S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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Francois40		#2841	[-]
Posts: 2604 (11/15/08 9:58 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The Editors ruined a nice positive segment for her by editing in "I'd be the LAST person that would chum up to a 2 year old." It's about editors intent and I don't hate her...the editors do LOL That statement was clearly irony/redemption...no different than Rudy saying "I never thought I'd be friends with a fag" or whatever. Though there's nothing wrong with not liking kids, of course! Has nobody mentioned the unexplained defensiveness and rather non sequitur voting comment from Kenny, saying "I'm not homophobic, really", when the subject of homophobia had not been brought up whatsoever, nor had we seen anything indicating that Kenny was like that. I am guessing that there was probably something brought up at TC on it and filmed, then cut at the last minute. But they could still have not shown Kenny's comment at all, or shown it from a different angle with no sound, etc. Is this some strange kind of "character padding" for the winner?
Oowatanite		#2842	[-]
Posts: 6336 (11/15/08 10:07 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	wallduck wrote: I have more of a problem with the "Corinne and/or Randy and/or Sugar are still alive edgically" bullshit that's been infecting this thread since Marcus got turfed. Those three can still be speculated to win by their fans but this spec/fandom DOES NOT belong in Edgic. Period. Understood. But the reality is that the thread always gets invaded at this time of season by posters who don't really know or care about edgic. Because it's the most popular spec thread, it naturally draws the fans, whose approach is to simply sprinkle the word "edit" into every other sentence. There's not much to do about it, except grin and bear it. Actually I wasn't referring to the newbies, I was referring to vets like Craig and Astro, who should know better. Abby and Skoff, you have both begun posting this season and have received lots of good feedback from the vets on this thread about your posts. Don't take things here too personally, especially if you are not directly addressed/criticized. I believe what wallduck is referring to, and what I believe to be true as well, is the fly-by posts by veteran sucksters (not edgicers) who pop in here to spew crap and whose posts obviously are not based on any knowledge of the edgic guidelines. You can tell who these posters are by the post count under their avatar - it's usually above 1000 posts. That being said, all but Ken and Matty should be eliminated edgically, with Ken being the heavy favourite. Corinne ain't winning with TWO INVs. Period. End of story. Sorry Astro and Craig. Randy is a very loud negative distraction and he ain't winning either. Sorry Craig. Sugar is being edited as the sweetheart of the season who lucked into the HII - if she had won her edit would be entirely different. Susie was nothing until she backstabbed Marcus. Bob has been the UTR/INV positive old guy who was shown just beginning to really play the game. Susie and Bob aren't winning. Crystal has been a useless lazy troublemaking negative bitch since about episode four. Crystal ain't winning. Matty is still alive edgically but, as someone posted earlier, he's looking like CI Ozzy - close but no cigar. I think that Kenny is the winner. And I posted that right after Marcus got booted. Speaking of Marcus, hasn't Edgic failed by backing him for the win ? Nope, because Marcus was booted before the merge. If Marcus had been booted at F5, for example, then Edgic would have failed this season. It looks like Kenny will be the Official Edgic Pick at merge-time, so if Kenny does not win then Edgic will have failed this season. If any of the the other six players (other than Matty) win this season then several edgic guidelines will probably have to be adjusted. Once again, feel free to speculate that Corinne or Randy will come back and win against all odds (take a look at me now), or that Sugar really has the same IQ as Amazon Heidi and will swoop in for the win, but take this speculation out of Edgic since it is not based on the edgic guidelines. You can't pick and choose which guidelines to ignore to fit your fave's situation. Last Edited By: Oowatanite 11/15/08 10:14 PM. Edited 2 times.
9RedWing19		#2843	[-]
Posts: 2293 (11/15/08 10:37 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	cindidindi76 wrote: I'm glad other people are in the same camp as I am regarding Fang. Yes, they lost all those challenges, so ti had to be shown, but they didn't have to be shown as this horrible, stupid, bumbling, asinine, completely worthless tribe. Ulong lost just as much, but instead they (mostly) got the plucky underdog tribe that never gives up edit. Steph, and to a lesser degree Bobby-Jon got the plucky under-dog edit. As for the rest, here are some examples: 1) the whole tribe got ripped for a pathetic performance in the Ep 1 IC 2) several of them (eg Kim) got ripped for doing nothing to help in the Ep 2 IC 3) James losing the decisive matches to a gay man in the Ep 4 IC 4) Ibe was singled out as useless in the Ep 5 RC/IC combo. 5) James (especially) and Ibe were singled out for dogging it in the Ep 6 IC. So while Ulong didn't get it as bad as Fang, they did not get off lightly. And with original Fang now seemingly in control, this will be a far far different end game than Palau. The editing of pre-merge Fang may make more sense when the season is over, but then again it may not (I've re-watched the first 2 episodes and I cannot figure out why we we were shown so much of the onion alliance, now that 3 of the 4 original members are gone - there must have been dozens of similar alliances that ended up on the cutting room floor). It's probably a topic best left for the off-season, when we know how it all played out.
craig		#2844	[-]
Posts: 14316 (11/15/08 11:05 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Has nobody mentioned the unexplained defensiveness and rather non sequitur voting comment from Kenny, saying "I'm not homophobic, really", Apparently, Randy\Dan\Susie told Charlie that Kenny called him a fag back at pre-switch Kota (Charlie's RNO interview). It never came up post-merge because they had only a few hours together before TC. Really Oo, your case for ruling out Corinne rests on the INV rule, which you take more absolutely than some edgickers. I always said the difference between INV vs UTR1 barely registers on the average viewer. If Survivors editors have a rulebook saying "Thou must give 6 or 8 sentences to the winner every episode no matter what" (which I doubt), that's more an editing eccentricity than part of editing logic. Plus Corinne's 1st INV was a close call (and I didn't even vote that week) which I dispute. All the contenders have weaknesses. Kenny winning makes nonsense of 6 episodes of Fang editing. Let's just see how it plays out. Last Edited By: craig 11/15/08 11:11 PM. Edited 1 times.
Casey333		#2845	[-]
Posts: 142 (11/15/08 11:15 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yeah, but unlike some of the other edgic rules (i.e. complex tribe and known pairs), the INV rule has held up remarkably well. It even survived the Danni win. It also correctly eliminated Amanda early on last season, even though a few people stubbornly kept her in contention. Last Edited By: Casey333 11/15/08 11:17 PM. Edited 1 times.
NickF227		#2846	[-]
Posts: 5132 (11/15/08 11:36 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: Has nobody mentioned the unexplained defensiveness and rather non sequitur voting comment from Kenny, saying "I'm not homophobic, really", All the contenders have weaknesses. Kenny winning makes nonsense of 6 episodes of Fang editing. Let's just see how it plays out. Is it just me, or do you keep forgetting that the Complex Tribe rule has been kind of...obliterated?
colleenlover		#2847	[-]
Posts: 8775 (11/15/08 11:39 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	wow, it's getting combative in here. skoffing, about reworking the edgic formula- I think everyone has their own formula or hunches, some completely mathematical. none of that really works for me -the only thing I rely on are storylines, so I just keep rewatching and keeping a running tally on what is left dangling to be revisited. I believe it's OnlyTheHunter that always keeps this in perspective that editing starts with the end result and works backwards- and I think that's a wonderful way of looking at it. And sometimes that's not always about the winner -Stephanie for example was their gold (in CBS's mind at least) and I feel was preoccupied with her- but working backwards works the best for me -usually in at least determining, narrowing down the final four. I keep everyone alive until that CHARACTER'S (not person's) torch is snuffed. But I keep seeing what are they doing with the characters left in the game and where they've been and what would fit into the projected future -mainly the endgame. (Example: Can anyone see a final four of Randy and Bob fighting out and negotiating as a last two in an immunity challenge, as opposed to say Kenny and Sugar? I give more weight to the latter two because things have been more projected for this dynamic to return) All I'm looking at are things that can come up in the future -will I always be right, and sometimes there will be groupings that have me scratching my head? Sure- it's not a science, it's an art form. I'm just trying to narrow in on what I think is stronger in being built up. Re: Corrine. To me, she's negative. Has nothing to do with me not liking her. I personally feel like she's the go to person to cut to in order to instill drama- and only with confessionals. I rewatched every episode after Marcus left, looking intently at every possible tread (huh, me a loser? well, I'll have you know ...okay, no, you're right) All she has is duping Bob because he's easy to do this, Charlie calls her smart in regards to this, and stating she hates most of these people. Kota IS/WAS the Onion alliance. What was the alternative to show? Paloma and Kelly? Didn't amount to anything. Ace making alliances? I totally get the reward and the kid moment -and I loved it, and I like Corrine. But I also feel like sometimes reward moments are almost like pausing the game and showing that everyone is human and compassionate (Lex was the villain in Africa but that all goes out the window when visiting the AIDS hospital), and you know these are real people who got to be on a hard, stressful game and is broadcast on television- no need to complete destroy them to fit them into a box. But then Corrine is used for her roll as the bad guy post reward- I can not possible think that Corrine is not being used as the one with egg on her face when she says things like, "Marcus won't leave," "She's a forty-seven year old woman, what could she possibly have over me?!", "Sugar's such a moron."
chapera rocks		#2848	[-]
Posts: 9838 (11/15/08 11:52 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: Has nobody mentioned the unexplained defensiveness and rather non sequitur voting comment from Kenny, saying "I'm not homophobic, really", Apparently, Randy\Dan\Susie told Charlie that Kenny called him a fag back at pre-switch Kota (Charlie's RNO interview). It never came up post-merge because they had only a few hours together before TC. Really Oo, your case for ruling out Corinne rests on the INV rule, which you take more absolutely than some edgickers. I always said the difference between INV vs UTR1 barely registers on the average viewer. If Survivors editors have a rulebook saying "Thou must give 6 or 8 sentences to the winner every episode no matter what" (which I doubt), that's more an editing eccentricity than part of editing logic. Plus Corinne's 1st INV was a close call (and I didn't even vote that week) which I dispute. All the contenders have weaknesses. Kenny winning makes nonsense of 6 episodes of Fang editing. Let's just see how it plays out. They've started the Fang turnaround, so "negative Fang" is dead. In the recap, instead of Fang suckage, it highlighted that Kota were not always good winners, even though it was just Randy. Corinne and Randy are the evil now, Fang are the underdogs we're supposed to root for.
mfrimley		#2849	[-]
Posts: 926 (11/15/08 11:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Where do people get off being such dogmatic douchebags and saying people should leave if they don't toe the party line? Is this an actual discussion thread, or are people just going to have an attitude where it's majority rules, where their analysis that ~~Marcus~~ Kenny wins is infallible and everybody else should just go with the flow? People talk about this "edgic" business like it's a religion, when people will filter the same data according to their own biases like they do anywhere else. Nobody can be completely objective.
Francois40		#2850	[-]
Posts: 2605 (11/16/08 12:30 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Has nobody mentioned the unexplained defensiveness and rather non sequitur voting comment from Kenny, saying "I'm not homophobic, really", Apparently, Randy\Dan\Susie told Charlie that Kenny called him a fag back at pre-switch Kota (Charlie's RNO interview). It never came up post-merge because they had only a few hours together before TC. Yes, I saw that elsewhere, but my (Edgic) question was, why did they SHOW his comment to us? Will there be a jury question about it from Charlie? Otherwise why do we--who never saw it happen nor heard it referenced, need to see Kenny's reaction to it.
mfrimley		#2851	[-]
Posts: 927 (11/16/08 12:32 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	They didn't show it. They only showed him saying "Sorry, Charlie..."
Francois40		#2852	[-]
Posts: 2606 (11/16/08 12:34 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oh, I'm going by the video...D'OH!
ncassaro		#2853	[-]
Posts: 273 (11/16/08 1:12 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: Speaking of Marcus, hasn't Edgic failed by backing him for the win ? Nope, because Marcus was booted before the merge. If Marcus had been booted at F5, for example, then Edgic would have failed this season. It looks like Kenny will be the Official Edgic Pick at merge-time, so if Kenny does not win then Edgic will have failed this season. If any of the the other six players (other than Matty) win this season then several edgic guidelines will probably have to be adjusted. No offense, but I call bullshit. How many people said Marcus wins with absolute certainty? Probably about 75% (myself included). We can't re-write the rules and say, "Oh, well it wasn't merge yet!" F10 is traditional merge time and we still had him winning then. We sucked this season and it's re-writing history if we deny that now. That said, the way you say either Kenny or Matty wins with such certainty frightens me. Did you NOT learn your lesson from what just happened with Marcus? Edgic failed this season. Period. If we start to say, "edgic didn't fail this season," edgic will not improve and it'll fail again next season. If we admit we (myself included) fucked up, we can make it better. I just don't see progress from claiming it didn't fail.
boardies20		#2854	[-]
Posts: 42 (11/16/08 1:39 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Correct me if I'm wrong, but traditionally official winner pick comes at the merge episode, regardless of how many players there are. So I don't think edgic failed this season per se, but there might need to be some fine tuning etc with regards to future seasons. And based on current Edgic guidelines, Corinne DOES needs to be eliminated with at least one INV (and another debatable INV). Again, if she DOES win (highly unlikely), then the INV rule might need to be reviewed. Just my 2c...
Casey333		#2855	[-]
Posts: 144 (11/16/08 1:44 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If she does win, the INV rule needs to be scrapped completely. But every season there's at least one contestant with an INV who some people refuse to eliminate, and every single time that person ends up losing in the end. Just like clockwork. I know it sucks when your favorite gets slapped with the INV. I was a Rafe fan, and I was bummed when he got his INV episode. But that's the way the cookie crumbles. Last Edited By: Casey333 11/16/08 1:50 AM. Edited 3 times.
ncassaro		#2856	[-]
Posts: 274 (11/16/08 1:49 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	boardies20 wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but traditionally official winner pick comes at the merge episode, regardless of how many players there are. This is ridiculous. The survivors thought that the merge was coming at F10, as did we. Even if we hadn't, so what? We were so confident in Marcus and Marcus only 8 episodes in a row. I feel like we have a responsibility to say "oops" and not "well, we were right kinda" otherwise edgic will not improve and will make the same mistake in the future. Of course, we will have to wait until the end of this season to reform the process, but I just don't see how invoking technicalities is productive..... seems to me like ppl are just trying to cover their asses. And it's already happening IMO... people are saying only Ken or Matty can win. Did we not learn our lesson from overconfidence? It's not being a pussy to allow some time to re-group IMO. Call me a newb, but I read up on all prior edgic seasons before ever posting here. I have probably read them more recently than anyone else.
Casey333		#2857	[-]
Posts: 145 (11/16/08 1:53 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It doesn't matter if Ken wins, or Matty wins, nobody outside of this thread is going to give edgic any credit anyway. So as far as the "outside world" is concerned, yes edgic is a failure this season for having picked Marcus (even though it wasn't the "official edgic pick"). But who cares what they think anyway? Even when edgic gets it right they say it was because of spoilers. You're never going to be able to satisfy the skeptics, so don't even bother trying.
JFRX		#2858	[-]
Posts: 68 (11/16/08 2:22 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	For those who still seem to deny Sugar's positivity since the beginning of the season, the following is an extract from an interview with Charlie. It seems to be further evidence that the editors have gone out of their way to portray Sugar in a positive light. RNO: Corinne and others obviously had a pretty low opinion of Sugar's intelligence and ability to play the game. What did you think? Charlie: Sugar, I think she's getting the most inaccurate edit. She was very unlikable out there. She was kind of like a princess. She demanded where to sleep in the hut. She tore up our bags and would wear them as dresses without asking; she would wear our clothes without asking. She said what on her mind all the time and did what she wanted to do. That's great in real life, but in Survivor, I never felt like she stepped back and thought, "Is this fight really a strategic move? Is tearing up their bags going to piss people off?" And she aligned with the one person originally in Kota that everybody despised, Ace. I sort of wrote her off as making big errors in this game. As a viewer, she was playing the game more than I thought. But I think she was duped a lot - she goes along with the last person who talked to her. She aligned herself with the big alpha male, first Ace, then Marcus, then she clung to Matty. I think she's playing the game more than I thought she was, but I don't think she's playing the game very well.
ncassaro		#2859	[-]
Posts: 275 (11/16/08 2:23 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Casey333 wrote: It doesn't matter if Ken wins, or Matty wins, nobody outside of this thread is going to give edgic any credit anyway. So as far as the "outside world" is concerned, yes edgic is a failure this season for having picked Marcus (even though it wasn't the "official edgic pick"). But who cares what they think anyway? Even when edgic gets it right they say it was because of spoilers. You're never going to be able to satisfy the skeptics, so don't even bother trying. I don't care about skeptics though... I care about us. To me, saying, "Well, Marcus was voted out before the merge" is an easy and revisionist way out and it doesn't help edgic at all to say that. I don't care about egos, and again I'm part of the majority that said, "Marcus or bust." It doesn't hurt my ego at all to admit I was wrong. I would rather improve edgic so my ego doesn't get hurt next season.
getting real		#2860	[-]
Posts: 1346 (11/16/08 2:27 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Seems that there are two seemingly diametric views currently in Edgic circulation: Theory 1: There are two seasons in one this time around: Pre-clean slate and post-clean slate. Pre-clean slate, the Fang tribe is abominable. Post-clean slate, the Fang tribe is redeemed and Ken (or possibly Matty) wins. Sceptic, Kenny's win would be satisfying to the viewer. If he won, I'd wager that 3 of the scenes shown to kick off the reunion would be: his Episode 1geeky stumble when walking with Michelle; his his boat scene last episode; Randy confirming his evolution to manhood. Theory 2. The pre-clean slate editing has been so unusual in its anti-Fang venom that it is not possible to redeem Fang sufficiently to drive them to a win. Thus, we have a repeat of the story of last season where the arrogant, bullying tribe still ends up winning over its hapless rivals. Under this scenario, Corinne wins, provided one is prepared to, ahem, OO, overlook her INV(s). These are the only 3 winning chances. OK, if you're really stretch the bounds of credulity you can throw in Sugar, who would complete China Courtney's 'I'll show'em all' redemption edit and win as a sort compromise candidate between the 2 tribes. Everyone else can be realistically eliminated. However, the two theories needn't be mutually exclusive. As supporters of Theory 2 have pointed out, it would be naive of us to expect a straight-forward march to the finals for Fang. I agree that this season has not been edited in a way that makes such an expectation reasonable. I feel that a shake-up(s) are likely to take place, propelling some(one) in Kota towards the finals. If this happens, and Randy or Bob are involved, they will fall short. If Corinne is involved, then it may get interesting. That's the beauty about this season; it's going to be interesting whichever way you look at it. ******************* Craig said: Marcus did everything right socially and athletically up to F10, but was screwed by a somewhat unfair twist and unlucky placement in the minority. Sorry, Craig, Marcus was screwed both by not throwing challenges earlier and, especially, by his truly inept play post-fake merge. His strategy when approaching both Crystal and Suzie was some of the worst game play by a good player that I have ever seen on Survivor.

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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