RobVanDickhead spewed:
A WHOLE BUNCH OF BULLSHIT![]()
There you go Abby and Skoff. Another example of a drive-by troll with nothing to contribute.
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Oowatanite |
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RobVanDickhead spewed: There you go Abby and Skoff. Another example of a drive-by troll with nothing to contribute. |
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colleenlover |
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I was talking to my mom earlier on the phone and she was asking about how life is, what's new, exciting, the usual -but she also asked me how I was doing
in edgic this season and if her money was well spent. So, you know I told her that I had picked Marcus, and there was just this... I don't know, a hush, a
silence on the other end. I started to sweat a bit. And then I told her, "It's okay, it's okay, technically the merge hasn't happened
yet." She just blew up and started shouting at me, "You FUCKING failure! You FAILED!" I was stunned, shocked even. All I could hear was
screaming and crying and smashing in the background.
I'm sorry, edgic, but we're going to have to admit we failed. I am willing to accept the consequences, and just I don't know, just try to go on I guess. |
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Phoenix1269 |
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quick ratings... hectic this weekend and didn't have a chance to write up everything....
The Blue Tribe Bob CPP3 - Bob showed us how AWARE he is of his position. Immediately after the vote off of Marcus and again on exile. Stated that he "didn't know" if Sugar found the idol. He was not shown to DOUBT that she had the idol... only that he didn't know. Showed us some strategy by making a fake idol, indicating it is like "robbing a bank" ... it's the idea of the gun (or idol) that's important. A weak CP... wouldn't argue a MOR. Charlie MOR4 Corinne OTTN3 Crystal MORN2 Ken CP4 Matty MORP3 Randy OTTN4 Sugar CP3 Susie UTRP1 Winners - do i HAVE to pick.... seriously.... i don't know. Ken/Matty.... Ken seems like a better cjoice but something doesn't feel right. Same goes for Matty I keep thinking about what Charlie said about Sugar... she's playing DIFFERENTLY than everyone else. So different that the editors don't know how to edit it her if she wins??? When I vote, i'll flip a coin and then tell ya. :) jury's still out for me...
Last Edited By: Phoenix1269
11/16/08 3:00 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Phoenix1269 |
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Why Corinne is OTTN3:
Corinne doesn't care about anyone except for Herself, Charlie and Marcus (her words). And this reinforced throughout the episode. She doesn't care who goes home. She's pissed it was Marcus - he didn't DESERVE to go, and he EARNED his right. (overly entitled statements that were promptly & accurately refuted). Refutes her own nice reward moment. Editors could have stopped at... "there was this cute little girl who couldn't keep , so i paid some attention..." BUT THEY DID NOT! This is why this scene LOSES its POSITIVITY... because the editors chose to show what she felt she needed to add.... in a sarcastic voice tone, no less..."which was cuuuute, buuuut i'm the last person anyone would think would chum up to a 2 year old." She continues to show that she only cares about herself with her talk to Sugar.... She dismisses Sugar's feelings about Randy with a condescending "i know. i know" And proceeds to talk about how the numbers work. Corinne completely ignores Sugar's statement about how Randy is gonna cause big problems. Instead we hear: "Not only do i have to act like i'm interested in what Sugar is saying... i have to act like i CARE about her." Cuts back to Charlie Corinne & Sugar... Charlie says - Kota 4-some to the end and Corinne says - I just want to stay in the game! No mention of how it's good for Sugar. And as though we haven't gotten the message... Corinne goes on to tell us.... "Sugar is so weak and naive and gullible. I've been nasty to her for 25 days. i was nice to her for 1 day, and she's sold. It doesn't make sense but she buys it. She's a moron." (eye roll). We of course know that Sugar is not a moron... because we have seen and heard enough evidence to the contrary for WEEKS now and we also have Sugar herself telling us that she doesn't trust Corinne or Randy and has no alligence to them! Lastly, we get some more negative SPV from Susie and Matty, et al: Crystal - Corinne & Charlie. gotta be broken up. M - Corinne could go first S - Corinne is just hurting herself with her own personality. M - she's horrendous - she is awful, all the time S- agree (Susie & Matty hi5!) <this made me laugh> Then we get the TC where Sugar - once again reminds us that Corinne is not nice - When Sugar states that Sugar is not mean and doesn't talk bad about other people... with a nice full on cut to Corinne. In the end... Corinne has been painted as self centered and a villian... she's been "mean" to the Survivor Sweetheart for 25 days and calls her a moron. She is aligned with another villian and she resorts to scrambling and "being nice" to get her way. There is not enough so-called nice or positive moments to cancel out the heapings of negativity the editors CHOSE to show us. There were no internal struggles or complex feelings so - not CP. She was not bland enough or narrating, and she was too extreme in her comments to be sufficiently MOR. Definitely not UTR. Therefore only OTT fits... especially since she is someone that many people "love to hate" and she has been edited villian-like and bitchy. |
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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First, there seems to be a strange notion making the rounds that the edit of Kota has changed. This isn't really true. While Fang had its failures
emphasized negatively, we never got the reverse. Kota was presented as an efficient machine, but there was rarely any presence of tone, and when there was, it
was most often associated with arrogance.
The first couple of episodes set up the Onion alliance, but that was all strategically driven with no tone (with one exception I'll discuss below). There was Ace as a potential foil down the road, but it wasn't developed, just left hanging. But we do get a confessional in Episode 2 (I think) that the tribe is so awesome that they will never lose. That's hubris of the first magnitude, and sure enough, Kota loses in the next episode twice. Do they use this occasion to set up the Onions as an alliance to be rooted for? No. They allow Ace to be the bully and dump Paloma. This was probably good strategy, but strategy doesn't drive tone. If anything, the most telling sign from that episode is Marcus wiping away a fake tear. His arrogance was showing even then. (Too bad that negativity itself isn't enough to disqualify someone from being a winner, but at least that scene meant to me Marcus would never be someone that we'd root to win.) The Onion Alliance as an entity was at best an impersonal force and at worst, a negative one. Perhaps nothing made that more clear than the way we were shown Bob being strung along. Why show us that when it never came into play? Paloma's boot was nearly unanimous, and Dan's boot resulted from the original Kotas choosing from amongst the outsiders. In neither case was it necessary to show Bob as strung along by the Onions. I indicated at the time that stringing along Bob was presented as a negative act, mainly because Bob was otherwise presented as the ultimate positive force. I'm even more sure of that now. The Onions pushing negative Randy ahead of positive Bob reinforces the notion. Randy's negative comments while he was part of Fang were still negative, but at least they seemingly had some justification. Once he went to Kota and continued (and continues) to badmouth Fang at every opportunity, the justification was lost and only blatant negativity remains. So, no, we were never meant to side with the Onions in the editing. The editing hasn't changed with them, just become less subtle. We can't believe a word Corinne says outside of confessionals precisely because we saw her two-faced nature exposed with respect to Susie. So those deriving positivity out of reported scenes with Bob (or whoever) are doing so without basis. Even the reward segment is subject to this, especially when we hear Corinne admit that isn't who she is. (I still thnk the editors love to show cultural reward moments regardless of who is involved. Yes, it would have fit better with Sugar, but the editors can't create something that doesn't exist.) The change in the edit only applies to Fang, not Kota, and the change is explained by them finally working together instead of as individuals. That transformation isn't complete yet, and maybe the Kotas can exploit a crack one last time. We'll see, but let's not have revisionism that says the Kota were ever the good tribe because they never were. |
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astroline |
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I agree with CL, and RobVanStratus on this one. Edgic 100% failed. We had Marcus at 90%+ of the vote for pretty much every single week and most of us
didn't even consider ANY other options. Some of us, like myself & Panurge, have been looking at Corinne since the beginning and didn't completely
write her off even with all the Marcus hype, even if he was my #1 for a few episodes too.
Just because Kenny & Matty do not have INV's like Corinne do not automatically make them the winners. Just because it's not a losing edit doesn't automatically mean it's a winning edit either! I forget who said it, recently, but Kenny's "storyline" is revolved around him being an "underdog"?! Underdogs don't have control of the game and they certainly don't act like it and throw it in our faces, and they certainly don't row around in a circle. Could they just be edited Kenny this way because they think we want to see more of him? Same with Matty. He reminds me so much of Ozzy it's not even funny. Seriously, if I was blind, I would probably think Ozzy was back for a 3rd season. Corinne's story, even though it's pretty negative and includes an INV, still has an edge over Kenny & Matty's. We don't see Corinne being a bitch just to be a bitch (like Randy is), but she's still playing the game 100% and that's the type of gameplay she's been saying she'd be doing since the very first episode ("I'm a bitch, I'm gonna play the game and I'm gonna own it.") Surely resonates more than Kenny tripping over first boot, negative nancy Michelle and Matty enjoying the sights & sounds of Gabon (and I guess the challenges too). Oowatanite, "a drive-by troll with nothing to contribute"... that doesn't describe RobVanStratus. Maybe some self-reflection could help? |
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cindidindi76 |
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Casey333 wrote: But at least he (she? I really have no idea) doesn't use a ghostnic to do it. And here I thought cl was being facetious about being a failure... |
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colleenlover |
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bravo, lurker!
so succinct. I always seem to lose my train of thought -but you put it altogether beautifully. |
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Casey333 |
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Corinne's story, even though it's pretty negative and includes an INV 2 INVs |
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astroline |
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Casey333 wrote:Only 1 by my chart. The other one is very, very debatable. |
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getting real |
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Not to mention those people who ridicule those who fall in with new ideas. "Revisionist", they scream. "You failed. You thought the Earth was flat. You can't change your mind just like that!" |
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9RedWing19 |
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astroline wrote:Well, someone will win this season and we've only got 8 choices left (and I think the consensus here is that Bob and Susie have zero chance, so thet gets you to 6: Ken, Mattiy Crystal, Sugar, Randy, Corinne). If you believe in the "no INV" principle, then we're down to 4 (and if we are doing Edgic according to the principles laid out at the beginning of the season, I'm not sure how you ignore one mid-season). From there, I think the majority of posters consider that Ken and Matty fit the guidelines much better than Randy or Corinne. As for Ken rowing in a circle, what struck many people here is that they showed him solving the problem in the end and getting the boat free(the scene would have a totally different meaning had that not been shown). |
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Casey333 |
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astroline wrote: Well of course the Corrine fans would debate it. :) Not that INV/UTR1 is much better than INV/INV. |
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astroline |
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Casey333 wrote:I'm not a Corinne fan. I was pre-season, yeah, but I haven't been since then. I appreciate her as a character, but I am no fan of hers. |
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Oowatanite |
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astroline wrote:
Last Edited By: Oowatanite
11/16/08 4:24 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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getting real |
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Redwing wrote:
Redwing, how does Randy get anywhere remotely close to getting past the third guideline? |
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wallduck |
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By edgic, there's a reason Corinne won't win that's even more fundamental than visibility. Corinne has been presented
negatively from ep 1. Not OTT negatively, but relentlessly negatively, mostly in small doses. How many female characters like her have we seen? A lot.
Corinne's in a long line of the likes of Courtney and Candice and the other Courtney (so many C names). Maybe like the S15 Courtney she'll go to the
end, which would also put Corinne in the company of Katie and Danielle. They too were identifiable as nonwinners by the cumulative effect on the viewer of
many short doses of gratuitous N. It's okay for the winner to have a healthy dose of N to his/her edit. But a current (or undercurrent) of the annoying,
petty, bitchy stuff is poisonous to a player's edgic viability.
Too bad. I love characters like Corinne, and I wish she could win, or at least last. My primary complaint about S17 is the
failure to fully develop Corinne to her full potential. I guess there was just too much competition for the finite N available to go round.
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astroline |
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Oowatanite wrote:Well, if CL was joking, I wasn't. Edgic DID fail because we were way too distracted by Marcus for way too long. And by the time he was gone, the merge hit and it was too late. Edgic, as a whole, failed this time. It could still hold up some credibility if certain people win, but too many people were way too engulfed by Marcus to even notice anyone else. And even if I'm not a "sane Edgicer" (by your standards only), at least I'm actually a real Edgicer. You're just a fucking bitch. If Corinne is "eliminated by Edgic" (or "eliminated by Edgic".. OR "eliminated by Edgic"), then what about when everyone was saying the same things about Kenny & Matty before Marcus got voted out? If they can be un-eliminated by so many people, people who just said "Marcus wins. Nobody else is even in it." for week after week, why can't I at least back up a pick I've been holding on to since the first episode? |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Actually, I don't think Matty at least was ever eliminated by Edgic. |
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colleenlover |
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I'm just looking at what the endgame could be- I feel too much has been made about Sugar being dumb, and not knowing how to play the game but learning, and
Kenny noting it. And now the angle of Sugar not trusting Kenny (reinforced at tribal council). If Corrine was an endgamer what good does it do to have her
think Sugar is dumb (or at least not have her pulse on it that she might not be)? It would be like going two steps backwards in what I feel the story is
trying to do. And I might be completely wrong.
But I feel like more has been set up about the dragging Sugar to the end by Ace/Bob/Corrine, and Matty's worry that Sugar would use the idol on him in the Ace/Sugar/Matty alliance, along with Matty/Sugar's do or die alliance scene with framed sun/setting sun and tense action music. So, I feel in order for Corrine to be an endgamer (not to mention, winner) she would have to be tied into the story about something not sitting right with her about Sugar. More or less, attempting to solve the puzzle. I just get the felling/sense that Corrine is being used in the story as a pawn for the middle/late game in order to instill more drama before she leaves. With Sugar/Kenny, I think there are a few possibilities. Kenny does vote her out right by the end, but on the jury points out how sharp she was, and she probably votes for him. Sugar idols Kenny out of the game or is a deciding vote on getting him out (final five or four)- or it comes down to a trust factor in a crucial situation and both work it out in dramatic fashion and are both in final three. But it's an endgame crucial moment no matter what avenue it goes down in my mind. |
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