S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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craig		#2761	[-]
Posts: 14307 (11/14/08 7:46 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It just occurred to me that Fang 3.0 was clearly the Complex Tribe the last two episodes. Kota went to TC, but the focus was all on Marcus trying to save himself (ep.8) and Ken individually (ep.9). No Crystal and Susie relations, or Ken and Susie, and Bob interacting with the Old Fang. Meanwhile we have Charlie\Corinne plotting to throw a challenge, Randy and Matty butting heads, Sugar's negativity towards Corinne and Randy, and rewards scenes developing the character of Corinne, Randy, etc.
unduli clone		#2762	[-]
Posts: 3312 (11/14/08 8:01 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	^ Complex tribe is so four years ago! It's a lot of hoohah over nothing. Favorites 2.0 was considered the complex tribe last year, but neither Amanda or Cirie won.
theskoffingskeptic		#2763	[-]
Posts: 6 (11/14/08 8:06 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	colleenlover wrote: [1.] Skoff (that's my abreviation) in regards to the Kota as angels and Fang as um, well the opposite... do you think some of that is based on Marcus having such an obvious winner's edit (ala Earl, Tom, Yul)? [2.] On the rewatch marathon last weekend, after Marcus left -I only noticed Sugar and Bob getting the attention of good intentions. Most of Kota was about duping Bob, and the importance of layers, and Corine admitting she hates these people. [3.] In regards to Randy -obviously he's tied to Crystal (but that is taken care of based on the last TC and could be a big component during the jury questioning)- but also he's foreshadowed to Sugar for some kind of payoff -the two inserts of Sugar's "he's an ugly person" and Randy's "rocket scientist" comment about her idol. Also, the inclusion of Sugar telling Corrine that Randy needs to go makes me think they will be involved in some head to head. Either Randy works with her and Matty after Corrine leaves making it ironic -or he's the one that falls to her idol. 1. No. Your question was "Do I think Kota was given a 'good' edit because of Marcus?" Just the opposite, in fact. I think Marcus was only given a winner's edit because he was the symbolic figurehead for "Good Kota". I doubt the editors would craft the entire Kota tribe as "good" for the sake of a misleading Marcus=winner edit. 2. Again, I disagree. Time after time, the ep recaps lauded Kota and ridiculed Fang. They must have played that scene were Corinne and Jacquie clap as Marcus catches a fish 3-4 times, because it symbolized the unity, success, etc. of "Good Kota". Also, they didn't dupe Bob. They strategized as to how they would make him the outermost layer of the Onions for numbers, with Corinne executing the coup de grâce. This is an important point, because Kota wasn't always "morally good", but they were ( almost ) always "strategically good" players. At Fang, good strategies were few and far between. When they did unfold, they were usually spearheaded by Kenny. 3. I agree with everything except the last sentence. Last Edited By: theskoffingskeptic 11/14/08 8:12 PM. Edited 2 times.
7neves7		#2764	[-]
Posts: 2789 (11/14/08 8:12 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm really not understanding the Ps for Sugar You're joking right? She was crying during tribal council and during the vote. In the early episodes she talked about her dad being dead. She has never once bashed someone in the game. She had expressed certain doubt about people, but nothing negative.
colleenlover		#2765	[-]
Posts: 8765 (11/14/08 8:13 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: I'm really not understanding the Ps for Sugar. Me too, except ep.3. She was alligned with badass Ace which I'm sure alienated lots of people (Kelly), then she's giving him the idol, then she's tricked into betraying him, now she betrays Kota. She has a thing for Matty. She's not a rational player. Could well end up like Christy or Dolly, if she's not blindsided because she has the idol. PS: She reminds me of someone that screwed my alliance in an ORG. You're confusing Sugar (the images and scenes composed together) with Sugar the person who filmed a reality show last summer. Sugar is probably a little batshit crazy, flakey, annoying, frustrating to have help you in challenges (I know I would be going nuts) but none of that matters to the storyline. I think she's overwhelmingly POSITIVE (overly manipulated) but also layered with lots of complex story layers- more so than any of the other players about the endgame. I think a lot of her negativity has been left on the cutting room floor -and I bet if she's in the final three, she gets very few votes. But production still gets their mushy ending. The conversation in episode three DID NOT have to be there -Bob and Ace, Corrine and Bob about Sugar. (Think Lex and Ethan episode two, Rob about Vecepia episode five). The conversation between Matty and Ace did not have to be shown (not about the idol) but about the final three endgame where Matty worries Sugar would use the idol and take him out (yes, I know that doesn't even make sense); We did not need to see the scene with Matty and Sugar edited in the manner that it was last episode- having each others' backs with the Burnett super hero music. (he's never subtle). We do not need to see footage of her declaring how she doesn't know how to play this game ..."But I'm learning." And she is juxtaposed by others stating either she or others are stupid -Corrine, Marcus when he throws the idol away. The Ken/Sugar arc has the most manipulation in terms of splicing the two images together- and the theme of her being perceived as dumb.
colleenlover		#2766	[-]
Posts: 8766 (11/14/08 8:18 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	and are we being good detectives or just being biased for our favorite players? I try to be as objective as possible and keep going back from the beginning and review every player's possible storyline -including Susie, Bob, the tree stump, etc. I'm willing to change with more and more evidence - ie. Corrine I was adamant that she's the most likely other final three member, but new evidence came into play. Yes, I still look at her as a suspect but I'm not just going to have blinders on. What's the point?
tropical rain		#2767	[-]
Posts: 259 (11/14/08 8:19 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm a little pressed for time, so I'll just do winner stuff. I found the ratings hard this episode... Edgic Winners: 1) Matty - He is hidden enough in the story yet has a good story. Especially being the only person totally on Fang, I think he's the best bet right now. 2) Ken - Really good edgic, but he is really visible. I'm definately not counting him out, especially after Todd. I think he has a great chance of winning. 3) Corinne - She has a story, but she's an onion! Not in the same ballpark as Matty and Ken, but she's not doing too bad (except for those INV1s...). 4) Randy - He has gotten tone on almost every episode, but he has a good story to him. Similar to Corinne. Others: ~~Bob~~ is too positive. Crystal is still in it, just not good enough to be in the top four. ~~Sugar~~ is too positive. ~~Susie~~ was too ignored early on. A great final three person though.
Plumpynut Saves		#2768	[-]
Posts: 13 (11/14/08 8:39 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ratings: Bob - CPP3 I think a OTT is a mistake. We got into his head, he showed understanding of his position in the game, and he explained the logic behind his ridiculously awesome fake idol ("sometimes you don't really have to have a real gun" or something to that effect), which makes perfect sense if there's no merge ("I have the idol, here - take a look. I'm playing it tonight, I'm voting for you Ken". It's like poker). Just contrasting it with the rest of Bob's edit should really clarify how different and more insightful Bob was tonight. Corrine - MORM3 That kid was REALLY cute. Sugar - MOR3 I suspect they couldn't make her CP because full insight into Sugar's thought process would involve the fact that Matty is her only real ally, and will thus make her vote kind of obvious. And you know, another week, another tribal council in which Sugar gets to keep her idol and is not in any danger. This girl is a survivor savant. Ken - CPM4 Tough call on his tone, but I felt the completely unnecessary gratuitous boat scene was positive and the "I need to get rid of Charlie because he unknowingly robbed me of my hard earned immunity idol that wasn't mine at all" was negative. He's lying to his alliance for the sake of it, and that's not very good. Mastermind-y, sure, but to a fault. Randy - OTTN4 God, that speech at tribal council was… unfortunate. Crystal - OTTN2 I am completely unsure about this. However, the only thing I remember is the fight at TC. Susie - UTR1 Does she only give horrific unimaginably offensive confessionals? I don't get it. Also - how disgusted was Jeff when giving her the immunity necklace? Most forced smile ever. Matty - OTTP3 He REALLY loves Gabon. Like, a lot. Charlie - MOR4 "We just let Marcus think for us!" Jesus. Winner Chances: 4. Corrine - This was the first time she was shown as playing bad Survivor. 3. Randy - The most redemptive of redemption arcs would be a hard sell at this point. And you know, the previews for next week don't seem very redemptive at all! Still a solid 3'rd for early editing trends and overall second-overthrow potential. 2. Matty - I can see the appeal, but would the winner be so out of the loop at this crucial point in the game? He was not shown talking to Sugar even though he is the closest to her (I think winner-edit in merge episodes probably take priority over voting doubt, but that's just a hunch), and he got no TC questions or end-game ties or anything (and I'm sure there were some that could have been shown). Would he and his heroic IC victory of one be completely left out of the recap? However, I realized my bouncing him back was somewhat a result of a personal bias (I… I kind of hate Matty), and he is more of possible candidate than Randy or Corrine as far as making the casual viewer feel okay with the winner. I guess I still can't get over "I'm scared Sugar will use the idol in final 3 to take me out!" How Ace did not laugh in his face is beyond me. 1. Ken - Huge episode. He got way more than his fair share of the credit in the recap (the visuals were way slanted toward him, way more than the actual text), he had that great boat scene, and Randy's telling us how he has become A Man. That's all great, but I think we wouldn't have seen some of it if Ken has an easy ride to final three, 'cause it's just too obvious. Right now, I think the best thing that can happen to Ken's winner chances in Crystal getting voted out. He's in need of some humbling and some scrambling. Also: Kenny and Matty's reunion was the funniest, most awkward, oddly-endearing little thing ever. That was full on "I wish I could quit you" voice with Kenny. Also: This is shaping up to be one of the best seasons ever. And Colleenlover is posting like 70 posts a day, with is great in its own right.
ncassaro		#2769	[-]
Posts: 267 (11/14/08 8:47 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The NOBAG tribe (I hate that name. I speak French (as does Gabon). Had I been there I would have chosen a dirty French word and told everyone it meant "peace" or something.) Bob - MORP3 - He saw himself as the bottom of the nunuKota tribe, but duh. He fashioned a fake idol, but how does that help him? If anything it helps Sugar. Not nearly enough to merit a CP, but we saw enough of him that he wasn't UTR. Charlie - MOR3 - Not much airtime for a boot episode, really. I think we didn't see too much Charlie because he honestly didn't give them enough to work with. Bit of a disappointment. Crystal - MORM3 - OK I love her because she's so freaking crazy and she makes for some great TV. But we didn't get much strategy from her. She was N at tribal but she was definitely P when congratulating Susie on her immunity win. Corinne - OTTN3 - She just insulted our Sugar. How dare she? This was the intended edit. Also, she got her answer about what Susie can do better than her. Ken - CPP4 - Loved his scenes in the woods with Sugar, and detailing why he chose to target Charlie instead of Randy or Corinne. Also, the fact that so much was made of his lie is significant to his long-term storyline. Matty - MOR3 - Matty is thrilled to be merged. Not much strategy from him though this episode. Randy - CP3 - Definitely not OTT. His detailing of why he turned on Fang at tribal was obviously a huge part of the story this season, and Randy laid it out for us from beginning to end. Sugar - CPP3 - "I feel like the lady of the hour." Sugar appears to be stupid, but isn't. This has been a huge theme. I've been rooting for her all along, but it wasn't until this episode I thought it was possible for her to win. Susie - UTR1 - Great immunity win! So, um... why did we not get a confessional about it from her or anyone? Honestly I was very impressed with it and I hadn't been impressed with Susie prior to this episode. She also caught 5 turtles on insider. Were she a winner, that would have been shown. Indeed, judging from Insider, Susie has clearly been the #1 worker bee this season and we haven't seen any of it. Winners: 1. Ken 2. Sugar Long shot: 3. Randy 4. Matty Probs not: 5. Crystal 6. Susie 7. Bob 8. Corinne Enjoying Ponderosa: 9. Charlie
colleenlover		#2770	[-]
Posts: 8767 (11/14/08 9:00 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't post ratings anymore because they just don't help me -maybe I should be expelled from edgic. I'm really only looking at threads and connections and themes. But I've watched this past episode three times and I don't get the Complex for Bob just because he went to exhile and fashioned an idol. Yes, I can see it be a game plot, but I don't see scope to the end. Now with Sugar -despite not coming into play until the second half -was nothing but sculpted and crafted. And not just because she was the swing vote, but based on how the material was presented -Charlie's voice over about her is very important that basically casts a net out through the story -"has a mind of her own and is playing this game very differently than all of us..." After she gets another sun fade out with her and Kenny, she paints the camp flag -sizing up Kenny and Crystal, and then goes even further with a strong theme that extends past the episode's end result -"Even though we're one tribe, there's definitely two sides to this ...and both sides of this blue tribe... (note the music) want my vote for a person... I have no clue what to do (the painted flag gets raised and closeup on Sugar observing) but I don't owe anything to anybody at all." Next, go rewatch council and how she's manipulated, not to mention the Corrine comments as a set-up. if I still did ratings BOB -OTTP CHARLIE- UTRN (the feast set-up) CORRINE -OTTN CRYSTAL -MOR KENNY -CP MATTY- OTTP RANDY -OTTN SUGAR -CPP SUSIE -UTR call me crazy
astroline		#2771	[-]
Posts: 1599 (11/14/08 9:09 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Initial ratings for the Nobag tribe (can't believe they fell for that shit! What a lame name!) Bob - OTTP3 (I understand this might have not been the true intent of the edit when they were actually cutting the footage, but this is the feeling it leaves you with. I wouldn't argue with CP or MOR, but this seems right to me.) Charlie - MOR3 (His story was 100% about Marcus. One of the worst-edited male edits we've seen in a long time!) Corinne - MORM3 (The M is only for the Reward. Shortest redemption arc ever.) Crystal - UTRN2 (Reminded me of Sherea's boot episode, similar to how she was invisible up until a negative outburst at TC. But it didn't even make that much of an impact, and Crystal wasn't voted out like Sherea was.) Kenny - CP4 (Leaning slightly towards N, but he had way too much insight and most of what he said was actually true.) Matty - MORP3 Randy - OTTN4 Sugar - CPP3 (I thought she was clearly P. The edits for her have been overwhelmingly positive. I have her P for every single episode so far since her INV in Episode 2.) Susie - UTRP1 (For the challenge win only. She was shown as happy winning and still at TC. The high-fiving with Matty, the "good job Kenny boy!" after he catches the fish. Susie is the fun, positive mom who can play the game but chooses to stay low and... win challenges?! Who knew!) Winners... 1. Corinne 2. Kenny 3. Matty
BlakeB717		#2772	[-]
Posts: 1109 (11/14/08 9:23 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	lol@ these random Ps for Sugar, and MOR3s for Crystal (and no offense but UTRN for Charlie cl???)
colleenlover		#2773	[-]
Posts: 8768 (11/14/08 9:32 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	yeah, I dunno. Those are old school ratings. The just keep it simple -and back in my "Never give a MOR" days. I took the UTRN intention for Charlie based on the recap grabbing the clue from Ken -and thought he was supposed to be crafted as a speed bump for Ken and his crew. And then the connection to Corrine in manipulating Sugar -I just thought the little old lady in Kansas is supposed to think, "ohhh, no -you bad people! Lying?!" His performance of keeping the unity in the reward was reported and didn't get a close-up, no manipulation. And he and Corrine are supposed to have egg on their face when seeing Marcus is voted off with Ken trumping their declaration about what defined fair. Susie is completely neglected despite winning immunity -and only appears in reported scenes. wowsa- I do post a lot now -I'm probably becoming obnoxious and will be voted out soon. Just really, really into Survivor now -you shoulda seen me back in the day.
NickF227		#2774	[-]
Posts: 5126 (11/14/08 9:34 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Well, Nobag is a horrible name but at least its a pretty shade of blue..... If I feel like it I'll post ratings later. Susieownage and Sugarownage <3. And I'm shocked and appalled you guys are putting Corrine on your winner lists. 1 INV is debatable, but 2??!?!?!? Oh my Jesus.
Casey333		#2775	[-]
Posts: 133 (11/14/08 9:36 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It's only a couple of the hardcore vadge supporters who think Corrine has any shot at winning.
tropical rain		#2776	[-]
Posts: 260 (11/14/08 9:52 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	And I'm shocked and appalled you guys are putting Corrine on your winner lists. 1 INV is debatable, but 2??!?!?!? Oh my Jesus. It's because of her story arc. I think she has a 1% chance of winning and that it's between Matty and Ken. However, I do think she is the third pick. I don't think INV1s should be the only thing they go by, though it should have a great impact.
9RedWing19		#2777	[-]
Posts: 2291 (11/14/08 10:04 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	colleenlover wrote: You're confusing Sugar (the images and scenes composed together) with Sugar the person who filmed a reality show last summer. Sugar is probably a little batshit crazy, flakey, annoying, frustrating to have help you in challenges (I know I would be going nuts) but none of that matters to the storyline. For those of you that don't consider the post-boot interviews to be spoilers, you want to check out Charlies's RNO interview comments on Sugar.
craig		#2778	[-]
Posts: 14309 (11/14/08 10:14 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Corinne had a decent ep.1 set-up, and has been a major presence in every episode she went to TC. That episode she was truly INV, she probably lost her confessional to the extra-long scene with the elephant that had little to do with character development at all. Better a winner with a INV than one on a tribe with 6 opening episodes of unrelenting negativity, who was allied with the most negative faction. I just thought the little old lady in Kansas is supposed to think, "ohhh, no -you bad people! Lying?!" I think the old lady in Kansas is sick of the black Olmpian always yelling at people at TC, and hopes she gets booted soon.
unduli clone		#2779	[-]
Posts: 3326 (11/14/08 10:29 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	^ Kenny and Matty were generally disconnected or neglected in relation to Fang's negativity. Boots Michelle, Gillian, GC, Kelly and Ace, and then Crystal carried the main weight of it, while players like Jacquie, Susie, Sugar, Matty and Kenny were left out of the negativity or ignored in relation to it for the most part. I'm still unclear why the editors banged us over the head with Kota being the god tribe, Fang sucking arse, and Marcus being the man so repeatedly, only to have the negative losers triumph and have a turn-around edit, the feel-good winners implode and burn, and Marcus getting booted as an arrogant prick. It was nice for the show and all, but I'm just confused as to why they did it in the first place.
astroline		#2780	[-]
Posts: 1601 (11/14/08 10:31 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Casey333 wrote: It's only a couple of the hardcore vadge supporters who think Corrine has any shot at winning. Examples please? I'm not a "hardcore vadge supporter" and Corinne is my #1. So who are you referring to? Blake, can you list why Sugar wasn't P then? And why she was neutral? She had quite a few positive scenes...

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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