S18 - Episode 12 - Story Arcs - MESS Hall Tribal Council - Spoiler Related - Survivor Sucks - Message Board

0 Kudo

S18 - Episode 12 - Story Arcs

Started By	Comment
ratsnsnakes		#41	[-]
Posts: 868 (05/12/09 7:56 AM) MESS member More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	^^^^^^^^^^ In agreement, Trix. It is a great antidote to last year to see the Timbiras not taking the game to Ponderosa with them. They genuinely understand that it's a game. It will be interesting to see if Coach feels the same way (and personally, I want him off my TV screen this week!) I'd initially thought that JT could win against anyone left in the game, but Stephen could be pretty persuasive in his statements at final TC and might get some votes. Yeah, I suspect we will be minus the drama this time around, but that could be refreshing.
urrout		#42	[-]
Posts: 1866 (05/12/09 8:08 AM) Registered user More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	My problem is why is nobody trying to stop them? Even JT and Stephen claim they don't know why. And if they don't know why, I have a hard time rooting for them. And if they take each other to the F2, then for me everything they have done to get there will have been erased. We will have another Colby/ Tina and the one who took the other should lose. We haven't even seen much interaction between Stephen and the Timberas. It's always JT and even then nothing that would make them throw their game away. I want to see how he is convincing these people. Timbera is so split that they will not work with each other even for a million dollars? Because this is the only reason I have seen. Maybe it goes back to Stephen's quote about "falling half-assed backwards into an alliance" is the answer for me. They are still there simply because they were on the other team. I want to know what Taj and Erinn's plans are for their endgame. Does JT have a F2 with Erinn and Stephen with Taj? This would explain why they (mostly Erinn) have stuck with them. But if one ends up taking the other to the F2 instead, then they have thrown away their game away, imo.
Oowatanite		#43	[-]
Posts: 7602 (05/12/09 9:27 AM) Registered User More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	urrout wrote: My problem is why is nobody trying to stop them? Even JT and Stephen claim they don't know why. And if they don't know why, I have a hard time rooting for them. And if they take each other to the F2, then for me everything they have done to get there will have been erased. We will have another Colby/ Tina and the one who took the other should lose. We haven't even seen much interaction between Stephen and the Timberas. It's always JT and even then nothing that would make them throw their game away. I want to see how he is convincing these people. Timbera is so split that they will not work with each other even for a million dollars? Because this is the only reason I have seen. Maybe it goes back to Stephen's quote about "falling half-assed backwards into an alliance" is the answer for me. They are still there simply because they were on the other team. I want to know what Taj and Erinn's plans are for their endgame. Does JT have a F2 with Erinn and Stephen with Taj? This would explain why they (mostly Erinn) have stuck with them. But if one ends up taking the other to the F2 instead, then they have thrown away their game away, imo. THIS Trix, my problem with a JT/Stephen F2 is that they'll get too much credit for reaching the F2 when, in fact, it was simply the massive stupidity of the Timbira Five that got the Paos to the end. Brendan and Tyson and Sierra and Debbie and Coach ought to be ASHAMED of themselves and their gameplay this season. They blew a 6-3 advantage after the merge. The Paos didn't approach anybody for alliances after the merge to save themselves. Heck, even Erinn had to approach JT using Joe as the conduit. And it was Coach who approached JT after the merge for the Warrior alliance. In fact, the Paos blew up the EA right away when they dumped Brendan. Then they blew up the WA when they dumped Tyson. Only the collective chaotic stupidity of Coach and Sierra and Debbie prevented the four remaining Timbiras from possibly wresting control of the game away from the Paos.
MissRabbit		#44	[-]
Posts: 841 (05/12/09 9:59 AM) MESS member More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	^^^^ DITTO there were 2 alliance chances for the Jalapao to take over the game. In a normal season (is there such a thing?), they would have had to rely on those crucial alliances to claw their way to the end. Instead, they threw them away. WHy? cause the others around them were self-destructing. JT/Stephen pretty much had to assume the crash position,wait for the dust to clear then voila! They're F2. Don't get me wrong, i like JT and Stephen and have been rooting for Stephen to win since the start. My problem with all this (and other reality shows) is that I do not like a winner that pretty much coasts through to the end with very little effort on their part. no one is trying to stop them. They're not having to wheel and deal and work to get to the end. They get to sit back like fat cats and pick and choose whom to keep and whom to get rid of. I'm actually hoping Erinn and Taj try and pull a coup. Or that Stephen turns on JT. I just want something to be stirred up so the WIN is actually earned instead of handed to them. It's outsmart, outlast, outplay... not just outlast, which is all they've really had to do.
rower	Episode 12 - Story Arcs	#45	[-]
Posts: 2076 (05/12/09 10:06 AM) Registered User More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatantie - You are right.... except that you can't take anything away from Stephen and JT because the Jals were stupid. JT said at the merge that his goal was to make them (Tims) hate each other. But he didn't have to because for the most part the Tims never, ever played as a team. JT/Stephne have never been targeted because the Jals were always focusing on personal likes and dislikes based on gameplay prior to the merge. The Tims were always a teams within a team from day one. They were suspicious or disdainful of their own tribemates and frankly when the merge came, I'm sure that JT/Taj/Stephen were a breath of fresh air because they didn't "take sides" so everyone trusted them. Sure the Tims will go down in Survivor history as the dumbest team ever but don't discount the social/strategy skills of JT/Stephen and Taj. It would have been easy for them to have targeted the Coach/Tyson/Debbi alliance first but they were astute enough to go after Brenden first and then pretend to go along with the C/T/D plans. The three Jals have played a brilliant game, one that has never been seen before on Survivor as evidenced by their taking out a tribe of 6 with only 3 members.
rower	Episode 12 - Story Arcs	#46	[-]
Posts: 2077 (05/12/09 10:16 AM) Registered User More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I love you Miss Rabbit - but come on. "coast to the end with very little effort?" Just because JT/Stephen are not overt in their strategy it doesn't mean they haven't had any. We have seen the three Jals meet at every juncture to discuss their next move. It is never done as a dictatorship but as a consesus. We saw the same thing with Romber. Except this time the Tims seemed to think (mostly Coach) that the game is going according to "his" [coaches] plan. JT/Stephen/Taj set up the Brenden/Tyson/Debbi blindsides. They were the swing votes. They deserve the win. My bigger question for this season is that WHY would the Tims blindly follow Coach to the slaughter? In my humble opinion, the best finale iw when you have no idea where the votes will fall and the two finalists played a game that they could be proud of. But this is just my opinion.
Martrae		#47	[-]
Posts: 1791 (05/12/09 10:18 AM) MESS member More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Stephen and JT worked on the cracks in Timbira so well they had Timbira coming to them. They played the loyalty card so well that Timbira self destructed before their very eyes with no blame attached to them. What's not to love about that?
MissRabbit		#48	[-]
Posts: 842 (05/12/09 10:24 AM) MESS member More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	sure they met to discuss their new plan of action but it was simply to choose whether to wear the blue or red tie today. They were safe either way. They could pick and choose whom they wanted to dismiss without any effort at all. That's the kind of winner i don't like. If there had even been one or two episodes where there was a seriously possible threat against one of them going, and they fought back to save themselves, it would have made all the difference in the world. I will give credit to Stephen for pushing JT into eliminating Brendan and Debbie, after they both promised to take JT to the end. That helped his "end game" on an individual level. But at the same time, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion he would be there in the end for it to even matter.
Trixiego		#49	[-]
Posts: 16874 (05/12/09 10:26 AM) Kiss me, I'm Adminish More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Okay, I get that and understand to an extent but a lot of this game and the outcome is based upon the screw ups made by others which I can get annoyed at also but as rower said about not taking anything away from the winner because of that. I could probably give examples in a bunch of the seasons; I guess I'm asking the question in it of itself as opposed to the manner that any finalist gets there. With respect to JT/Stephen though, and the issue of why no one tried to stop them which bugs some, well, maybe that should be credited more to Stephen and JT's game play to a degree. They really managed (as I said in my earlier post) to ingratiate themselves with this other tribe. We have seen people merge and a tribe may really like someone from the other tribe but they still went ahead and booted them. Sure we could say that the Timbs are just that dumb but maybe also JT/Stephen really read these people correctly that they knew when to approach/not approach, make a suggestion or just agree that got them where they are. Obviously I am just throwing this out there because I wasn't so much asking about how they got there but rather why there seems to be so much "ewwww" on them being there and for me, just by virtue of what I've seen of them and how they were "created" through the season, I think they are a pretty decent final two but I appreciate the feedback because I really was at a loss as to some of the posts (everywhere, not just in here) of what a horrible final two this would be.
rower	Episode 12 - Story Arcs	#50	[-]
Posts: 2079 (05/12/09 10:29 AM) Registered User More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I agree Martrae - What I meant but you said it better. As to reality shows, I am so sick of people picking "final two goats" and keeping the scummy/undeserving till the end because they know they will wipe the floor with them at tribal, etc. etc. What if the show ends with three likable people who played the deck they were dealt and made a winning hand of it? I love it. (Of course we don't really know who the final two is going to be so the scenario of a JT/Stephen final two still may not come to pass.)
birdlady		#51	[-]
Posts: 2627 (05/12/09 10:30 AM) Registered user More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	By the time Joe soared away, everyone left out there believed they were in at least an F5 alliance with JT and Stephen. And was happy about it, happy enough to toss away their other options. Maybe Timbira hung themselves, but Jalapao showed them where the rope was, explained about knots, validated past hangings, and them shut their mouths and let them do it. It's more subtle, but arranging for someone to beat themselves is not nothing.
Oowatanite		#52	[-]
Posts: 7604 (05/12/09 10:44 AM) Registered User More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	rower wrote: The three Jals have played a brilliant game, one that has never been seen before on Survivor as evidenced by their taking out a tribe of 6 with only 3 members. Here's the thing - the Paos DID NOT take out a tribe of six. The Timbira Five self-immolulated. The Paos sat back and watched. There's no brilliance in that. It's just like the women screwing up in Vanuatu. It's just like the Rotus screwing up in Marquesas. It's just like Steph's crew screwing up in Guatemala. Chris won because he was weaker than Sarge & Chad. Vee won because she was weaker than Rob and Sean. Danni won because she was weaker than Gary and Bobby Jon and Brandon.
urrout		#53	[-]
Posts: 1868 (05/12/09 10:46 AM) Registered user More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Trixiego wrote: I guess I'm asking the question in it of itself as opposed to the manner that any finalist gets there. With respect to JT/Stephen though, and the issue of why no one tried to stop them which bugs some, well, maybe that should be credited more to Stephen and JT's game play to a degree. JT and Stephen claim they don't know why so it is hard for me to give them full credit because it means it is not just their game play that got them where they are. What are they going to say at FTC when asked? I have no problem with only one of them making the F2 but if both do then it is proof that is not their game play alone that got them there. But it does give credit to the one who is chosen and will make them a good winner.
erickman		#54	[-]
Posts: 20601 (05/12/09 11:25 AM) MESS member More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	it is the timbira 6 not 5 erin has as much to do with them lossing as anyone else. an jt is playing a good game guy catches fish he gets along good with people an can be good at challanges, if they are too dumb to get rid of him early they desirve to lose to him. i rember watching season 1 at f8 i said if they don't vote rich out now he will win.
Oowatanite		#55	[-]
Posts: 7605 (05/12/09 12:13 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	No, it's the Timbira Five. It's quite appropriate for the lowest person in the pecking order to swing to the other side. And Erinn was away at Exile when dumbasses Sierra, Debbie and Coach couldn't even agree to join together to help prevent the Pao takeover. Erinn did the same correct thing as Susie did in Gabon.
goohst		#56	[-]
Posts: 367 (05/12/09 1:08 PM) More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: No, it's the Timbira Five. It's quite appropriate for the lowest person in the pecking order to swing to the other side. And Erinn was away at Exile when dumbasses Sierra, Debbie and Coach couldn't even agree to join together to help prevent the Pao takeover. Erinn did the same correct thing as Susie did in Gabon. I don't think it was a spot for spot comparison -- Erinn never had to vote off a Timbira when her vote could have caused a tie, and Susie wouldn't be the biggest goat in her group -- but Erinn definately needed to jump in the situation. Joe's injury hurt her -- she could have jumped after Brendan gone and had a solid ally, then jump back with Joe, Debbie and Sierra if needed.
sunflower101		#57	[-]
Posts: 4609 (05/12/09 1:48 PM) More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: urrout wrote: My problem is why is nobody trying to stop them? Even JT and Stephen claim they don't know why. And if they don't know why, I have a hard time rooting for them. And if they take each other to the F2, then for me everything they have done to get there will have been erased. We will have another Colby/ Tina and the one who took the other should lose. We haven't even seen much interaction between Stephen and the Timberas. It's always JT and even then nothing that would make them throw their game away. I want to see how he is convincing these people. Timbera is so split that they will not work with each other even for a million dollars? Because this is the only reason I have seen. Maybe it goes back to Stephen's quote about "falling half-assed backwards into an alliance" is the answer for me. They are still there simply because they were on the other team. I want to know what Taj and Erinn's plans are for their endgame. Does JT have a F2 with Erinn and Stephen with Taj? This would explain why they (mostly Erinn) have stuck with them. But if one ends up taking the other to the F2 instead, then they have thrown away their game away, imo. THIS Trix, my problem with a JT/Stephen F2 is that they'll get too much credit for reaching the F2 when, in fact, it was simply the massive stupidity of the Timbira Five that got the Paos to the end. Brendan and Tyson and Sierra and Debbie and Coach ought to be ASHAMED of themselves and their gameplay this season. They blew a 6-3 advantage after the merge. The Paos didn't approach anybody for alliances after the merge to save themselves. Heck, even Erinn had to approach JT using Joe as the conduit. And it was Coach who approached JT after the merge for the Warrior alliance. In fact, the Paos blew up the EA right away when they dumped Brendan. Then they blew up the WA when they dumped Tyson. Only the collective chaotic stupidity of Coach and Sierra and Debbie prevented the four remaining Timbiras from possibly wresting control of the game away from the Paos. Well Keep in mind they did have Taj's idol to play at the final 7/8.
rower	Episode 12 -= Story Arcs	#58	[-]
Posts: 2080 (05/12/09 2:10 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Wow there are some pretty passionate posters here. Not discounting any of the comments or feelings, I will put my additional 2 cents worth in. "My problem is why is nobody trying to stop them..." And whose problem is that ... certainly not JT/Stephen/or Taj's fault. (See Romber) "they [JT/Stephen] get too much credit" Hey they have lasted when they have been down in the numbers since the merge, what amount of credit do you think they deserve? "if both [JT/Stephen] get to the final two, it is proof that it was not their gameplay [That got them there]" What proof would you be speaking of? How many times have we heard JP say that this "is a social game"? Too many times to count I suppose. Is it JT/Stephen/Taj's fault that on day one the Tims began making alliances, deciding who "didn't deserve to be there" and essentially began burning their bridges before the first piling was in? No, it's not. And while I recognize that many of those (not all) hating the prospect of a JT/Stephen finale are/were fans of Tyson or Brenden or Debbi they cannot discount the fact that JT/Stephen and Taj saw the Tims weaknesses at the merge and exploited them. That is good gameplay. That they could do it without making mortal enemies or bitter jurors even makes it better. Did the Tims make it easy? Maybe. Was it stupid of the Tims. Definately. But a game? Absolutely and played in a way we haven't seen before. So I have a question, other than Erinn (who has a lot of peeps totally rooting for her and has not been ruled out as final two) who would you posters say EARNED a spot in the final two by their gameplay? And why? I'm just curious who the JT/Stephen finale "haters" would have preferred to see.
urrout		#59	[-]
Posts: 1869 (05/12/09 2:20 PM) Registered user More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	rower wrote: Wow there are some pretty passionate posters here. Not discounting any of the comments or feelings, I will put my additional 2 cents worth in. "My problem is why is nobody trying to stop them..." And whose problem is that ... certainly not JT/Stephen/or Taj's fault. (See Romber) "they [JT/Stephen] get too much credit" Hey they have lasted when they have been down in the numbers since the merge, what amount of credit do you think they deserve? "if both [JT/Stephen] get to the final two, it is proof that it was not their gameplay [That got them there]" What proof would you be speaking of? How many times have we heard JP say that this "is a social game"? Too many times to count I suppose. Is it JT/Stephen/Taj's fault that on day one the Tims began making alliances, deciding who "didn't deserve to be there" and essentially began burning their bridges before the first piling was in? No, it's not. And while I recognize that many of those (not all) hating the prospect of a JT/Stephen finale are/were fans of Tyson or Brenden or Debbi they cannot discount the fact that JT/Stephen and Taj saw the Tims weaknesses at the merge and exploited them. That is good gameplay. That they could do it without making mortal enemies or bitter jurors even makes it better. Did the Tims make it easy? Maybe. Was it stupid of the Tims. Definately. But a game? Absolutely and played in a way we haven't seen before. So I have a question, other than Erinn (who has a lot of peeps totally rooting for her and has not been ruled out as final two) who would you posters say EARNED a spot in the final two by their gameplay? And why? I'm just curious who the JT/Stephen finale "haters" would have preferred to see. I meant together. You do not take your biggest threat to the F2 with you. I want one of them to be there, just not both because to me that means the one who took the other ended on a bad move.
Oowatanite		#60	[-]
Posts: 7606 (05/12/09 2:24 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	rower wrote: "My problem is why is nobody trying to stop them..." And whose problem is that ... certainly not JT/Stephen/or Taj's fault. (See Romber) Apples and oranges. Romber came into the merge running the dominant tribe. If Coach and Tyson had reached the F2, then you have a Romber-style F2. If Stephen wins the game, then I say good for him. If JT wins the game, then I say good for him. But really, if there are no betrayals between the three Paos, then they basically floated to the end, mostly on Timbira's idiocy and not on any great gameplay.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

S18 - Episode 12 - Story Arcs