S-18 Edgic (editing and logic) - Tocantins - Survivor Speculation - Spoiler Related - Survivor Sucks - Message Board

0 Kudo

S-18 Edgic (editing and logic) - Tocantins

Started By	Comment
colleenlover		#3821	[-]
Posts: 9173 (04/25/09 8:51 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	well, we also don't know how well Jalepo is working these people -such as Erinn. Most likely because it's not relevant to the outcome. Perhaps Taj is telling Erinn no way in hell does she want to go to the end with Stephen and JT- anything to make Erinn stick with that grouping. jalepo are all pretty savvy so they most likely have some good checks and balances. Debbie strikes me as a fan of the show and probably gets a lot of this. She probably is the one who should bring Erinn, Sierra, Coach and herself together -"look guys, I don't know what you've all been told, but they had three who HAD to tell us anything to stay alive -yeah, you might have deals with them but you won't know if they're snowing you til it's too late. We've had bad blood and ALL made mistakes -we all come together and go final four where we all have equal shots." this of course is rational. And also why I think Erinn could go because she's a smart player and Sierra is irrational.
BlakeB717		#3822	[-]
Posts: 1502 (04/25/09 8:57 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	JT was shown as the decider in Sandy, Spencer, Sydney, Brendan, and Tyson's boots. Look at the confessionals he gets before Tribal Council and the music he gets when he votes in most of them. Regardless of how Stephen addresses the situation, JT gets the swing vote stance. Look at Parvati: she got the deciding music when Ozzy went, even though it may have been Cirie's idea. I highly suggest people look at the recaps, they way they tell them really suggests what the editors want you to think--they are telling you it twice! Stephen seems to be far more ignored than JT.
chapera rocks		#3823	[-]
Posts: 10811 (04/25/09 8:59 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	But Kenny also got the same treatment last season; he got credit for Crystal's move to take out Marcus. But Kenny didn't win. Though he did have a bigger role in the end game and he did outlast Crystal. And J.T. is already proving to have a bigger role than Stephen, and maybe he outlasts him to?
ncassaro		#3824	[-]
Posts: 1040 (04/25/09 9:03 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: JT was shown as the decider in Sandy, Spencer, Sydney, Brendan, and Tyson's boots. Look at the confessionals he gets before Tribal Council and the music he gets when he votes in most of them. Regardless of how Stephen addresses the situation, JT gets the swing vote stance. Look at Parvati: she got the deciding music when Ozzy went, even though it may have been Cirie's idea. I highly suggest people look at the recaps, they way they tell them really suggests what the editors want you to think--they are telling you it twice! Stephen seems to be far more ignored than JT. The pre-merge isn't that relevant, because we certainly had Cirie calling the shots on Malakal, both old and new. She got editors' credit for sending Yau-Man, Joel, and Tracy home.
DeadNotSleeping		#3825	[-]
Posts: 24 (04/25/09 9:19 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I guess I think that the statements "Stephen is in control" and "Stephen is costantly causing JT to decide in a way that mainly benifits Stephen, despite JT having literal control of the situation" are equal for the sake of this particular debate, as they have the exact same effect on both the game and the story. And I'm not certain at all that JT does have actual control. I mean, their votes count the same, Stephen has the idol and JT's the one with the huge target on his back, and these are all parts of the story. All we really know is that JT probably thinks he's in control and the that the editing, esthetics wise, is going along with it. I think it's a "That's what they WANT you to think" type of situation. With layers. Basically I'm giving the story editors a huge ammount of credit, as this season so far seems to have hit very well. Could do with less Coach meditating in seemigly slow motion, but nothing is perfect. I mean, they voted out Brendan last week. Why? We got no reason what so ever from JT explaining why he got rid of the guy who wanted to take him to the finals and then let him win. If he showed any mistrust in him or questioned this incredible new development then that would at least be something.
fat little fingers		#3826	[-]
Posts: 6101 (04/25/09 9:30 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Blake: Stephen saying Sierra is being stupid, her outburt at beangate, Tyson saying she's here for stupid people... I don't know, in the Viewer's mind there is no way Sierra can win. Ep1. Coach's first confessional: "This blond /break/ I have an unfortunate feeling she's gonna crumble." Ep9. Sierra's speech to Coach: "...But, if I gave up on myself right now...like I want to! I just wanna go home! I do! I don't want to be here with a bunch of people that I hurt... But, I don't want to go out like that! Would I be strong Sierra if I didn't have this conversation with you? No! Would you be Coach who pushed up against me to work harder at challenges and think that I had that in me? No! So, don't get mad at me for having this conversation with you." Ep1. Sierra making her decision to build the camp instead of look for the idol: "People may think this is a really stupid idea, but..." Coach's first expectations were that Sierra would crumble and give up. Everyone else seems to see Sierra as stupid. JT hates her for being a "lying bitch!" (Note that JT has been shown to enjoy his blindsides.) Sierra's got more story to come.
fat little fingers		#3827	[-]
Posts: 6102 (04/25/09 9:43 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Blake: JT was shown as the decider in Sandy, Spencer, Sydney, Brendan, and Tyson's boots. Look at the confessionals he gets before Tribal Council and the music he gets when he votes in most of them. You're focusing on the confessional without including the events that we are shown leading up them. Coach, too, has told us before TC about how he is orchestrating things. We weigh Coach's statements against what transpired before. JT needs the same considerations. In this episode, especially, we are shown Stephen convincing JT that it was time for Tyson to go and JT to become the new challenge threat. Ep8 Tribal Council: Stephen, "...I'm really glad JT is over there with a much larger target on his back than I have on mine." Stephen just made JT's target larger with Tyson's boot. JT is certainly on center stage, but I'm keeping my eye on the "goofy sidekick", who's thinking about his game and making moves just outside of the spotlight.
wallduck		#3828	[-]
Posts: 528 (04/25/09 9:55 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Coach CPN4 Debbie MORN3 Erinn CP2 JT MORN3 Sierra OTTN5 Stephen MOR2 Taj INV Tyson OTTN4 A very entertaining episode, but a very negative one for most of the characters. It's always entertaining to see jerks get their comeuppance, but particularly when the jerks are stupid to boot. You'd think by now it'd be impossible for any group to be as obliviously overconfident as Coach-Tyson-Debbie. And the editing piled on by focusing on their sanctimonious lecturing of Sierra. Delicious. The exposure of Tyson extended even to his parting comments about being outsmarted by Sierra. Tyson is so stupid that he doesn't even suspect who really outsmarted him! But being victimized by Ns doesn't necessarily make the victim P. Sierra was shown as an excruciatingly whiny and pathetic creature. And the negativity extended even to hero JT. Calling women nasty names is not okay. It wasn't okay when Tyson did it (despite inane comments here that it was because "everybody does it"), and it was not okay for JT. There was no real need for the editing to include it, given that Sierra was otherwise overwhelmingly established as the decoy boot. And so it serves to decrease JT's chances further. Meanwhile, Stephen continues to be portrayed as the subtle, adaptive, low-key mastermind running the show. Stephen is the classic male CP winner that edgic is designed to identify.
BlakeB717		#3829	[-]
Posts: 1503 (04/25/09 9:55 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I guess it comes down to whether Stephen is just a goofy sidekick or if there's more going on there.
fat little fingers		#3830	[-]
Posts: 6104 (04/25/09 10:19 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I guess it comes down to whether Stephen is just a goofy sidekick or if there's more going on there. Definitely. And I'm enjoying the hell outta this season and everybody's spirited and thoughtful arguments. So... Go, Scout! Go, Cook Islands Ozzy! Go, China Amanda! Go, Stephen!! Stephen doesn't have a chance...
Jedijake		#3831	[-]
Posts: 5641 (04/25/09 10:20 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SkepticA wrote he's playing his "Warriors of Tocantin" board game for real rather than any game in which JP is the host. Yep, and the thing that I was surprised Probst didn't bring up at TC was that Coach is willing to play this "Dungeons and Dragons" game only to the extent that it helps him. If someone plays the game against him, he would actually fault them on it. It's a lot more amusing and comical than even watching Lex mess up ASS the way he did.
getting real		#3832	[-]
Posts: 1668 (04/25/09 11:18 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	FLF said: Coach's first expectations were that Sierra would crumble and give up. Everyone else seems to see Sierra as stupid. JT hates her for being a "lying bitch!" (Note that JT has been shown to enjoy his blindsides.) Sierra's got more story to come. Yes. And that's why Sierra and Stephen stood out from the very beginning: They were both shown as being burdened with initial negative impressions but with significant manipulated potential to overcome them. Sierra, the real-life player, appears to be disliked almost with the same intensity as Sugar was like season. Benevolent editing seems to be the privilege of un-loved models who make it to the end-game... Trix, great theory about Erinn originally suggesting Coach as an alternative boot rather Tyson. If correct, it would answer my earlier question about why Erinn wasn't on-screen when the suggestion was made. It would also continue the season-long process of shrouding Stephen's strategic influence with subtlety. There is no doubt in my mind that, in the game itself, Stephen has been in control of every important decision made out there. However, the 'subtlety' with which his decision-making is edited (ie. obscured) is the same care taken to show Amanda making decisions in China instead of Todd. The only time you show a winner having total strategic dominance is if they have other doubt-generating problems (arrogance for Hatch, alliance problems for Heidink, Ozzy for Yul). Otherwise, they don't win and you edit them as worthy of reputations of 'the best player never to have won'. And that's the difference between Stephen and Cesternino.
Oowatanite		#3833	[-]
Posts: 7423 (04/25/09 11:51 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Why would Erinn target Coach rather than the challenge-winning Tyson or the miserable Sierra ? Erinn's been shown to be getting along better with Coach, including a hug at camp in this past episode. Remember "I like the new Coach".
ncassaro		#3834	[-]
Posts: 1041 (04/26/09 12:57 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	fat little fingers wrote: I guess it comes down to whether Stephen is just a goofy sidekick or if there's more going on there. Definitely. And I'm enjoying the hell outta this season and everybody's spirited and thoughtful arguments. So... Go, Scout! Go, Cook Islands Ozzy! Go, China Amanda! Go, Stephen!! Stephen doesn't have a chance... Ew, people rooted for Scout? I've read the Vanuatu edgic thread tho... IIRC, people thought Scout/Eliza would be F2 but that Eliza would win.
ncassaro		#3835	[-]
Posts: 1042 (04/26/09 12:59 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: Why would Erinn target Coach rather than the challenge-winning Tyson or the miserable Sierra ? Erinn's been shown to be getting along better with Coach, including a hug at camp in this past episode. Remember "I like the new Coach". And in insider clips, Erinn has shown herself to be a pretty astute gamer.... I don't think she'd mind facing Coach in the finals at all. I really really hope that if (when) Timbira doesn't get back together next ep, Erinn is smart enough to point out that they should have.
augustus713		#3836	[-]
Posts: 100 (04/26/09 2:57 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: augustus, I don't know why you're continuing to raise the inaccurate "Erinn hates Tyson" theme when that is clearly not the case, as others have pointed out repeatedly. And you're really turning into another RVStupid with your silly attacks on CR, etc. Except I haven't said anything about Erinn hating Tyson for a while now. I said Erinn's story is tied to Tyson, which is not the same thing. Ratings: Ben - OTTN4 - I wonder if they're going to show his morning stretch routing every episode...because I sincerely hope so. With all his talk about dying an honorable death because of a "bad" choice, I wonder if he'll do that now that his alliance got blindsided. Debbie - MOR3 - Face time for Debbie! Erinn - CP3 - Good individual episode for her as she gives insight to her unique position as a possible swing vote, but just not strong enough pre-merge to be a serious contender. Despite bringing up the Tyson vote, she gives no further insight into the decision and the decision is edited to be a Stephen-JT decision with Erinn and Taj as tag-alongs. JT - MORN3 - A pretty weak episode for JT in my opinion. He's shown breaking his word to Coach that included a handshake and calls Sierra a bitch. For a character that's been overtly positive the entire time, this definitely is a chink in his edit for me. An episode like this would have been good for him if he had a Rob C or Rob M-like edit, but he doesn't. Sierra - OTTM5 - Her confessionals were CP, but her social game was definitely OTT. Lots of negative SPV for her all around, but we were supposed to feel sympathy for her. Compare the tone of her edit to say...Randy's edit in Gabon...completely different N SPV. Just judging by the different ratings for her on here confirms the M tone for me. Stephen - MOR3 - Real close to CP, but just didn't give enough insight into the Tyson decision to warrant it. Did nothing to hurt his winner status. Taj - INV - Where has she gone post-merge? Could be UTR, but she barely spoke in a game-changing episode. Tyson - OTTN4 - For a person who seems to be pretty savvy, I was really surprised by how confident he was in his position despite being the biggest IC threat. Winner: Stephen
craig		#3837	[-]
Posts: 15523 (04/26/09 3:20 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	how does Erinn think she'll get to F3 with the Jambos? Play to be either Stephen or JT's F2 goat. "The Timbits hate me, and if I stick with you they'll think I'm a traitor." They aren't that attached to Taj, who only made merge because of her Timbit connections that proved totally redundant. Erinn's only shot at a win is against Sierra, but that would require Coach and Sierra, or Taj and Sierra, to be bold and rational players, and that ain't happening. Nothing in the edit point to that outcome. JT vs Stephen - it's true JT has been more in the power position, but that's because of his stronger connections with Syd, Joe, Coach, and the Warrior Allaince. But Stephen is better positioned to use Taj or Sierra against JT, so them staying strengthens his position. Bottom line - I think one of Stephen or JT will win after booting the other (probably Stephen), and one of Erinn or Sierra will be their goat.
Warrior		#3838	[-]
Posts: 2878 (04/26/09 9:25 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Great Post flf. Remember this is week 8...flf...PLEASE
DeadNotSlipping		#3839	[-]
Posts: 1 (04/26/09 9:31 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	"He doesn't have immunity" I think it's somewhat unreasonable to imagine Erinn meant anyone other then Tyson with her "He doesn't have immunity" comment. How is that applicable to Coach? Yeah, he doesn't have immunity, but he never did. There is no point in pointing out the fact that Coach doesn't have immunity, because duh. The only one this comment applies to is the one who won the last two (and first two) individual immunities, and we got not even a hint from the editing that that wasn't the case. It's a golden cut thing, or whatever that's called. If it's simple and makes sense it's more likely true, and Erinn's sentence makes a lot more sense if "He" is referring to an immunity monster, and not the doofus who hasn't been particularly close to winning a challenge so far. Of course that second guy doesn't have immunity, so yeah technically it's possible, but he never did. "How can X make F3?" If Taj does go next week (and everyone, at this point, has some reason to want Taj gone), this becomes a total freelancer's market, and every single person out there can make F2 game-reality wise. Editing wise I think it has to be some combination of Erinn\Sierra\Stephen. I'm even warming up to a Erinn\Sierra F2, too, because maybe Stephen is, in fact, Cirie. Like, literally. In a disguise. But then again maybe Coach goes, or Debee, in which case it would be very hard for Erinn to make F2 as anything other then a straight up goat. (Ah, and changed nicks again. For the last time, hopefully. Not being able to edit sucks)
Phoenix1269		#3840	[-]
Posts: 629 (04/26/09 10:50 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	DeadNotSleeping wrote: (come to think of it, how does Erinn think she'll get to F3 with the Jambos?) It's very risky (not to mention has very little to do with Edgic, barring the "I have to make big moves!" line), but if Erinn makes a move to take out Taj next week she'll literally be my favorite survivor of all times. She'll basically make herself essential to Stephen and JT, and able to force a tie next TC with Coach\Debee\Sierra, which should get Sierra to vote along. Plus she thinks Taj has the only idol left in the game. This can only happen if JT wins immunity, of course, but he probably will. And no, I have not yet thought of the dozen ways in which this is stupid. I'm sure they're out there but I think It'll still be kind of great. actually... i think that there may actually be something here... Erinn E2, talks about trust - how do you trust someone you've only known for 6 days <merge Day 20ish, tyson gets voted out on day 26ish> So, on approximately the 6th day of knowing Erinn, Stephen, JT & Taj team up with her to vote out Tyson. Stephen says to Taj: Can we trust her? (or words to that effect) In the same episode we get Erinn talking about how she doesn't want people to do the thinking for her, and that the way you win is by making your own decisions and big moves etc. Does Erinn take out Stephen?? Then, we also get this odd little scene: Stephen, "If we don't take out Tyson now, he could go on a run. It happens. It happens every season. Someone goes on a run. ... Let's make it you." JT thinks about it and laughs, "It'd be a lot safer, wouldn't it?!" An odd choice of words don't you think... SAFER for whom?? Not safer for Stephen. And then - immediately - we get this... JT, "Are they looking at you?" Stephen, "No. ...Sierra is." We've also been reminded of the "in control" scene between JT and Stephen. I'd like to remind you that JT ONLY ASKS the question...."Does this mean we are in control?" Stephen answers... Absolutely, we are in control. -- Anyway... my thinking is this, If Erinn is serious about big moves then she knows needs to act BIG and soon (she's already started). She's been presented as no dummy, just without alliances, and we've heard her say herself that she doesn't want to be led around.... I'm wondering if the set up from this past episode is suggesting that perhaps Erinn takes out Stephen. Erinn is going to have to realize at some point that she is the 4th wheel with the J3s and her alliance with the remaining Tims is shaky at best. Erinn may also just realize that HER best shot would be breaking up the STRONGEST REMAINING PAIR. Sierra and Erinn are both loose cannons right now with no real ties... so even though they don't like each other, I can see Erinn working with her old tribe mates to make the numbers better for ERINN. Sierra would likely go along with whatever just to stay a few more days, maybe she sells him out as having the HII (Brendan knew, so therefore so does Sierra). Or maybe it's Coach who starts the ball becuase he wants to get even??? Whichever, Erinn has seen for herself that Stephen is smart. Coach commented on Stephen being "obviously intelligent" at the merge.... If someone could get it together enough to realize that breaking up JT/Stephen would be a GREAT IDEA, and that Stephen is playing the game all out.... it would have to be now. Assuming that JT does go on an immunity run.... his winning immunity makes only JT safe. There is only one HII left, and if Stephen feels completely confident and in control, he may not realize that he needs to use it. I don't think that the Tims would target Taj, becuase she has been presented (and viewed) as the 3rd in an alliance of 2 and as not making many moves. I think they would try to break-up JT & Stephen first. ETA: missing scene info re Sierra looking at Stephen. Last Edited By: Phoenix1269 04/26/09 11:01 AM. Edited 1 times.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

S-18 Edgic (editing and logic) - Tocantins

Quick Reply