) The person who brought up the Ozzy/Yul comparison was right on the money. To the average viewer, either could win. It was a toss-up. Hell, Edgic was torn over the winner. Kind of like this season. Consensus may say Stephen/Yul, but a lot of people aren't eliminating JT, and many couldn't bring themselves to eliminate Ozzy. It's a situation where the editors hope the viewers will be on the edge of their seats until the last vote is read. Some people are saying they've been hammering us over the head with Stephen-JT all season, as if there have been no distractions. Hello Coach, hello tall blonde dorky dickhead, (the one named after a chicken company.) Brendan and Sierra both acted as early season distractions. Even Joe's injury provided distraction. There hasn't been a lack of distractions. And I realize this was dismissed by some people last week, but I'll say again, the game situation was enough "doubt" to make it unnecessary for the editors to manipulate more into the show. Down 6-3 is sufficient doubt for the viewers. If they made that remarkable comeback, and the editors didn't show how it was done, they would have failed in basic storytelling. You manipulate people in power to look in danger when they succeed to keep the tension. But when you have a substantial underdog prevailing, (and yes, being down 6-3 is a substantial underdog position), you don't hide it, you showcase it.
unduli clone		#4829	[-]
Posts: 5700 (05/15/09 7:53 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Coach - OTTNN5 He had me laughing at how ludicrous he was all episode, but when I sat back and thought about it, NN is the only option for me. An N seems a given, with his ridiculous pandering, his attempts to get the women Exile'd, his obviously fake injuries (reinforced by the other players), and especially with the jury reactions, but I think that given how OTT his edit was that NN is the best choice. The OTTN was hammered over and over again in our minds that it becomes an OTTNN just as a reinforcement of the editors as to what Coach really is. Erinn - CPN3 I thought that her discussion with Taj back at camp after the "kick 'em while he's down" fiasco was clearly CP, as was her TC answers. If she's not CP, she has to be OTT. MOR just doesn't fit at all. I bumped her up to a 3 because as a boot target and a heavy focus at TC I think she escaped a 2. JT - CP3 yawn Stephen - CP3 Great episode for Stephen, again. Shows that he's into the game, whereas JT is into the F2 pairing of him and Stephen. Taj - MOR2 Tempted to go OTT with all her eyerolls and her few confessionals being about how retarded Coach is, but MOR may be a better fit. ---- ELIMINATED: Taj (I think this is the only finale where I've had only one remaining player on the Eliminated List!) WINNERS: Stephen (88%) Erinn (12%) JT (0%) --- The Jury Connections Erinn - Though not clearly connected with either Brendan or Debbie, Erinn has obvious connections to Tyson and Coach, as well as a bit of connection with Sierra (from the pre-merge and Sierra's boot episode). She'll be mildly connected with any of the Jalapaos who are in the jury. JT - Strongly connected with Coach, good ties to Debbie, and mild ties to Brendan, Tyson and Sierra. He'll be strongly connected to Stephen or Taj if they're on the jury, and mildly connected with Erinn if she's there. Stephen - Strongly connected with Brendan, Debbie and Coach. He has ties to Sierra, not so much Tyson. He'll be connected to anyone else who makes the jury in the finale. Taj - Strongly connected with Brendan and Sierra. She has some ties to Debbie and Coach, but I see nothing with Tyson. She'll be connected to whoever makes the jury. --- I'm pretty sure that Taj won't face the jury. I'm certain that Stephen will, which is where we'll finally get our Exile Alliance payoff, as well as the Coach "betrayal." JT is more connected to Stephen than to anyone on the jury, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's Erinn facing the jury instead. Tyson's edit will come full circle when he pounds Erinn at the TC questioning, and of course Coach will get in on it too.
TallBill		#4830	[-]
Posts: 24 (05/15/09 8:23 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	scepticA wrote: There are only two options: He is not for real, he is for real. He is for real. He was called out on his bullshit several times. Or he was shown to be called out on it several times. Who knows how many times he was actually called out on it. The deep anxiety it produced in him each time is hard to fake -- and, if he were goofing around, he probably wouldn't have that deeply emotional/childish reaction each time. That being the case, your other point is very true. He should not have been on this show. He needs to be on a couch somewhere at least three times a week talking to a counselor ... slowly working his way out of his spectacularly delusional narcissism. While I really hated him on this show, I'm also sort of scared for the guy.
TallBill	Coach N or NN?	#4831	[-]
Posts: 25 (05/15/09 9:02 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	dennydoylelives wrote: Coach - OTTN. I'm pretty sure the OTT can go without explanation, but sorry to those people saying he's P, every P moment was quickly torn down with reactions the audience is conditioned to agree with, most significantly from Taj, but even from Erinn, (even if Erinn had an instance of being undiplomatic in saying what the audience was thinking.) He's N, not NN. Coach was never deliberately cruel, like Fat NY dude from the Steph-a-ME-ME-ME season. He was portrayed as a delusional buffoon, nothing more nothing less. That's OTTN territory. I kind of wondered while watching if he would be N or NN. There was a definite theme of sympathy for his apparent injuries and difficulties on Exile, but he was also shown to be the ultimate OTT drama queen on those same topics. I think you could say he was edited in this episode, and the whole season, as the most deeply and thoroughly ridiculous character in Survivor history. As such, he is NN, or as many N's as you can put in a row. The real capper was the very end, with his sexist comments that basically said the perspectives of the remaining women players were invalid ... followed immediately by the poem. If there were an NNNNNNNNNN rating, I'd go for it. An N-infinity rating I would consider. Of course, I don't do edgic ratings. I've been a lurker and occasional contributor on Sucks since season one, but never done ratings.
colleenlover		#4832	[-]
Posts: 9289 (05/15/09 9:03 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I have more issue with the show putting this man on and exploiting him. Its national exposure can't be good for him, either with an extreme positive portrayal or negative one. He lives in a fantasy arrested development world and placing him in a heightened fabricated reality with cameras and production values was probably not the smartest move.
Brazil Luvs Ami		#4833	[-]
Posts: 311 (05/15/09 9:29 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ratings: Coach - OTTN5 - I can see he voting for Erinn if the F2 is Erinn and Stephen, it wll be fun Erinn - CPN2 JT - MORM3 - lacks complexity, and why include that line that he would step down for more meat when he had just returned from a Reward feast?? Stephen - CP3 - Perfect Taj - MOR2 Winner: STEPHEN
Oowatanite		#4834	[-]
Posts: 7647 (05/15/09 9:46 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	colleenlover wrote: I have more issue with the show putting this man on and exploiting him. Its national exposure can't be good for him, either with an extreme positive portrayal or negative one. He lives in a fantasy arrested development world and placing him in a heightened fabricated reality with cameras and production values was probably not the smartest move. Or he's just a mactor.
Oowatanite		#4835	[-]
Posts: 7648 (05/15/09 9:48 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	9RedWing19 wrote: the Wings won a tough Game 7 - today is a good day. Watch out for those young Hawks !!
Katy Carney		#4836	[-]
Posts: 6030 (05/15/09 10:03 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I had a dream last night that Coach was on a morning talk show and revealed he was a British actor by the name of Bartholomew and I screamed at the tv "I KNEW IT!"
colleenlover		#4837	[-]
Posts: 9290 (05/15/09 10:25 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: colleenlover wrote: I have more issue with the show putting this man on and exploiting him. Its national exposure can't be good for him, either with an extreme positive portrayal or negative one. He lives in a fantasy arrested development world and placing him in a heightened fabricated reality with cameras and production values was probably not the smartest move. Or he's just a mactor. potato, pahtatoe
9RedWing19		#4838	[-]
Posts: 2552 (05/15/09 10:26 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: 9RedWing19 wrote: the Wings won a tough Game 7 - today is a good day. Watch out for those young Hawks !! I think the Hawks have a better chance of winning than Erinn.
Oowatanite		#4839	[-]
Posts: 7649 (05/15/09 10:47 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	dissimilis wrote: For me I ended up rolling my eyes at Stephen and JT that they could be so gullible to even think of falling for Coach's bullshit and I loved that Taj and Erinn were not buying that crap. THIS Erinn gets N for the negative SVP from JT and Stephen. She doesn't get N for calling Coach out on his martyrdom. Coach started the ball rolling with his "I'm not gonna eat or drink or sleep or breathe while I'm in Exile, aren't I a Warrior?" crapola. Erinn called him out on this bullshit and Coach goes into "poor me" mode - "that's kinda harsh", "Erinn's been pickin' on me all season long". Waaah, waaah, waaah ....... Stephen was just pandering for Coach's vote with his sympathetic comments to Coach -"are you okay Coach", "Erinn's just so mean to you Coach". JT bought the Coach bullshit hook, line and sinker and this reflects badly on him and on his chances. Taj let her eyerolls do the talking at the challenges and at TC.
getting real		#4840	[-]
Posts: 1747 (05/15/09 10:49 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Down 6-3 is sufficient doubt for the viewers. If they made that remarkable comeback, and the editors didn't show how it was done, they would have failed in basic storytelling. Actually, that raises an interesting non-editing issue. How was it done? Obviously, Timbira self-destructed, but why? It's easy to just say that they were morons or to blame Coach's cluelessness. But surely there must have been reasons that make more rational sense? I suspect that the answer may have had a lot to do with Taj. Throughout, it has looked like Tyson, Coach and Debbie completely underestimated the bond between Taj amd JT/Stephen. For the audience who were in on the Jalapao dynamics, it has seemed baffling for T/C/D to steadfastedly continue to assume that JT/Stephen regarded Taj as expendable. I can only conclude that they must have kept holding onto Brendan's early mis-information (given by him for the purposes of covering up for the Exile Alliance) that Taj was on the outer at Jalapao and did not re-appraise the situation until it was too late. Thus, the Exile Alliance had its effect on the season. Just not in a way that was envisaged.

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