MDN, so we were two of GC's "OTT" votes. I agree completely.
Michael
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OnlyTheHunter |
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unduli, Redwing, please don't mention "C who shall not be named" again!
MDN, so we were two of GC's "OTT" votes. I agree completely. Michael |
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JosephBlowinsky |
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OnlyTheHunter wrote:As I've said, I'm completely new to edgic and this is my first season reading this thread and I'm loving the discussion and insight.. I'm putting this question in a spoiler tag because I don't know if it's appropriate to talk about commercials for upcoming episodes giving away some stuff about the upcoming episode.. If I'm using these spoiler tags unnecessarily, go ahead and remove them if/when responding! |
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fat little fingers |
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I agree, cl. What we're listening for is the content and not the tone.
P or N doesn't affect a character's winner status unless it starts to become, "too P" or "too N". In other words, the character has flattened out into an OTTP or OTTN character. Tone really is just so much noise, while listening for what we are being told about the game. PP or NN has only one value for us and that's to shorthand someone's edit the way we use INV to write someone off the winner list. A winner can possibly survive an OTT here and there, but OTTPP or NN means they've crossed the line. This is why I balk at wanting to rush to give out NN or PP. It has little value if used too often, same as INV. |
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OnlyTheHunter |
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To, ummm, JoeBlow...I think you're on the proper track. I don't know how to do the spoiler tag thingie but we'll be sure Thurdsay night. Not
really a surprise.
I have no concern about commercials, but some would, so good call there. Start trying to rate the players each week if you haven't already and post them here, you'll have it down quickly, I'm sure. Love your avatar. Michael |
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cantthinkofaname |
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Warrior, why are you letting tone affect ratings? We're supposed to keep them separate.
And this Sugar CP/OTT debate kinda reminds me of Lydia in ep. 2. We originally had her as OTTP but changed it to CPP. (It's late so I can't think of details for this comparison or even if it is that similar) Well goodnight everyone. |
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craig |
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Is CC really banned? I loved her. I thought she was banned but came back.Yes, CC was banned by Mister Slippery during BB8. Supposedly permanently (not just one nic). |
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Cassidy666 |
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Reading over the last few pages, I have one (pedantic) comment. FLF, it's Charlie, not Charley. He doesn't have a
mouse called Algernon.
I agree completely with CL about the looking at what can be changed to give a character a better edit for a winner or at least someone who has an overall impact on the game in the long run. It's also something I pay attention to. For instance, we could have gotten a comment from Bob about Corinne's approach but we didn't (and we have already seen he wasn't shy about commenting on Ace). Instead we saw it from Corinne's POV, and the foundation for it was clearly shown over the first two episodes. It's an important development, but mainly for Corinne, and not really for the other onions since she's the only one who's talked to him. It's interesting people are wary of giving too hasty a negative tone rating when things are not so clear cut. (As has been the case with Todd and Parvati.) I like OTH's very nice concise reasoning since what we've been shown clearly parallels what Corinne says. I think the same goes for Randy. He's been negative but at the same time, he hasn't been proven wrong about his tribe when the edit shows he's likely more right than wrong. His story will have a major impact I think everyone agrees the main contenders towards the end are going to be Marcus, Charlie and Corinne from Kota. But how did the winner's story begin? Was it Marcus and Charlie at the start who brought together the onions? Or was that just the jumping off point to introduce Corinne and Charlie, with Marcus falling somewhere short of the end? Either way, for now it comes off looking like Charlie is more of a supporting character to either Corinne or Marcus, emphasizing their story arc. Another point I liked that was brought up was Marcus's fake t.ear. It was such a small thing and yet it's a false note in the Marcus the good doctor storyline that we're expecting. Whether it really is foreshadowing or not, we'll have to see. |
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Just wanted to mention now - I am seeing my kids this weekend. I will have time to watch the episode at some point but doubt I will post much from Thursday
evening through Sunday night at the earliest, maybe Monday morning. I am afraid I'll miss the deadline, I'll try not too, but I will post ratings here
in case close calls emerge.
Michael |
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fat little fingers |
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Cassidy, just to add: Charlie's been a supporting actor for both
Marcus and Corinne. He's been shown in one-on-one meetings with both and
has given enthusiastic positive comments about them both.
Last week I saw Randy as making cynical, but accurate comments about his tribe. But this time his comments were shown to be wrong. His impossibly stupid, hopeless tribe won back-to-back immunities. And he started his trash talk by saying he sees no way for him to win, because of how stupid his loser tribe is. This is an excuse that pushes blame somewhere than on himself. (Like coughCrystalcough.) He was definitely, completely N this time. Marcus' tear: It was definitely meant to give him an N moment, and a bit of a shocker, when contrasted with his straight-arrow talk on the pier. A shocker because it has no context. There's somethings about Marcus we haven't yet been shown. Good or bad for him? I think unexplained is never good if it lasts too long. edited to make sense. Randy was wrong this episode.
Last Edited By: fat little fingers
10/07/08 3:53 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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unduli clone |
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Cassidy666 wrote:I have to disagree with this one. It's possible that Randy will have impact in the scheme of things, but I don't think that's why he's been utilized thus far. Consider the other members of his tribe and their view on the tribe; Randy is being presented as the mouth of Fang because the tribe is being edited not as underdogs, but as underperformers. The tribe has been presented in a negativity-tinged light, and Randy's curmudgeon-y confessionals are the perfect way to emphasize his tribe's position. Randy could go far and could make waves in the game, but I think he's only been used to further the edit of Fang, and not his own personal edit. I'm excited that so many are seeing potential in Corinne. I fear that she'll randomly crop up an INV1 episode and we'll be stuck with "Marcus wins, no other contenders" but hopefully we have a good race in determining who the winner is and don't end up with another Fiji. |
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Kirblar |
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A point to consider- Randy's likely the only person on the tribe who is criticizing the tribe greatly in confessionals. I think he's being used here because he's giving them the material to tell the story they want to tell about pre-swap Fang. |
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unduli clone |
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Kirblar wrote:Exactly. Not sure if we will get a swap (it's highly likely, considering they've done or offered some sort of mix-up for every season after Africa except for Palau), but that was my thoughts exactly: Randy is representing the point of view that the editors are giving us on Fang. He is not being given an edit about himself, he's being given the edit of Fang. This is exactly why I never got on the Tracy-wagon. Her first episode was not an edit for herself, but one to further the fans versus favorites storyline and especially JFP, if I recall correctly. This is a major distinction that should be made in Edgic. When is the edit about the individual, and when is it about the greater story, the episode arc, or other characters? It's often hard to determine, but I think it's clear-cut in Randy's case. While he may be injecting some of his personality and thoughts into his confessionals, practically every confessional of his is highlighting Fang's ineptitude and is tied directly into the storyline of Fang, not his own story. Charlie is precariously close to that same territory, which is why he's a distant third behind Marcus and Corinne in my mind. His edit seems to be more of a support to Marcus and Corinne than as his own personal edit, and that worries me. |
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scepticA |
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flf, re Marcus' tear. It was relayed directly to Ace, and I basically thought it was designed to keep Ace comfy in his worldview of his position in the
game. He's being edited as Cocky Guy Who Is Clueless, and both Charlie/ey and Marcus are feeding this by making him think he's in control.
It wasn't the nicest of things to do, sort of like rubbing forefinger/thumb together (world's smallest violin), but I put it on the same level as Aras's early bit of arrogance. |
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9RedWing19 |
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unduli clone wrote: |
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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I think a lot of assumptions are being made about what we are supposed to think of the Fang tribe. So far, counting three episodes, it has gotten primarily
negative editing once, pretty mixed editing once, and primarily positive editing once with the order creating an arc from negative to positive. If there is a
swap (and I thought the promos have basically given that away), then pre-swap Fang as an entity doesn't really exist anymore so what lesson are we supposed
to take from the editing?
I don't believe that we are supposed to be rooting against the Fang tribe members except of course for GC. Not only has the editing for the Fang tribe been getting generally more positive, but none of the other remaining members (except Randy) have been presented negatively. What we have been shown, however, suggests that Fang members will not necessarily stick together in a swap. For good or bad, the much more organized Kotas will likely take charge of the new tribes. Does that doom the Fangs? Likely, it will doom most of them, but the Kotas aren't entirely unified either so I'm not ready to write them all off. Randy is clearly a special case, but to what end? At the moment, I'm inclined to consider him a distraction that won't approach the end game and may not even make the merge. However, his disassociation with his tribe could prove very important. Could he play the role of Judd and betray the members of his former tribe? It'll be interesting to watch and find out. The Onion Alliance, or most of it, will probably survive the swap period intact given its clear importance to the game. However, note that none of its core members are being portrayed positively - at best they are neutral. Marcus' fake tear is a big hint in my mind that we're not really intended to be rooting for them. I know people have disagreed with the N I saw for Corinne in her discussion with Bob, and I'm not going to fight too hard this week considering I watched without sound, but basically the juxtaposition of her conversation with her confessional emphasized the point - she's falsely leading Bob on. (It doesn't even matter that her specific words are careful to avoid too much commitment - the impression is what is important.) With Bob getting that opening OTTP edit, I think that is clearly intended negative. Don't read too much into this, however. Negative editing doesn't mean that Marcus or Corinne can't win - at the moment, they still have to be seen as the best two options. It just means we may not be intended to root for them along the way. Three other Kotas will be interesting to watch come the swap. Only two Kota players have gotten clearly positive editing - Bob and Sugar. Bob is supposedly the swing vote of the Onion Alliance, but we haven't been given his perspective yet. I think he will survive the swap primarily because it wouldn't matter if he was the swing vote otherwise. He really could go a long ways in the game, but we all know OTTP type players don't win. Sugar has the immunity idol so she probably will stick around awhile, but her only attachment we've been shown is with Ace. How does she play the swap? Would she be a target of former Fang members? If her story is the idol, it could get resolved fairly quickly. Then, of course, there is Ace - he'll have no qualms about leading a swap tribe, but how will the former Fangs react to him? I expect that to come to a head pre-merge one way or the other. |
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fat little fingers |
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Unduli, You can't separate the character from what he/she says. It cuts both ways when Randy knocks his tribe mates. And he's negative this ep for this confessional:
"I want to win, but...this tribe is stupid...complete idiots."Yes, he's done a good job of painting his tribe as losers, but we also have lots of other scenes and camera isolations that back his charges up. But, this time he's talking about himself and it's the second negative comment about his game-play. First he told us he was going to sit back and let his tribe destroy itself. This time he's already giving us excuses for why he'll lose. scep: This is where I see Marcus' edit having a big weakness for a winner. He was never given an opportunity to tell us his thoughts this ep. You've had to project your own interpretation on his undefined action. There was nothing to back your interpretation over mine. Whereas, Corinne gets the first TC answer to explain why she switched from going after Ace to Paloma. |
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Phoenix1269 |
Voting deadline - Monday @ 7 PM MST | ||
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Voting Deadline Extension for Episode 4
since this weekend (Monday) is Canadian Thanksgiving, and I will be travelling to my Dad's for part of the weekend... I've extended the voting deadline til Monday Night. I've put 7:00 pm... but really... it will likely be closer to 8:00 pm by the time i get home and settled from all the driving, etc. OTH... have a blast with your kids! (and you'll still have time to vote if you want!) |
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Phoenix1269 |
Voting deadline - Monday @ 7 PM MST | ||
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double post
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Yeah for Canadian holidays I don't know about 'cause I'm a dumb 'merrican! Thanks, Phoenix.
Michael |
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Phoenix1269 |
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no problem! |
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